Members John Sayers Posted September 18, 2007 Members Share Posted September 18, 2007 Asher MosesSeptember 18, 2007 - 12:26PMNine Inch Nails frontman Trent Reznor has slammed his record label and strongly encouraged fans to steal music.Reznor launched a stinging tirade against Universal Music Australia on Sunday at the group's concert at Sydney's Hordern Pavilion, dismayed at the high price the label charged for CDs.He called the record label "greedy f---ing assholes". It followed similar diatribes earlier in the year."Steal it. Steal away. Steal, steal and steal some more and give it to all your friends and keep on stealing," Reznor, who has been dubbed the Ralph Nader of the music industry, said."Because one way or another these mother f---ers will get it through their head that they're ripping people off and that's not right."The group's latest album, Year Zero, sells for more than $30 in Australia, far more than albums from other artists.A proud Reznor said Universal Music worldwide already hated him after he made similar comments on high CD prices the last time he visited Australia ("because I yelled at them and called them out for being greedy f---ing assholes").The Australian Recording Industry Association (ARIA), which has vigorously campaigned against music piracy, refused to comment on Reznor's attack. Universal Music Australia did not return calls requesting comment.Reznor's endorsement of illegal downloading comes at a time when artists, particularly well-established ones, are cracking down on sites illegally distributing their music.The crackdown is viewed by many as a desperate response to flagging physical CD sales in the face of digital downloads, both legal and illegal.Figures released by ARIA last month revealed CD album and single sales dropped by 17 per cent and 47 per cent respectively in the first six months of this year, compared with the same period last year. Digital album sales increased by 67 per cent.Last week, Prince said he planned to sue eBay, YouTube and The Pirate Bay for copyright infringement, in a bid to "reclaim his art on the internet".Days later, Can't Stop Productions, which owns the rights to the Village People's music, said it was preparing to sue YouTube over a Hitler-themed clip that used the group's hit song, YMCA.But Reznor, a self-confessed illegal downloader, has been campaigning to have CD prices reduced since May when, on the band's website, he noted Year Zero sold in Australia for $34.99, compared with an Avril Lavigne album costing $21.99.He said a Universal Music rep told him the price was so high because Nine Inch Nails fans would buy the record regardless of its cost."No wonder people steal music," Reznor wrote.This month before a concert at the Beijing Pop Festival he said: "It does not seem to be easy to obtain Western music via legal channels, so I have the following suggestion for our fans: if you can find and buy our legal CDs, I express my thanks for your support. If you cannot find it, I think that [illegally] downloading from the internet is a more acceptable option than buying pirated CDs."Reznor told his Chinese fans that Nine Inch Nails would put out one last album for Universal, after which it would sell directly to fans through its website for as cheaply as $4 an album. source would you spend $34.99 for an album? converted to US dollars it's still US$28.65!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dean Roddey Posted September 18, 2007 Members Share Posted September 18, 2007 The joke is that they will still steal it when it's being sold by him for $4, because it doesn't have much to do with the price, it has to do with the fact that they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alndln2 Posted September 18, 2007 Members Share Posted September 18, 2007 There isn't much out there that's even worth stealing anymore, that's the real problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dean Roddey Posted September 18, 2007 Members Share Posted September 18, 2007 That must be why billions of tunes are stolen a year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted September 18, 2007 Members Share Posted September 18, 2007 There isn't much out there that's even worth stealing anymore, that's the real problem. The Beatles aren't worth stealing? I always thought those guys were pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Super 8 Posted September 18, 2007 Members Share Posted September 18, 2007 I thought Australians were already a bunch of thieves, which might account for the high cost of Reznor's CD over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Super 8 Posted September 18, 2007 Members Share Posted September 18, 2007 The joke is that they will still steal it when it's being sold by him for $4, because it doesn't have much to do with the price, it has to do with the fact that they can. No they wouldn't. Or at least it would decline dramatically. Few people would go to the trouble of trying to find and download decent MP3's if they could get the whole album for $4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amplayer Posted September 18, 2007 Members Share Posted September 18, 2007 The Beatles aren't worth stealing? I always thought those guys were pretty good. That's the point. Everyone already has the Beatles recordings, whether legal or otherwise. We want something new, but there's so much stuff out there, that we can't find anything we want, whether or not it is free. It's basically just like cable TV. Even with over 100 channels to choose from, there doesn't seem to be anything to pique our interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted September 18, 2007 Members Share Posted September 18, 2007 That's the point. Everyone already has the Beatles recordings, whether legal or otherwise. I have no proof or quotable statistics to back this up, but I'd be willing to bet my bottom dollar that just like record sales, the biggest illegal downloads are old catalog music from all the old favorites. I'll bet more people grabbed old Zeppelin songs from a P2P system than they did the latest My Chemical Romance tune. There's a reason for this, but now I'm not going to tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dean Roddey Posted September 18, 2007 Members Share Posted September 18, 2007 No they wouldn't. Or at least it would decline dramatically. Few people would go to the trouble of trying to find and download decent MP3's if they could get the whole album for $4. It ain't very much trouble, and $4 is still $4 more than free, and most those kids out there aren't strealing it because of the price, they are stealing it because they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Super 8 Posted September 18, 2007 Members Share Posted September 18, 2007 It ain't very much trouble, and $4 is still $4 more than free, and most those kids out there aren't strealing it because of the price, they are stealing it because they can. Actually it's more trouble than just spending the 4 bucks and having a perfect copy of the album. Naturally there will be some who will continue to download, but there would be far fewer of them. Now if it's just picking up the latest single, I might agree with you. But the album, it's easier to just pony up 4 bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alndln2 Posted September 18, 2007 Members Share Posted September 18, 2007 We want something new, but there's so much stuff out there, that we can't find anything we want, whether or not it is free. That pretty much sums up how I feel. As far as older classics go (Beatles etc.) I don't have any desire to collect or re-hear it again as it's all in my head and being played everywhere(radios tv commercials/news etc.)anyway. Maybe others feel differently. I suppose it would be interesting to know what people are downloading and how much from year to year. It seemed to be all the rage a few years ago when Knapster was at it's height, but I don't even see or hear P2P even being discussed much anymore. One things for certain though, I don't think we'll ever get any real figures from any source that can be trusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted September 18, 2007 Members Share Posted September 18, 2007 One things for certain though, I don't think we'll ever get any real figures from any source that can be trusted. Exactly. It's like asking, "How much weed is sold in the USA each year?" The only stat you get is a rough estimate that's guaranteed to be influenced by the agenda of whoever is reporting the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jotown Posted September 18, 2007 Members Share Posted September 18, 2007 It ain't very much trouble, and $4 is still $4 more than free, and most those kids out there aren't strealing it because of the price, they are stealing it because they can.+1 Been having this argument for 5 years now. The proofs in the pudding. People steal music because they can. Free will always beat having to pay for something. And don't start that bottled water argument because it doesn't hold water. People buy bottled water becuase they believe it to be better for them and that free water is bad. The culture of "free" music is destroying the record business not just the record companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kerouac Posted September 18, 2007 Members Share Posted September 18, 2007 I dl a LOT of records... but I BUY a lot of them too. I've been burned so many times by {censored}ty CDs with one or two good songs, so I dl'd an album, listen to it a few times, and if it's any good I go out and buy it. If I just like a couple of songs, I'll try to iTunes those songs... I've bought a lot of songs from them because I have no interest in the rest of the album. If I like it, I keep the mp3 copy, and that way I don't have to rip the album to my drive again, but if it's a low quality MP3, I usually will re-rip. If the album is crap, it's deleted and never heard again. I'll also dl'd copies of CDs I have or had, that got swiped, broken or lost. Hey, I paid for it once, still have the case, and booklets, I'll grab myself a backup. I generally buy 100+ CDs a year, and a lot of them are from indie labels or direct from artists. I think Year Zero was actually the last major label release I bought! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HCarlH Posted September 18, 2007 Members Share Posted September 18, 2007 +1Been having this argument for 5 years now. The proofs in the pudding. People steal music because they can. Free will always beat having to pay for something.And don't start that bottled water argument because it doesn't hold water. People buy bottled water becuase they believe it to be better for them and that free water is bad.The culture of "free" music is destroying the record business not just the record companies. If I have the choice of a lousy sounding MP3 version of a complete album vs. $4 for the uncompressed normal version, I'll spend $4. I do understand why people download (and settle for bad fidelity) when CDs in the store cost $19+. I would totally use iTunes if they offered uncompressed WAV format. Most people have DSL or cable connections or have access....there's no excuse not to offer it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kerouac Posted September 18, 2007 Members Share Posted September 18, 2007 People buy bottled water becuase they believe it to be better for them and that free water is bad. I dunno about it being "bad" in a health way, but our water here sure tastes nasty. Drive 20 minutes to my Mum's house and it's fine. I used to use a Britta filter, but I like the bottles better, plus I can wash them out and mix up ready made rum n' cokes, screwdrivers, jack n' coke, etc, or even just lemonades, apple juice or whatever. Plus, I can now use the Britta filter for Vodka!!!! *this really doesn't have ANY bearing on the issue at hand, but this is just why I'd rather have bottled water!!!* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted September 18, 2007 Members Share Posted September 18, 2007 +1 Been having this argument for 5 years now. The proofs in the pudding. People steal music because they can. Free will always beat having to pay for something. And don't start that bottled water argument because it doesn't hold water. People buy bottled water becuase they believe it to be better for them and that free water is bad. The culture of "free" music is destroying the record business not just the record companies. Bottom line is the major labels flog utter {censored} to the public and I'm sick of it...yea people steal music but it generally doesn't hurt the Artist..Just the asshole labels and i don't feel bad for them because at the beginning of the internet they could have made stuff available and given the fans what they wanted. They wouldn't be in such a mess...Either way, i want the Big labels to go away...Maybe Radio would actually start playing good music again if they didn't have the payola that The Big boys give them to play their {censored}.... I sell plenty of CD's at my shows and so would every other artist if they played live and had no label...They would sell much much less music but they would make enough money...we all know this. The paradigm has shifted and there will be no going back. Time to move on and figure out a way to make it as an indie musician and stop whining about the majors problems....Sorry but I don't feel bad for them at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flatfinger Posted September 18, 2007 Members Share Posted September 18, 2007 Bottom line is the major labels flog utter {censored} to the public and I'm sick of it...yea people steal music but it generally doesn't hurt the Artist..Just the asshole labels and i don't feel bad for them because at the beginning of the internet they could have made stuff available and given the fans what they wanted. They wouldn't be in such a mess...Either way, i want the Big labels to go away...Maybe Radio would actually start playing good music again if they didn't have the payola that The Big boys give them to play their {censored}.... I sell plenty of CD's at my shows and so would every other artist if they played live and had no label...They would sell much much less music but they would make enough money...we all know this. The paradigm has shifted and there will be no going back. Time to move on and figure out a way to make it as an indie musician and stop whining about the majors problems....Sorry but I don't feel bad for them at all. You are spot on , sventvkg http://www.countingcrows.com/news/news.php?uid=2353 We used to tour to promote records -- now we release records to promote tours. When they sue young kids and there poor families, It looks soooooooooooooo bad , sooooooo desperate ; somthings up. Change of the guard boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dean Roddey Posted September 18, 2007 Members Share Posted September 18, 2007 Bottom line is the major labels flog utter {censored} to the public and I'm sick of it...yea people steal music but it generally doesn't hurt the Artist..Just the asshole labels and i don't feel bad for them because at the beginning of the internet they could have made stuff available and given the fans what they wanted. People don't download billions of copies of excrement. They download billions of copies of what they want to have. So this is an inherently contradictory claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted September 19, 2007 Members Share Posted September 19, 2007 People don't download billions of copies of excrement. They download billions of copies of what they want to have. So this is an inherently contradictory claim. WRONG WRONG WRONG...It's advertizing that tells people what music to like (Radio, VH1. MTV, Print, etc) Just like it's advertizing that tells people how to dress, what games are cool and just about everything else...People want to be told...It has nothing to do with whether the music they are told to buy is good or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flatfinger Posted September 19, 2007 Members Share Posted September 19, 2007 People want to be told...It has nothing to do with whether the music they are told to buy is good or not. Thus the practice of payola......... " People don't know what they like ; they like what they know" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Super 8 Posted September 19, 2007 Members Share Posted September 19, 2007 And don't start that bottled water argument because it doesn't hold water. People buy bottled water becuase they believe it to be better for them and that free water is bad. Start charging them $7.00 a bottle for water and they'll start buying filters and making their own. Free does NOT always win out. People will pay for quality and convenience. What they won't do is pay ridiculously high prices for something they could get for the investment of a little time and trouble obtaining it. Give people decent quality, make the payment and delivery convenient, and keep the price down and you'll have a better mousetrap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted September 19, 2007 Members Share Posted September 19, 2007 The joke is that they will still steal it when it's being sold by him for $4, because it doesn't have much to do with the price, it has to do with the fact that they can. DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING!! We have a winner on the first reply! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted September 19, 2007 Members Share Posted September 19, 2007 Actually it's more trouble than just spending the 4 bucks and having a perfect copy of the album. Naturally there will be some who will continue to download, but there would be far fewer of them. Now if it's just picking up the latest single, I might agree with you. But the album, it's easier to just pony up 4 bucks. I download (legally!) because it's convenient and I can find almost anything I'm looking for without having to leave the house. Hardly any record store in the world is going to have both Pat McLaughlin's first album and the latest Prince record. Like Dean said, why would I spend even four bucks if it meant I had to go get in the car and drive around to various outlets to find the hard copy I'm looking for, when I can just get it off my computer, especially for free if I really wanted to steal it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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