Do NOT buy Native Instruments software.

[m127]

deleted by user

[boosh]

If you posts stuff like this be a man and publish your own name.

 

Even in the Netherlands which hasn't got a SUE-Culture you can get sued if you post stuff about people or companies like this.

 

You have to back up everything and proof they are a lousy company.

 

I haven't heard Native Instruments side of the story and certainly don't give credit to someone who has only posted 4 posts on a forum.

 

Boosh

[ultravibe]

I'm with boosh - less rant, more explanation would go a long way, though. Telling someone what they should believe makes for a hard conversion. Giving them a story that helps them toward believing is a much better tactic.

[monstermaker]

Their security measures are a headache but I've had great responses to the few problems I've had.

[Guest Guest]

If you posts stuff like this be a man and publish your own name. Even in the Netherlands which hasn't got a SUE-Culture you can get sued if you post stuff about people or companies like this. You have to back up everything and proof they are a lousy company. I haven't heard Native Instruments side of the story and certainly don't give credit to someone who has only posted 4 posts on a forum. Boosh

 

These internets is serious bidness in teh Netherlands...

[boosh]

 

I believe it is important that others know this story just to make an informed decision before spending their hard earned money on NI products.

 

 

Your story lacks information.

 

Maybe your a complete computer nitwit and the NI helpdesk can't get through to your thick brain?

 

Maybe the guys of the NI helpdesk are complete nitwits and you can't connect to theirs?

 

What is the big problem? Maybe your PC is so full of spywarecrap and other installed {censored} things just don't work??

 

I don't know your story and thus cannot say who's fault it is.

 

If I had a company and someone was really pissed and started spamming forums and stuff I'd ban him from my website also.

 

I'm sorry you NI stuff don't work but I can't back you nor NI because although I'm doing a lawstudy right now I'm not that experienced to wear the shoes of a judge.

 

When you publish this little info about the problem and the things NI did to solve it you can't warn people or try to stop them from buying NI stuff.

 

 

It's like shouting at guys drinking Heineken beer to STOP because you get the {censored}s from it each time you drink it.

The guys won't stop drinking but offer you a beer instead because they wanna see you crap your pants.

 

Booshy

 

 

I'm not attacking you,... merely saying that it is wiser and in NI's and your interest to solve the problem in a good way. Future customers of NI will benefit of that also.

 

Just document every email they send you and transcribe every phonecall.

That will help you if you ever need to get your money back.

[thunderpuppy]

My problem with this rant is this:

 

 

While the quality of the sound is good, they chose a product activation/registration method that has proven to be a headache for hundreds of customers, and the worst thing is that their tech support is just unable to even handle the related problems, simply because the system configuration variables this method is based on are endless, and, regretfully, they are too stubborn to admit it.

 

 

The only think I know about NI's grievous wrongdoing is that you're having "activation problems," and that it's a headache for hundreds of other customers. I'm not entirely sure what's going wrong... You can't install? You can't register? I understand you're calling for a full-scale boycott of NI, but you never told us what wasn't working, or why you feel cheated. For someone who's owned Komplete 2, 3, 4 and Kore... what's gone wrong just now? What changed?

 

(if this is an "upgraded to Vista" problem, I think you're really jumping the gun)

 

While I'm not thrilled with many, many companies' software registration/protection setups, I've usually been able to muscle through any setup problems I had and get my software running (dongles are my biggest complaint, but whaddaya gonna do?)-- If I were to boycott every company with difficult registration, I'd still be running ADATs and rack gear.

 

Anyway, if a product isn't working for you (and, if I'm reading this post right, you shelled out two grand for one of the NI packages), and the company says "sorry it's not working for you, here's your money back," this is what triggers your righteous indignation? I've bought lots of gear over time that has either failed, never worked in the first place, didn't perform as advertised, or simply didn't meet my needs, and when the company offers me my money back and apologizes for my time, I consider them solid gentlemen and trustworthy businessmen. I'm reassured by the people who part with me honorably, with a full refund, if their product doesn't work for me.

[zenchin]

You say NI couldn't figure out the problem and as a result, gave back your money....or are about to give back your money. So from a money angle with this problem, your investment is zero.

 

Additional to that, you say you have posted to their forums ...I believe you used the term "whined" ...in such a way as for them to ban you.

 

NI is giving you your money back, yet you feel ripped off.

 

If I were NI, I probably also would've "fired" you as a customer.

[sonik]

I have Komplete 3 and Kore. It should be upgraded to Komplete 4 (through there komplete care package which I purchased) by now but their customer service has failed me.

 

NI stuff sounds great, however their activation/security system is a total nightmare.

 

Kore on the other hand is a total piece of {censored} that was rush released, buggy as hell and well in general is just junk.

 

For all the problems I have had with NI I will not be purchasing their products again and can not in good conscious recommend them.

 

 

As for the original posters statements, I tend to believe them.

 

It's all rather unfortunate.

[nat whilk II]

I've got Komplete 2, and gone through a half-dozen re-installs due to changing computers or re-installing the OS, etc.

 

The installation/activation/registration process is kinda funky and can be confusing. It's not bug-free. But even 'tho I had some frustrating episodes, I always managed to get everything up and running eventually.

 

I emailed NI a time or two - they always responded, but their responses were not always on point, that's for sure. Their most frequent response was "try again".

 

But I can't help but wonder why your setup should be totally resistant to working...

 

I have a pretty decent knack for solving odd XP/PC issues simply 'cause I started out with DOS 1.1 and an 8088 and have accrued many miles of experience between then and now. But the number of variables involved are daunting, and a perfectly responsible software company can get stumped doing the over-the-phone or email support dance.

 

I can't help but wonder if you started over, wiped everything clean, re-installed your OS, and followed the latest procedures, if you could be right up and running. For all the time and learning curve you've already invested, it would be worth trying if you haven't already taken that route. Not to mention your computer will probably run much better overall.

 

I'm sympathetic, but also a tiny bit sceptical....

 

nat whilk ii

[ew_]

Oh my... this again.

 

Let's start with your original thread in the NI forums, shall we?

http://www.nativeinstruments.de/forum_us/showthread.php?t=48415

 

Now, let's move to the thread over at KVR ;

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=178195

 

Shall we include SOS for good measure?

http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=459905&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#459905

 

ew

[Rabid]

Judging from this quote from the NI forum ...

 

... Can you believe at all that after 5 months, this guy in NI USA "support" asked me to switch to Firefox among other **** that, at least in theory, should not have anything to do with a VST. And believe me, even though I am incredibly pissed off, still my answer was "Firefox installed". Now he wants my phone number. I tell him I prefer to keep the emailing. Do you know what his answer was?: "Please reply with your phone number and some times when its best for you." I mean, can their personnel read at all???? ...

 

It seems you don't do much software troubleshooting. I had to use Firefox to place an order with SoundsOnLine last week because my install of IE suddendly decided it does not like the web site. Trying another browser should have been an easy and credible test for your verfication problems. Talking to someone is also a logical step. You can get more done in 10 minutes with an expert than 5 months through email.

 

I'm sorry about your problems, but you seem like one of those difficult customers that a company is better off doing without. Seriouslly. I would not want you as a customer.

[bp]

Time to quit bitchin. We get it. You don't like NI.

[deanmass]

Well, I certainly don't behoove anyone a healthy rant now and then ( )..

 

My suggestion?

 

Fresh HD, fresh install of OS, fresh install of NI stuff, and nothing else. Don't even attach the old drive.

 

It sounds to me like you have serious OS/virus/gunk issues. Spend $50 on a new HD, give it a shot. Since you have already gone through all this grief seems like a fresh install just to rule it all out would be worth it. And, even after that, it might be a hardware issue.

 

Sounds like that company needs to re-work their tracking and activation procedures. Almost everything I have ever used with a hard core key based activation has SUCKED. One problem, and the wheels come off. I have no experience with this particular brand, but past experience tends to lead me to think most of what the dude is mad about is probably valid. I tend to think if they will disable a product with an upgrade/expansion due to a key problem, the company bears the responsibility to track the rightful owner and speedily re-activate.

[ultravibe]

I have to say that this brings up my feelings on complicated piracy/authentication issues - and this goes for a lot of companies: Stop it. You are punishing customers. Pirates can download cracks of your software off of bittorrent 2 days after it is released and have fewer problems than your paying customers. Put the anti-piracy software coding money into prosecuting pirates.

 

That said, you do seem kinda high strung, m127.

[alphajerk]

2 days? 2 hours... sometimes 2 days BEFORE its released to the public.

 

all this CP is just retarded anymore.

 

and i had a similar problem with US robotics once getting the same response he posted that NI gave about spreading my gripe about the company. i think that sucks for a company to say, especially if you paid big bucks for the product... shame on them.

 

although from your post, i have NO IDEA what your complaint IS except that it wont authorize? i cant imagine why a product wouldnt. while the thread is an expression of your frustration with a company, and i can certainly understand that frustration it might be helpful to type your exact problem you are having and someone here might have figured said problem out. i find tech support for companies miserable at best, even worse if they are speaking indiamerican. maybe someone here might be able to get you up and running.

[Anderton]

I skimmed the NI forum thread. From what I understand, m127 is using Windows Media Center, whose problems with a huge variety of music software have been well-documented in this and other forums. (Although from what I understand, it IS possible to make fundamental changes to the OS that make it more suitable for music.) Also, changing hardware with copy protection systems is a problem, as is installing over two computers, which NI said you did. As to support, if support wants to contact you by phone (and I agree that sometimes it's essential; the toughest problems I've ever experienced were solved only by phone, as one can communicate much more information much faster than email, and it's possible to ask follow-up questions instantly), then saying that support sucks when they offer to call you, and you don't take them up on that offer, is perplexing. And the comment about being concerned that it might be some gay guy who really wants your phone number...I don't think that the people at NI are into gay phone sex on tech support lines. And I bet if someone was, they'd be fired.

 

As someone who reviews software, I have encountered a zillion problems involving a zillion manufacturers and their software. Eventually, they all got resolved, or I found a workaround. Only in one case could I not use a certain piece of software (not from a major manufacturer) nor could they offer any solution.

 

As to NI, I find their software registration inconvenient UNTIL my computer dies and I need to re-install on new hardware. Then I just go to the web site, kill the old registration, and open up a new one. The only problems I've had were occasional server problems on their end when the system simply wasn't there, or internet problems on my end where I couldn't access the server. Neither one ever lasted more than a day. So far, I've been able to install and use all the NI software I have.

 

As to how they are as a company, I know there was some problem with an upgrade not arriving as promised and NI made up for it by giving some bonus to customers...I don't know the details, I just remember reading on the forum about how some people were upset with NI but considered the "make good" a satisfactory solution. If you have a really serious problem, there's not much more that a company can do then say "Here's your money back, we're sorry" unless you want to sue them, and in that case your case would probably be thrown out the minute you said "Well they wanted to call me to solve the problem, but I wouldn't give them my number."

 

Anyway, I realize that just answering this will cause me to sink further into the quagmire, but hey...it's my job!

 

Bottom line: Apparently some people have problems with NI, and lots of others don't. Someone who hates NI has posted a thread here and in numerous other places, because apparently part of being busy 25 hours a day is spending lots of time online So - your complaint has been registered. We all know where you stand. Message received. We get it. You're unhappy.

[Anderton]

it might be helpful to type your exact problem you are having and someone here might have figured said problem out. i find tech support for companies miserable at best, even worse if they are speaking indiamerican. maybe someone here might be able to get you up and running.

 

I always use "SSS Tech Support" before contacting a manufacturer, it comes through most of the time and I usually get an answer within 24 hours

[Jon Gnash]

.

Is that really true?

 

No kidding.

 

I haven't read the other threads. But I can

[temnov]

OK, it's me, sorry if I'm ruined your day.

 

I bought Komplete 3 and I loved that. I installed that on the custom-made ADK computer and didn't have any troubles until they changed their activation system. After that I had a small problem with updates but it was fixed almost on spot after my e-mail to them.

 

Last fall I updated to Komplete 4, and I just got a Massive. Since Komplete 4 I've never had any problems with activation and update. Zero. It is one from the best updating services I dealt with - for me, of course.

 

I have a number of good native plugins, UAD-1, LiquidMix, had Duende, too. I'm mostly ITB. So, point is - NI was one from the easiest to activate and update. Why? Probably because my system is a specially build machine, XP pro based, never online except when I need to activate a software. I think it is the reason why it's working. I had pretty bad experience with my another computer, which I built myself. Looks like if you want your system stable - ask people who know how to make it right.

 

I think Scott (ADK guy) mentioned that Craig also uses or used their machine, too.

 

My 2c.

[ew_]

OK; I'll speak up.

 

I have almost everything NI's put out. I've had some issues occasionally (hey, it's software after all), but for the vast majority of the time it works wonderfully well.

 

It's why I moderate four of their forums (I'm not an employee of NI's); I like their products and they work.

 

ew

[boosh]

What I find truely annoying is that every time another forum decides to close this same thread the initial poster starts a new thread on a new forum and the main players move along with him.

 

I don't like this flaming war expecially because the main character doesn't post under his real name but keeps naming and pointing at NI-Employees and posting their names.

 

I think NI did everything they could to help him but instead he is rude and a major pain in the ass.

 

They promissed to give him his money back after he refused to give his phone# so they could really help him.

 

He doesn't listen to others but only keeps moaning and stirring up {censored}.

 

Please close this thread before all the other assholes from the other forums come in and the whole thing starts over again here.

 

Oh yeah,... I don't work for NI. In fact I hardly use their stuff,... only Guitar Rig.

 

Booshy

[Lakisha]

 

Wow!! How powerful with a millionaire company behind him against a defenseles customer.

 

Yo Yo, if you postin all over the internet, you hardly "a defenseles customer."

 

I usually dont side with the company against the little guy, but theres somethin about your post and I caint quite put my finger on it but theres somethin about it that just tells me you a little bitch and I feel sorry for NI to hafta put up with you.

 

Ive never been a big fan a NI, but after readin your post, I have now decided that Im now a NI fan.

[Rabid]

... As to how they are as a company, I know there was some problem with an upgrade not arriving as promised and NI made up for it by giving some bonus to customers...I don't know the details, I just remember reading on the forum about how some people were upset with NI but considered the "make good" a satisfactory solution. ...

 

Because there was not much benifit of owning Komplete Care 2006 NI decided to give those people a free update to Komplete 4. Then there was a problem with the US release and shipment for owners of Komplete Care 2006. I think it had more to do with the manufacturer that prints and boxes the disks than with NI. We first got a credit to use in the NI store. After another delay the credit was extended to a year before it must be used AND we got the new Massive synth free. Because we have up to a year to spend the credit I can save my credit to put towards the upgrade to Komplete 5. Hopefully.

 

So, Komplete Care 2006 never got much of anything for their purchase, then we got a free update to Komplete 4, then a free copy of Massive, plus a store credit and a year to use it.

[seclusion]

Yes, Issue #1 comes up, tech call, maybe a forum browse usually covers 90% of all issues regarding CP etc. Issue #2 arises, same as above...

Issue #3 I have to assume there is a bug of some sort in the system.

Helpful hint #1

For me I've always done an image backup so I'm back up in 30 minutes or less.

So I've learned the hard way around Waves, GS3 and NI that if I do any sort of update, before I do... Notice I said before I do an update I do an incremental update of my current operating system. Then I update... Cross fingers and hope that I can continue with the added fixes and breaks that the update covers... Anyone who operates a DAW, plugs and softsynths should follow this advise. Anyone who decides to update their system without following the above has just added the dreaded "oh no what have I done" syndrom.

Helpful hint #2 before I purchase a computer, update a computer I first gather information. OS choice, ram, CPU, Mobo on an on all have an inpact on a stable Daw. I will not purchase any prebuilt off the shelf system for my Daw. Fortunately for me I am able to build my system faily cheep reusing older solid parts from the old computer. This has worked great for me over 2 systems now. Any issues I've had I've been able to diagnose in one music forum or another. I will not use Vista in my Daw yet, this time next year? maybe. Windows Media Center is just like Windows Me was, a transition OS that MS used customers to beta for them.

Helpful hint #3

I'd guess that 95% of the people working at these help desks etc are all aspiring musicians as ourselves and if I had someone ramming me expecting, prodding s%it disturbing, I'd tune you out as well and if I was in support I'd be giving you bogus help just to get you off the phone...

Take it or leave it, you have to be responsible for you're system...

Later