About to Take the Vista Plunge - Any Advice?

[Anderton]

Yes, as a fearless member of the fourth estate, it is my duty to check out the new stuff so you don't have to - until you know it's safe.

 

So, I'm going to migrate a bunch of programs over to a spanking new Vista machine with enough Intel horsepower to blow up a bridge. I'm planning on using the Line 6 KB37 and MOTU UltraLite as interfaces for now, and I'll start the Software Parade with Sonar, because I figure if anything will work great with Vista, it's that.

 

Okay early adopters - any advice? Anything I should look out for? Tips and tricks? Any cool things I need to check out?

[amplayer]

I am not an early adopter, and consequently don't have advice.

 

I do have a request though:

Please load up your machine with 16 Gbytes of RAM. Then, please try out Kontakt as a standalone and then inside 64-bit SONAR. Please configure Kontakt so that it uses as much real memory as possible, and then load up about 14 to 15 gigabytes of real memory with orchestral samples (like EWQL Platinum or Gold). Let us know if this actually works.

Thanks in advance.

[MikeRivers]

So, I'm going to migrate a bunch of programs over to a spanking new Vista machine with enough Intel horsepower to blow up a bridge. - any advice?

Don't give up your day (job) computer. Smart move to install some programs on a new computer while keeping the old one that works in case you need it, or as a reference if things work differently under Vista.

[spokenward]

 

...blow up a bridg*

 

 

no, no, no these days we blow up a "fridge" unless we want DHS lurking...

 

Good luck with the project anyway. I will be looking for a laptop shortly, so try a bunch of firewire interfaces. What flavor of Vista will pass as a testing platform?

[UstadKhanAli]

It's still safer than going back to Windows 95. That's the OS that made me buy a Mac.

[Beck]

It's still safer than going back to Windows 95. That's the OS that made me buy a Mac.

 

Should have waited just a bit for Win 95B... the most stable so far...

[Dean Roddey]

Quite a few SONAR folks are using Vista. As long as your audio interface vendor has their driver ducks in a row, it should be reasonably safe. I'm not sure if Vista can be stripped down as severely as XP Pro can though, which is usually a very good thing for a DAW, both for performane and for stability.

[Lee Flier]

1) Don't expect any of your hardware to work. A lot of hardware vendors don't have Vista drivers yet, or if they do, they're buggy. ATI graphics cards have been very buggy although I understand they've addressed a lot of the bugs recently. My NVidia hasn't had too many problems. Audio interfaces are hit and miss.

 

2) Turn off all the whizbang eye candy stuff right away. Go to Control Panel->Performance Information and Tools->Adjust Visual Effects and select "Adjust for best performance" which un-checks all the fading and sliding and 3D stuff that hogs resources like crazy.

 

3) Some of the desktop widgets are kinda cool... it's nice to have a CPU meter on the desktop, and the post-it notes come in handy.

 

If there are other major differences from XP I haven't really noticed or taken advantage of them yet - partly because I didn't upgrade to Vista by choice, it came with my recently purchased laptop and I just needed to get up and working ASAP, didn't have time to screw around too much. And partly because as mentioned, some of the stuff I use doesn't have Vista drivers yet so I can't even try it out. So I'm pretty lukewarm about it so far.

[philbo]

 

Yes, as a fearless member of the fourth estate, it is my duty to check out the new stuff so you don't have to - until you know it's safe. So, I'm going to migrate a bunch of programs over to a spanking new Vista machine with enough Intel horsepower to blow up a bridge. I'm planning on using the Line 6 KB37 and MOTU UltraLite as interfaces for now, and I'll start the Software Parade with Sonar, because I figure if anything will work great with Vista, it's that. Okay early adopters - any advice? Anything I should look out for? Tips and tricks? Any cool things I need to check out?

 

 

If it was anyone else but you, I'd yell "For Gods sake, wait 5 years till they finish debugging it!!!"

 

But since you're doing it as research.... alrighty then.

[Geoff Grace]

This may seem obvious, but I guess it never hurts to have a reminder:

 

1. Save often.

 

2. Backup more often than usual.

 

3. Print a hardcopy of tech support phone numbers.

 

4. Don't forget the usual suspects when troubleshooting -- sometimes it's not the new operating system at fault.

 

5. First, I would get a feel for Vista without any third party apps installed. Then, I'd install Sonar and try it under Vista without third party plug-ins installed. Then, I'd slowly add third party plug-ins, trying each one out before adding another.

 

Good luck, Craig; and thanks for being our resident explorer.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[rasputin1963]

I've been working on VISTA for about 6 months now. I am convinced that my boxed VISTA setup greatly improved in performance once it had downloaded a lot of MICROSOFT's online updates.

 

So, as soon as you can, be sure to bolster your existing VISTA with all the updates currently available.

 

VISTA has more "nanny" features than XP did..... scolding you and telling you "Oh, no you don't!" and asking you "Confirm? Deny?" more often... That will take some getting used to.

 

VISTA has a feature whereby it will automatically seek out online what it thinks are the latest and best drivers for your individual hardware pieces; 90% of the time it is correct, but sometimes it doesn't find the absolute latest drivers for some things, so you may want to manually visit the websites of your hardware to ensure you have the latest drivers.

 

If you're like me, you will not find essential all the new desktop eye-candy they've instituted; I just shut it all off.... There are better ways, I think, to receive the latest news/weather/astrology horoscope, etc.

 

Be sure you figure out how to add executables to VISTA's DEP [Data Execution Prevention] list.

 

There are some programs out there which happily run on XP but do not run (yet) on VISTA. You'd think there would be universal backwards compatibility, but t'ain't always the case.

[seclusion]

Yes, I think we can all agree we're really wondering about Vista 64, Vista 32 is just a tease?

Yes, I think we all can agree that we want to use lotsa ram?

Yes, I think we can all agree we'd like to run our buffers at 64 from the start of the project right through to the end.

Yes, I think we can agree that while you're at it, can you load the OS on a solid state drive, and load some samples on another and...

Yes, I think we can all agree that while you're at it, can you test out Logic 8?

Oh wait, how'd that get in there? Oh well.

Later

[Anderton]

 

list.

 

 

How about someone just tell me how to do it? Save some time, and all that.

[rasputin1963]

 

How about someone just tell me how to do it? Save some time, and all that.

 

 

Righty-O. It's like this: There are some executables---- programs whose files take the suffix *.exe, as you know--- which VISTA likes, and then there are others which VISTA doesn't like, for reasons I cannot discern.

 

These include both installed *exe's, and those called "Setup.exe" which you are intending to install.

 

When VISTA doesn't "like" a particular *.exe, it will refuse to run it, in the name of DEP--- or "Data Execution Prevention".

 

Usually though, you can manually list that disfavored *.exe with VISTA's DEP list, and thenceforth VISTA will run the program.

 

VISTA's DEP list is in a weird-assed place: Go to START-----> SETTINGS------> CONTROL PANEL------> SYSTEM------> TASKS--------> ADVANCED SYSTEM SETTINGS-------> PERFORMANCE SETTINGS------> DATA EXECUTION PREVENTION tab.

 

Under DEP, you'll want to select the second radio button choice: "Turn on Data Execution Prevention for all programs and services except those I select."

 

Then, using the ADD... button, browse to the particular *.exe on your hard-drive that VISTA is refusing, and add it to the list. Click APPLY and OK. If you're lucky, it will thenceforth run.

[Lee Flier]

How about someone just tell me how to do it? Save some time, and all that.

 

Yuck. If you practice "safe computing" and have never had a problem with viruses and such, I don't recommend doing this. Vista automatically monitors its own files and services with DEP and that's enough. As you know, virus protection programs that run in the background hog resources and sometimes are more disruptive than a virus or spyware itself. Plus, for DEP to monitor external software, the software company has to have already released a DEP-compatible update, which many have not. This might result in DEP unexpectedly closing a perfectly good program because it thinks it's doing something bad, when the program is perfectly innocent.

 

If you really want to monitor other software with DEP, go to Control Panel->System and open Advanced System Settings. On the "Advanced" tab, click the Settings button under "Performance". You can also turn off all the visual whizbang crap here if you haven't done so yet.

 

Then go to the "Data Execution Prevention" tab. It should be on the default setting which is "Turn on DEP for essential Windows programs and services only." I just left mine on the default. If you want DEP to monitor external programs, select the other option, "Turn on DEP for all programs and services except those I select." Then there's a dialogue where you can add or remove programs that you don't want it to monitor. Just click the Add button and locate the .EXE for the program.

 

Again though, I only recommend turning on this option if you're a frequent visitor to porn sites, browse without a popup blocker, don't use a firewall and/or are in the habit of clicking bogus links in emails. Otherwise the freakin thing is just hogging more of your system's resources and often causing unexpected shutdowns and other hassles.

[Dean Roddey]

Yeh, definitely don't run any of the standard anti-virus programs like Norton or Symantec. These things are huge, bloated, highly intrusive programs. If you need to use one, get a light weight one like AVG and turn off the live monitoring component, so that it's just used for e-mail scanning and manual scanning. It has hardly any footprint at all in that configuration.

[alphajerk]

just enjoy it craig... even with the eye candy. with a current machine, none of that is of any issue with a decent graphics card. play around like that for a while stock and then start slimming things down. this is a more "fun" interface than XP in tinker toy mode [default] ever was... classic mode in vista just looks ugly.

 

im getting ready to throw Vista 64bit with Sonar onto a machine. have to either run the stock audio or get a vista compatible interface [which are harder to find... though i will probably be playing with a motu pcie 424 card since they have had their drivers out for a while].

 

Vista 32 is a tease in a way, but Adobe still all runs in 32bit so most applications are a tease.

 

3rd party drivers are still the achilles heel of vista, wish the companies would get on the ball more quickly.... even my linksys wireless pci card has difficulty often.

[rasputin1963]

 

Yeh, definitely don't run any of the standard anti-virus programs like Norton or Symantec. These things are huge, bloated, highly intrusive programs. If you need to use one, get a light weight one like AVG and turn off the live monitoring component, so that it's just used for e-mail scanning and manual scanning. It has hardly any footprint at all in that configuration.

 

 

This was my thinking as well. I loathe the big firewall/antivirus "suites" like Norton. They slow your computer down to a standstill.

[Alndln2]

Dual Boot. Keep XP around, youll need it.

[MikeRivers]

 

VISTA has a feature whereby it will automatically seek out online what it thinks are the latest and best drivers for your individual hardware pieces; 90% of the time it is correct, but sometimes it doesn't find the absolute latest drivers for some things, so you may want to manually visit the websites of your hardware to ensure you have the latest drivers.

Is there any history or even anecdotes of it finding and installing the wrong drivers for something? That could be insidious and cause a problem that (unless it leaves an audit trail that you can find) would be difficult to trace.

Be sure you figure out how to add executables to VISTA's DEP [Data Execution Prevention] list.

Figure out??? FIGURE OUT????????? What is Data Execution Prevention and what do you want to prevent (or not?). The problem with advice like this is that it hints that there are important things in Vista that some people know about and others don't. Pray tell!

 

I've heard about turning off the fancy visual stuff. On XP, it's to select the "Windows Classic" view. Lee's reply was helpful with directions to select for "best performance" and an explanation of what that does (it probably does other things too, so we'll have to trust that they aren't harmful). But "figure out" something that sounds quite mysterious sounds ominous.

You'd think there would be universal backwards compatibility, but t'ain't always the case.

It's often not the case. I can still run DOS programs under XP even though it's not real DOS any longer (I use a Lotus 1-2-3 spreadsheet for my business bookkeeping, which has macros that don't translate to Excel). Will that run under Vista?

[Lancaster]

 

Yeh, definitely don't run any of the standard anti-virus programs like Norton or Symantec. These things are huge, bloated, highly intrusive programs. If you need to use one, get a light weight one like AVG and turn off the live monitoring component, so that it's just used for e-mail scanning and manual scanning. It has hardly any footprint at all in that configuration.

 

 

In AVG, what is the Live Monitoring Component called? Is it Resident Shield?

[alphajerk]

 

Dual Boot . Keep XP around, youll need it.

 

 

it sounds like he has a dedicated Vista machine for testing purposes.

 

as for DEP, it only works for 32bit applications. 64bit [like sonar] you can not disable it.

 

the BIGGEST problem right now, and i dont know for how long will be the 32bit apps running on a 64bit machine in the 32bit shell. even things like Flash Player dont run native in a 64bit browser [iE]. this seems like its going to be a long gradual switchover to 64bit technology.

 

im curious if ANY 3rd party plugins are 64bit native yet... and Sonar is the ONLY DAW right now correct?

[alphajerk]

=anti-virus shouldnt be necessary on a un-networked machine. or firewalls enabled. just something to think about. on a networked machine, firewalls are a good idea, but no need for antivirus if you get no email or surf the net on the machine. of course maintain the security features...

 

AVG free if you need it however is VERY lightweight. and both the shell manager and resident shield scan your machine, especially when you have internet clients up.... it would be pointless to turn it off, because you are basically diabling your protection, so why run it to begin with.

[UstadKhanAli]

Should have waited just a bit for Win 95B... the most stable so far...

 

Well, you hit the nail on the head. For 99% of the time, I didn't know it, but we had Win 95A. I was told by a tech that there were four of 'em (Win95A-D). I didn't know anything about computers, but sheesh, the thing was a nightmare. I'd use a PC now. They're seem so much better now. XP seems stable. But Win95A was so aggravating that it drove me to use a Mac, and at the time, I said, "I'll never use a Windows product again."

[MattACaster]

I'v been using Vista since the day it came out without any major issues. Drivers have been easy to find and I haven't had anything crash yet.

 

My only advice is to disable UAC. I've found that when things tend to run a little funky, UAC is usually to blame.