Bruce --- Ever Learn Anything off of Seth Riggs that helped you record vocals any bet

[russrags]

Bruce,

 

I was wondering if all that being in the Studio with Seth Riggs anything ever rubbed off that you could benifit from in recording and producing better vocals???

 

I've been hanging around the top vocal teacher in Nashville for the past 7 or 8 years, and "good golly miss molly" has she ever helped me record and produce better vocal tracks.

 

In the past recording a vocal track was pretty much just letting the singer do what they do best and me suggesting fixing the parts that are obviously wrong.

 

Today, I'm fearless when it comes to recording vocals. I'm not a singer by any means, but I know a LOT about singing and now bring sooooooooooooo much more to the table when recording and producing vocals than ever before.

 

Just curious about you and Seth Riggs???

 

 

Russ

Nashville

[Bruce Swedien]

 

Bruce, I was wondering if all that being in the Studio with Seth Riggs anything ever rubbed off that you could benifit from in recording and producing better vocals??? I've been hanging around the top vocal teacher in Nashville for the past 7 or 8 years, and "good golly miss molly" has she ever helped me record and produce better vocal tracks. In the past recording a vocal track was pretty much just letting the singer do what they do best and me suggesting fixing the parts that are obviously wrong. Today, I'm fearless when it comes to recording vocals. I'm not a singer by any means, but I know a LOT about singing and now bring sooooooooooooo much more to the table when recording and producing vocals than ever before. Just curious about you and Seth Riggs??? Russ Nashville

 

 

Russ, my pal.....

 

Wow... what a great thought!!!!

 

I am not a vocalist, so I really don't know what I have learned from Seth about the musical craft of singing. My singing seems to be rather status quo....

 

However, I've been in the studio when Seth does a vocal warm-up with Michael. He's been doing that for years.... I've heard Seth tell Michael that a vocal warm-up is required before the vocal chords are expected to perform at their full potential. I believe that's true...

 

I'm quite sure that Michael believes that that is true also...

 

I've also watched Seth teach Michael about proper breathing technique.

 

And.... after a Seth Riggs session.... Michael steps up to one of my fantastic vocal mikes.

 

Well.... listen to Billie Jean....

 

Bruce

 

p. s. I studied voice at the University Of Minnesota. I don't think it helped!

Great thought Russ....

[UstadKhanAli]

Awesome idea for a thread!

 

Bruce, are you going to include some of the approaches MJ took to get those fantastic vocals in your book?

 

I really think MJ is an amazing vocalist.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Funny, but by pure coincidence, I've been sitting here listening to Back On The Block, which my wife put on about 30 minutes ago. Then I saw this thread...

 

The other coincidence is that Sandy (my wife) has been considering giving vocal lessons for a while now, and recently got Seth's book to check out.

[Tim Mayock]

I think that warm ups are very important. I was frustrated with Seth's book since i could not seem to blow bubbles. My lips just can't seem to do that.

This is one of the first warmup's in his Book/CD Singing for the Stars.

 

Any scales singing "me mo" starting in a comfortable range. and working up and down from there.

Same drill humming

Octave stuff

 

 

With the clients i have, getting them comfortable is huge. I try to do vocal takes without an audience whenever possible, even for seasoned singers.

 

Try to get the singer to drink lots of room temp water.

 

Russ, would you consider changing the title to keep this thing going? Singers don't get their own forum.

Thanks

Tim

[Lee Knight]

Great thread.

 

I sang for years in my band and still do. Mostly backgrounds... but we're a Power Pop vocal harmony group. Our own music but tapping into the concepts of the Turtles, Beatles, Beach Boys for inspiration. Now mostly I enjoy coaching, as best I can, singers that I'm producing.

 

I think I'll buy one of Seth's books. Any recommendations? I see a couple available.

 

I recently got a CD course that I used in my car for 6 months to really absorb the concepts. With the group I'm recording now I asked the singer to purchase the same course.

 

http://www.singingvoicelessons.com/

 

I keep in contact with him as to which exercises are challenging. What's easy for him. I offer my help when I can on this.

 

I saw them live a week ago and the difference in his voice was night and day. He comes from the school of pinched new wave whinyness... but last week he was open sounding, rich and resonant. But still with his attitude. Don't lose that!

 

I highly recommend offering this up for any singer you'll be working with. I haven't recorded his vocals yet but even his scatch stuff was much improved. I'm looking forward to tracking his lead vox where we'll actually have a common vocabulary, thanks to his working the instruction CD.

[russrags]

Thanks to everyone who share's the similar interest.

 

Tim, I'd be happy to change the title, but tried once, I guess I used too many letters. However, we should have no trouble keeping the thread alive, as it's such an eye opening concept that can literally change your life.

 

I'll state it again, I am NOT a singer. In fact I am literally embarrassed to open my mouth around such really great singers as the one's I associate with in the studio. But what I've learned from vocal training goes way beyond the technical quality that comes out of a persons mouth. There are many singers who technically are probably considered bad singers, but what they lack in singing pretty, they make up for it in phrasing and emotion.

 

I'll have to admit that vocal warm up lessons are pretty boring (although very necessary). The real excitement comes from crafting each and every word, dealing with the spaces in between, how much gas to give it, technique's on hitting the high note, vowels vs. consonance, important storey telling words vs. unimportant words, breathing and finding your center are just as important.

 

I don't believe there is such a thing as a naturally born singer. It takes a lot of effort and training to even consider the notion that your voice is an instrument.

 

You'd be surprised, what a few adjustments can do to one's posture and breathing, which instantly improves the tone in a great vocal track. To me a good analogy is comparing a singer to a professional wrestler. Now if it's a wrestlers job to grab a guy by the neck and throw him to the ground, just stop and think for a minute, what all is involved in order to accomplish this goal??? If the offensive guy is standing on one foot, chances are he will not be able to accomplish his goal. Just as a singer delivering a vocal performance that can rock the world, they've got to be able to do things with their entire body which support the final goal of what comes out of their mouth and ends up on the record.

 

Once again, I am not a singer, I'm an engineer/producer, but learning this craft has got to be the single most valuable tool I've learned which has made the most dramatic changes in what I can bring to the table and what has justified me being able to charge my clients what I do.

 

Anybody have more to share???

 

 

Russ

Nashville

[Kendrix]

I agree about the warm-ups. Every vocal teacher in the universe will preach that.

 

Picking up on some of Russ's comments: Gettin the fine details of the phrasing just right can make all the difference between an ordinary and a stunning vocal performance. Often times this also involves fine tweaks of the melody.

 

So, for me some pre-production time spent on the above is often a very worthwhile investment.

 

Sometimes the subtlties of the attitude projected by the vox are not so subtle. Sometimes , when comping from multiple takes, the difference in the attitude between takes really jumps out at you.

This can happen in the context of multiple takes recorded over just an hours time. This shows the many very fine gradations of color that the vox can project.

When recording that is both its greatest blessing and curse.

 

For the vox to sound a particuilar way your state of mind has to align with this. You cant seperate the two very well. So many vocal coaches seem to deal in the realm of sipirituality or positive energy. There is something to this.

 

One thing I find useful is to force a smile before a take.

This stretches some muscles in a helpful way.

Ive read that it also affects your brains biochemistry.

I think its true.

I find this to be a useful way to ratchet things up a notch- especially if any fatigue is starting to set in.

 

The timing betwen takes is also interesting to manage.

Sometimes several minutes between takes is best.

Sometimes not.

Depends on both your mental state and the status of your vocal chords.

 

On a related point - in addition to warm-ups Ive been using Thayers Slippery elm drops and some of their throat sprays.

Under certain circumstances they do help.

[Lee Knight]

Nice stuff Kendrix.

 

I use the above mentioned CD. It has a companion warmup CD.

 

I like to track right next to the singer. I have a lyric sheet that I've had as early as possible. I'm well acquainted with the song and it's lyrics by tracking time.

 

I have them run the song down a few times. Then we listen together. The biggest nontechnical issue is usually...

 

"Are you thinking about your lyrics while you're singing them?"

 

9 times out of 10, the singer is so wrapped up in making the track happen technically that they forget to perform. Technique gets better the less you obsess. So getting concentration back on the subject at hand. The words. What do they mean?

 

"Shouldn't that phrase have some balls? You pissed at her right?"

 

"Lets' try one with you lightening up right before the big chorus to show that contrast in feelings you're taking about in your lyrics."

 

When you know the lyrics and they're meaning, and you help the singer refocus on his or her own words... that is a powerful kick in the ass. Knowing the singers arsenal of tones and attitudes helps a lot as well. Being able to reference something else they've done very well previous is gold. "What if you do your Hey Jude tone from song X for this bridge?"

 

Then, at that point. any tech issues are easy enough to focus on and reconcile.

[boosh]

I was trying to not write a response in this thread mainly because I am a vocalist but never had lessons but,............

 

I saw Kendrix's response and I got to say,....

 

That man has one of the nices voices I ever heard.

 

I spend a day with him in Amsterdam and I enjoyed listening to him. I have a whole bunch of his songs and they sound great!!!!

 

It's the only home-made CD I ever listen just for pure entertainment and relaxation.

 

Whoever tries to tell me bedroom studio musicians suck and can't beat the pros,......well ^&*& them,...

 

I know Ken Favatadatadata

[Kendrix]

I was trying to not write a response in this thread mainly because I am a vocalist but never had lessons but,............ I saw Kendrix's response and I got to say,.... That man has one of the nices voices I ever heard. I spend a day with him in Amsterdam and I enjoyed listening to him. I have a whole bunch of his songs and they sound great!!!! It's the only home-made CD I ever listen just for pure entertainment and relaxation. Whoever tries to tell me bedroom studio musicians suck and can't beat the pros,......well ^&*& them,... I know Ken Favatadatadata

 

Booshie,

You are waaay too kind.

I'll pay you later.

Traveling soon??

[Ani]

I haven't read any of the books written by Seth Riggs, but I had a fantastic vocal teacher during my younger years that placed as much emphasis on preparedness to perform as he did voice. For his teachings; I am very grateful.

 

Posture was every bit as critical in the delivery of a vocal performance as it was the live stage appearance. Slouching or trying to sing while sitting or laying in an awkward position could very much limit your performance by putting stress on your diaphragm.

 

Students were instructed to keep their shoulders pulled back while standing upright. Deep breathing exercises were a part of our daily warm-ups just like the Be Be Be scales, among other scales. The breathing exercises were silent, but were done to help build endurance by strengthening our lungs. He would have us pull air in and hold it for a count of 30 to 45 seconds and then slowly exhale rather than releasing the air all at once.

 

Food consumption nearing a live performance was critical. We were always told not to eat within 3 hours of the performance. The undigested food still in your system could weigh heavily and hinder the longevity of holding extended notes.

 

He was very adamant about avoiding the closing out of a note before it was finished and letting the note carry out in a hum... the NASALLY effect that plagues some singers that have never had any vocal coaching. He also was very direct on the proper use of "R's" so that they were not gRRRRRRRing or Rrrrrrrrrolling off of the end of your tongue.

 

When singing in groups, T's at the end of a measure were left open until directed by him to close at once; so not to end up with a rattle of t's clattering at the end of the measure.

 

He taught us how to recognize break points during the middle of measures to sneak in a new breath of air so that we would be able to have enough breath to hold the note at the end without falling out of pitch.

 

Medications, such as antihistimines, pain killers, or muscle relaxers were detrimental to performance and were strongly discouraged near performances.

 

This is ONE teacher out of three throughout my entire education that made an absolute positive change in my life. A teacher that stands out above the many... One that I will be forever indebted to for his contributions in seeing a performer in a shy young girl that never thought she could sing a note.... When he pulled me out of a study hall and asked me to try out for A Capella Choir, I told him that I couldn't sing. He replied, I'll be the judge of that!