Members Trick Fall Posted May 12, 2007 Members Share Posted May 12, 2007 I never had much success using eq and as I've recorded more I've really tried focusing on eq'ing at the source. Trying to get everything to blend without having to massage it. Now I've used some more surgical type eq's that have helped mitigate a problem, but for the first time I've used an eq that really made me feel like it improved a mix or a sound. This eq was the joe meek something or other that came with a pro tools plug in pack that I bought. So now I'm curious, for as little bones as possible what other eq might float my boat? I wish digi and other plug in makers would make more low end stuff. I'd be much more like to buy three 99.00 processors and experiment than to buy one 300.00 dollar plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members halljams Posted May 12, 2007 Members Share Posted May 12, 2007 I never had much success using eq and as I've recorded more I've really tried focusing on eq'ing at the source. Trying to get everything to blend without having to massage it. Now I've used some more surgical type eq's that have helped mitigate a problem, but for the first time I've used an eq that really made me feel like it improved a mix or a sound. This eq was the joe meek something or other that came with a pro tools plug in pack that I bought. So now I'm curious, for as little bones as possible what other eq might float my boat? I wish digi and other plug in makers would make more low end stuff. I'd be much more like to buy three 99.00 processors and experiment than to buy one 300.00 dollar plug. Voxengo gliss Eq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Trick Fall Posted May 12, 2007 Author Members Share Posted May 12, 2007 Voxengo gliss Eq Thanks, but alas I am on a mac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cry Logic Posted May 12, 2007 Members Share Posted May 12, 2007 Thanks, but alas I am on a mac. Crysonic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lowbasslowbass Posted May 13, 2007 Members Share Posted May 13, 2007 +1 for Voxengo Gliss Eq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted May 13, 2007 Moderators Share Posted May 13, 2007 I like the Meek too for some stuff. The Massey 3 band is pretty cool and it's free in full functioning demo mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted May 13, 2007 Members Share Posted May 13, 2007 When it comes to EQ, I actually use it to take out frequencies, rather than add them. This is thinking backwards because we tend to want to add things. Taking freqs out will add headroom to your mixes and will make the instruments sounds more natural. As with any processing, less is more, unless you are going for a specific effect. EB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lakisha Posted May 13, 2007 Members Share Posted May 13, 2007 When it comes to EQ, I actually use it to take out frequencies, rather than add them. This is thinking backwards because we tend to want to add things. Taking freqs out will add headroom to your mixes and will make the instruments sounds more natural. As with any processing, less is more, unless you are going for a specific effect. EB That answer is so wack I can hardly believe it. With all do respec. And I reconize that that is the "conventional wisdom" so you not sayin anything thats supposed to get anyone all worked up in fact jess the opposite. Thats supposed to get people nodding they heads and saying "you wise and experienced mofo." but you want the truth? Canyou handle the truth? The truth is thats a bunch of bogus mofo B.S. The truth is you use EQ any damn way you want. You take out some here. You add some here. You do nothing here. Thats how you should use it, not some tried n true conventional wisdom "oh I only take out stuff never add never too much." That kinda conventional wisdom really makes my blood boil. No offense again. The real deal is DO ANYTHING YOU DAMN PLEASE WITH YOUR DAMN EQ. Theres plenty of headroom unless you livin in a box no pun intended. I jus heard a albuum from someone that mighta been saved if they jus took the EQ and boosted the {censored} out of it. Instead conventional wisdom, and now its all boring and flat. Maybe the guy read some wise message on a music forum and thought OK I'll do that, jus take a little out here n there. So back to a actual EQ. Need something creamy on a mac? You could do worse than PSP neon and masterQ. Believe me baby, download and thank me in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted May 13, 2007 Members Share Posted May 13, 2007 Lakisha,You`re too funny! Use what works my friend.EB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted May 13, 2007 Members Share Posted May 13, 2007 When it comes to EQ, I actually use it to take out frequencies, rather than add them. This is thinking backwards because we tend to want to add things. Taking freqs out will add headroom to your mixes and will make the instruments sounds more natural. As with any processing, less is more, unless you are going for a specific effect. EB I do that a lot too, but I also will boost - a lot, if necessary. Doing all of one of these approaches (IOW, doing nothing but boosting or nothing but dipping)...I dunno, I don't tend to get as excited about my mixes as much. Boosting all the time, to my ear, sounds hideous. Obviously, the best thing to do (assuming that you want things to sound natural) is to get it as close as possible at the source to begin with, using EQ to sculpt and shape and mix rather than "fixing" stuff, often even if you are doing odd or experimental music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted May 13, 2007 Moderators Share Posted May 13, 2007 Lakisha leftErnest rightKen down the middle! I like the sound of a snare where I've painstakingly notched out the resonances and boosted the level back up. Natural and hifi sounding. DigiIII is fine for this. I also like a snare where I've boosted the piss out of the highs and lows and it sounds totally unnatural. The Meek, BF Pultec and the Massey work well for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members digibird Posted May 14, 2007 Members Share Posted May 14, 2007 That answer is so wack I can hardly believe it. With all do respec. And I reconize that that is the "conventional wisdom" so you not sayin anything thats supposed to get anyone all worked up in fact jess the opposite. Thats supposed to get people nodding they heads and saying "you wise and experienced mofo." but you want the truth? Canyou handle the truth? The truth is thats a bunch of bogus mofo B.S. . Actually, that was not BS, and EB made a valid point. Subtractive EQ, when used correctly, can be a very effective approach. It is often preferable to additive EQ, especially concerning headroom in a mix. All frustrations with EQ can be greatly reduced if you are lucky enough to get your hands on a really good hardware EQ, like the EL Lil' Freq or the Great River EQ2NV. Then you just turn knobs and smile. It sounds so good you'll feel like a genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted May 14, 2007 Moderators Share Posted May 14, 2007 All frustrations with EQ can be greatly reduced if you are lucky enough to get your hands on a really good hardware EQ, like the EL Lil' Freq or the Great River EQ2NV. Then you just turn knobs and smile. It sounds so good you'll feel like a genius. Yeah, that really is the new frontier when it comes to digital. Getting that thing that great analog eqs have, but in software form. It's definately not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Extreme Mixing Posted May 14, 2007 Members Share Posted May 14, 2007 Actually, that was not BS, and EB made a valid point. Subtractive EQ, when used correctly, can be a very effective approach. It is often preferable to additive EQ, especially concerning headroom in a mix. That's not really true in the box. It takes just as much processing and headroom to cut, as to boost with plugins. There are two types of EQ. Creative and corrective. I use them both. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ethan Winer Posted May 14, 2007 Members Share Posted May 14, 2007 The truth is you use EQ any damn way you want. It's a floor wax and a desert topping. I posted the blurb below elsewhere recently, and it applies here too. --Ethan There are a few common problems that people use EQ to solve. One is overall lack of brightness, and in that case EQ shelving boost is the most direct solution. Another is overall low frequency muddiness, and for that an EQ LF shelving cut or high-pass is appropriate. More common IMO is what people sometimes call "surgical" use of EQ - to reduce offensive resonances. Often when something sounds not bright enough the real culprit is a nasal or boxy sounding midrange resonance. When you find and reduce that resonance, all of the sudden the sound becomes brighter and cleaner and often fuller by comparison. So it's not that cutting is generally preferred to boosting, or vice versa, but rather simply identifying the real problem. I'd say that identifying and squashing offensive resonances is one of the more important skills for a mixing or mastering engineer to develop. I'll also add that cutting resonances is best done with narrow (high Q) settings, but for boosting a shelving or broad shape is better. Otherwise you're adding resonance which is often obnoxious. Unless of course you want a resonance. The other day I recorded myself playing a Djembe. I'm not much of a drummer, and my touch is not very good. So I didn't get enough of that cool ringing tone Djembes are known for. So I swept an EQ and found the fundamental pitch, then boosted that a few dB with a very high Q. Voila, then I had a nice round tone. --Ethan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members digibird Posted May 14, 2007 Members Share Posted May 14, 2007 That's not really true in the box. It takes just as much processing and headroom to cut, as to boost with plugins. There are two types of EQ. Creative and corrective. I use them both.Steve Using subtractive EQ does not reduce headroom. My statement did not concern processing power in a computer, but the effect of subtractive and additive EQ on a mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted May 14, 2007 Members Share Posted May 14, 2007 All frustrations with EQ can be greatly reduced if you are lucky enough to get your hands on a really good hardware EQ, like the EL Lil' Freq or the Great River EQ2NV. Then you just turn knobs and smile. It sounds so good you'll feel like a genius. I wish....I'd like to have that Great River and a Manley Massive Passive. $$. If only people would give those away simply because I was charming and good-looking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted May 14, 2007 Members Share Posted May 14, 2007 Sorry everyone, I should have clarified it with my original post. When I was talking subtractive EQ, I was talking analog. Come on, read my mind! Peace, EB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 That answer is so wack I can hardly believe it. With all do respec. And I reconize that that is the "conventional wisdom" so you not sayin anything thats supposed to get anyone all worked up in fact jess the opposite. Thats supposed to get people nodding they heads and saying "you wise and experienced mofo." but you want the truth? Canyou handle the truth? The truth is thats a bunch of bogus mofo B.S. The truth is you use EQ any damn way you want. You take out some here. You add some here. You do nothing here. Thats how you should use it, not some tried n true conventional wisdom "oh I only take out stuff never add never too much." That kinda conventional wisdom really makes my blood boil. No offense again. The real deal is DO ANYTHING YOU DAMN PLEASE WITH YOUR DAMN EQ. Theres plenty of headroom unless you livin in a box no pun intended. I jus heard a albuum from someone that mighta been saved if they jus took the EQ and boosted the {censored} out of it. Instead conventional wisdom, and now its all boring and flat. Maybe the guy read some wise message on a music forum and thought OK I'll do that, jus take a little out here n there. So back to a actual EQ. Need something creamy on a mac? You could do worse than PSP neon and masterQ. Believe me baby, download and thank me in the morning. Sure, use EQ however it works for you. But his response wasn't bogus BS. It makes a lot of sense in many ways. First of all, the mindset change isn't hard to do. Instead of thinking "what do I want to add / what does this sound need more of?", ask yourself "what does this sound have too much of / what do I need to pull out?" Adding a shelving treble EQ to a sound, or cutting bass with a shelf EQ basically give you similar results... but one is more likely to result in audible phase shifts, an overloaded channel / signal path and increased hiss and noise. I'm not saying I don't ever use EQ to boost frequencies. However, you do have to be aware of the ramifications of what you're doing, and boosting is generally more "invasive" and has more side effects than cutting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 I wish....I'd like to have that Great River and a Manley Massive Passive. $$. If only people would give those away simply because I was charming and good-looking... Well, if they were passing them out for free based on charm and good looks, I'd still have to bust out the wallet, and probably would have to pay extra. Okay, maybe not if they were giving them away if you're good looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted May 15, 2007 Members Share Posted May 15, 2007 Phil, Don`t sell yourself short. Bald is beautiful.Peace,EB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted May 15, 2007 Members Share Posted May 15, 2007 Well, if they were passing them out for free based on charm and good looks, I'd still have to bust out the wallet, and probably would have to pay extra. Okay, maybe not if they were giving them away if you're good looking. Nawww, tu es muy GUAPO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Trick Fall Posted May 18, 2007 Author Members Share Posted May 18, 2007 Thanks for all the suggestions. I love the Massey plugs and will try some of the other suggestions as funds allow. While I certainly understand and use the concept of subtractive eq sometimes I have to go with the Pop Will Eat Itself slogan, "Sample it, loop it, F*ck it and eat it!" In other words sometimes you just have to mangle the sound as much as you can. As a matter of fact I feel like I hear way too much stuff where people haven't mangled the sounds lately, except to compress the piss out of everything of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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