Exit Humans, Enter Robots

[audioicon]

Most of the grocery and some other stores in the city I live uses "Automated Check out Machines." Now, a lot of people will say this is for fast check out or convenience but I'll "personally" say these machines are replacing the humans.

 

Now all the rows that use to have human/cashiers are now computerized cashiers. It takes job away from thousands of people if you calculate all the store chain that uses these machines.

 

1. I say the stores are saving money, health insurance and liability of putting up with a human.

 

What ever happened to costumer service or the human touch?

 

What are your views?

 

Audioicon/Patrick

[Mr. Botch]

They love to tout how this new process saves you money, and of course you noticed the corresponding drop in prices, right?

 

I didn't either.

 

I personally hate this new development, partly because the "aura" I have that crashes anything by Microsoft on contact also works on automatic cashiers. The first SIX (I'm not exaggerating) times I've tried to use them resulted in the human attendant coming over and saying something like, "I've not seen this problem before, why don't you go to the cashier over there?"

 

The Amish are looking more tempting all the time...

[Mr. Botch]

I will admit, though, that I've finally started using a credit card at gas pumps. It saves, anymore, two trips to the cashier's cage, plus it doesn't take over half the $100 cash I just got out of the ATM (ARGH, another one!) to fill up. (I just bought a 600 cc motorcycle to help with the gas costs, and I'm already looking at trading it in for two scooters...).

[elsongs]

Robots may not be 100% reliable, but at least they don't flake

[Super 8]

 

Most of the grocery and some other stores in the city I live uses "Automated Check out Machines." Now, a lot of people will say this is for fast check out or convenience but I'll "personally" say these machines are replacing the humans.

 

 

Not in my experience. They still need a human cashier to operate the automated checkout machines for idiot customers like myself.

 

Look at it this way, if it does catch on there will be fewer attractive young women with varicose veins from standing all day long.

[veracohr]

When I first encountered them, I had a very disparaging opinion of U-Scan lines at grocery stores. Now I use them almost invariably. Of course, I'm a rather anti-social sort of person, so I like the fact that I can minimize contact with what I usually find to be annoying people.

 

But on a different side of the subject, the increasing automation of these sorts of things is, in my opinion, good in the long run.

 

In the short run, sure, it may decrease jobs and cause minor difficulties in use until the bumps in the technology are smoothed out, but ultimately, do you think that manning* a grocery store checkout stand is a useful way for a person to spend any part of their life?

 

When it comes to matters such as these, I think in the very long term. I think that many jobs that are today performed by people could easily be performed by automation. And I think that if they were automated, humankind could turn its attention to more important things, such as improving itself, in all manner of ways. Capitalism and consumerism is transitory in the long-run; less than 1000 years of it in, what, 10,000 years of human civilization? Our way of life will not last, and I hope I can see the day when life in general evolves beyond mere survival, which is the mode of life that consumerism is a product of.

 

So are automated check-out machines replacing humans? Of course they are! That's the whole purpose, and don't believe anyone who tells you otherwise! But just because they are replacing humans doesn't mean they are a bad thing.

 

 

 

 

* I wanted to use a gender-neutral term for this, but couldn't think of one.

[Ryst]

Most of the grocery and some other stores in the city I live uses "Automated Check out Machines." Now, a lot of people will say this is for fast check out or convenience but I'll "personally" say these machines are replacing the humans. Now all the rows that use to have human/cashiers are now computerized cashiers. It takes job away from thousands of people if you calculate all the store chain that uses these machines. 1. I say the stores are saving money, health insurance and liability of putting up with a human. What ever happened to costumer service or the human touch? What are your views? Audioicon/Patrick

 

 

I have a few conflicting views on this.

 

On one hand, I don't really want to go the the store to "interact" with humans. I want to buy my {censored} and leave. I don't need to make new friends and going thru the automated checkout line prevents me from having to deal with the ever-so declining "customer service" we now experience in America. I don't need to deal with a rude cashier who's having a bad day.

Plus, if the "robot" {censored}s up, I can say "hey you little {censored}, give me my money back". It's more complicated to do that with a human.

 

 

On the other hand, I find that its necessary if I am completely lonely an need a friend even if its just for 45 seconds of my day. Sometimes, a simple hi can change your whole day. You never know who you might run into.

 

 

 

What I hate most is the automated PHONE messages that subject me to saying "yes", "no", or "I don't know" to a {censored}ing computer on the phone when i call my bank, my credit card company, my cable internet provider, my hooker, or my butcher. I find this very insulting to be forced to "talk" to a computer voice just to navigate thru menus and options. I would much rather have the option to "press 0 for assistance". But then again, I can get away with saying..."OPERATOR....you little {censored}!"

[audioicon]

What I hate most is the automated PHONE messages that subject me to saying "yes", "no", or "I don't know" to a {censored}ing computer on the phone when i call my bank, my credit card company, my cable internet provider, my hooker, or my butcher. I find this very insulting to be forced to "talk" to a computer voice just to navigate thru menus and options. I would much rather have the option to "press 0 for assistance". But then again, I can get away with saying..."OPERATOR....you little {censored}!"

 

Well it's all the same thing, when I was with Sprint they had a voice come on when you call their customer/tech support. She says, "Hi this is Claire" I really hated that voice and by the time I got through to an actual person, I was already pissed off ready to vent.

 

Another one is when these robotic voices ask you to say something like. "Tell us why you are calling" And I'll say Tech support and she(robot) will asked, did you say minutes? No I said tech support, sorry I can understand you....good bye.

 

This may give you stroke!

 

Audioicon

[Ryst]

Well it's all the same thing, when I was with Sprint they had a voice come on when you call their customer/tech support. She says, "Hi this is Claire" I really hated that voice and by the time I got through to an actual person, I was already pissed off ready to vent. Another one is when these robotic voices ask you to say something like. "Tell us why you are calling" And I'll say Tech support and she(robot) will asked, did you say minutes? No I said tech support, sorry I can understand you....good bye. This may give you stroke! Audioicon

 

Oh yeah....that's the {censored} that really bothers me. I really don't really mind automated checkouts too much at all. But talking to a "voice" on the phone that is just a recording really gets under my skin. Especially when they say "I'm sorry, I didn't understand you". Of course you didn't......you weren't listening in the first place!!!!

[monstermaker]

 

Another one is when these robotic voices ask you to say something like. "Tell us why you are calling" And I'll say Tech support and she(robot) will asked, did you say minutes? No I said tech support, sorry I can understand you....good bye.

 

 

This makes me crazy. I usually start hitting 0 for an operator or say "I need a person." to the robot till I get a customer rep.

[audioicon]

 

This makes me crazy. I usually start hitting 0 for an operator or say "I need a person." to the robot till I get a customer rep.

 

 

 

Most companies you called will give you so many options on the phone except an option for a representative. Usually you would spend minutes pressing keys and finally they'll say press 0 for a rep.

 

Like T-Mobile, the voice will ask you for all your information and then when the humans finally comes on, they ask you the same thing again.

 

What a waste of time.

 

AI

[Ryst]

 

Like T-Mobile, the voice will ask you for all your information and then when the humans finally comes on, they ask you the same thing again. What a waste of time. AI

 

 

 

I forgot about that! Comcast, T-Mobile, credit cards.......the computer voice asks for your account info, and then tells you your balance or whatever and then when you get a human on the phone, they ask for your account number again! WTF!

[SpaceNorman]

 

Most of the grocery and some other stores in the city I live uses "Automated Check out Machines." Now, a lot of people will say this is for fast check out or convenience but I'll "personally" say these machines are replacing the humans. What ever happened to costumer service or the human touch? What are your views? Audioicon/Patrick

 

 

I prefer to use the "automated check out machines" at the grocery store! At least that way I have some control over how quickly my transaction will be completed. There are few things more frustrating than waiting in line and watching a marginally competent cashier fumble their way through transaction after transaction.

 

As far as customer service goes ... the stores that deploy automated checkout machines clearly made a decision about where "customer service" fits in their priority scheme WAY before they decided to deploy the automated checkout machines. The stores around me that use them are typically staffed by untrained/unskilled employees who seem to be barely familiar with the store's policies, pricing, processes and procedures - let alone being even remotely knowledgeable about the products they sell.

 

If a store is going to embrace the self-service business model - I say go all the way! Sell products at the most competitive price around - and put in LOTS of the automatic checkout machines so that we don't have to stand in line waiting for our turn to use it!!!!

 

While they're at it - put in a few more "courtesy scanners" around the store so I can find out what something is going to cost without having to hunt down a hapless shelf stocker and baffled them with a "what does this cost" question.

 

If they feel they need to bone up on the "human touch" factor ... double up on the number of smiling retiree greeters that welcome you at the door.

[the-good-way]

It's a tough situation/balance...one we've been wrestling with for, well at least a couple thousand years - It is reported that Emperor Vespasian, for instance, refused a new crane design with "let my plebbies [plebians] have their work"

 

And there has been a paid-worker displacement technqiue around for quite a while...slavery

"robot" actually comes from the Czech 'robotu' (Forced laborer) and even in the seminal work RUR the robots, while artifical, were biological "men"

 

unionization, the part-time worker, the youth worker, "nickel&dimed" wage scales, underemployment, unemployment, overemployment, churn&burn, outsourcing, competitive biz model tuning, fair biz practices, ad nauseum

 

whew!

what to do? what to do?

[Anderton]

Interesting topic. Yesterday I needed a new battery for my cell phone. Rather than go to Best Buy or the ATT store or whatever, I went to a little mom & pop store called Batteries Plus. Within 20 seconds of arriving in the store, the guy behind the counter was asking if I needed any help - not in a pushy way, in a true "customer service" kind of way. I showed him my phone, within another 20 seconds he had the battery, and opened it up just to make sure it fit. Then he asked if I wanted him to dispose of the old battery safely, and I said yes.

 

All the time he was friendly and helpful, and the entire transaction took virtually no time out of my day because he was so efficient. The price was not significantly different than it would have been online or anywhere else. What started out as buying a battery turned into a pleasant experience...same with the sewing machine store where my daughter gets her supplies. Plus, the people there are cool and she usually ends up talking about sewing techniques. And that's why if I'm going to buy a cup of coffee, I'll pass by Starbucks and go to a locally-owned place. I truly believe that in most cases, patronizing these places improves your quality of life. Waiting for 20 minutes at Home Depot just to find someone who can answer a basic question about a product does not.

 

Oh, and have you noticed that at a lot of these box mover stores, the items don't scan with the same price as that given in the label below them on the shelf? Petco consistently charges me a couple dollars over the quoted price for a couple items until I bring it to their attention. The other scam is having a more expensive item in place of a less expensive one on the shelf, but leaving up the price for the less expensive one. You see the item and think "Oh cool, it's only $49" and when it gets scanned at checkout, it's $89 instead. I've gotten into the habit of matching UPC codes just to make sure.

 

Then there's the time I went to the bank to make a deposit, and they left off a zero, effectively reducing my deposit by 90%. And the bank that says "We don't charge any fees to convert foreign currency" but then have a worse exchange rate than anyone else. These multinationals are constantly scamming the crap out of us. ATM charge of $3? Huh? That's a nice little profit center.

[Mr. Botch]

Oh, and have you noticed that at a lot of these box mover stores, the items don't scan with the same price as that given in the label below them on the shelf? Petco consistently charges me a couple dollars over the quoted price for a couple items until I bring it to their attention. The other scam is having a more expensive item in place of a less expensive one on the shelf, but leaving up the price for the less expensive one. You see the item and think "Oh cool, it's only $49" and when it gets scanned at checkout, it's $89 instead. I've gotten into the habit of matching UPC codes just to make sure.

:eek: That's something I wasn't aware of!

[Lee Knight]

Well... 2 sides to the story here as well. On the one hand, the first day I encountered one, I thought the world as I knew it was over. It was so complicated. "Unexpected item in the bagging area. "F%^& this f%^&ing thing!!!"

 

But...

 

I'm working on a project around the house and find I need... oh, a toilet valve. I've already been to Home Depot 2 times today and I'm done with it. Piece of cake. Zoom over, get what I know I need, scan it, drive home and install.

 

They're fast. And as sad as I guess that is, sometimes I want fast. And now the grocery store has it. I'm still scratching my head over produce but I'll get there...

 

...and when I'm in the middle of cooking and find I don't have paprika? Robots are just fine sometimes.

[kurfu]

The U-scan lanes at the grocery store were fantastic unitl all the stupid people started using them, too.

 

Seriously... there should be an simple IQ test before you're allowed to use one of those things.

 

 

[Ani]

Automation???? As the world turns..... Does automation truly reduce the need for humans in the work force??? I would be curious as to how many $$$ are actually saved overall by companies that incorporate the use of automated technologies.

 

I remember when my facility brought their very first piece of automated equipment in after having ran for years on merely mechanized equipment. The promise of the future also offered years of trial and error. When I say error; I mean ERROR!!! Having been in a position to test the quality of performance on processing equipment; I can truly say that the advancements in technology are AMAZING. I can also say that the quality that "comes out" critically depends on the quality that "goes in". If the equipment is not properly maintained, a LOT can go wrong.

 

If the programmer makes an error it can cost the company thousands, if not millions, of dollars. The overall loss of revenue depends on the size of the mistake and the duration of time that elapses prior to the discovery of the error. Competence is imperative when filling positions relative to "FLOW" of automated operations. Most employees appointed or elected to these type positions will be degreed professionals or skilled and licensed laborers that can demand lucrative wages accommodating to their discipline or trade. Every now and then, a blue collar worker will get to move up the ladder through work experience; it doesn't happen very often though.

 

For the most part, the jobs that I see being replaced are those of the laborers. While eliminating the need for blue collar workers that have, in the past, catered to the needs of customers; there are other more high tech jobs generated. Entry level jobs with average salaries are being replaced by skilled labor and degreed professionals who are paid at much higher rates. Not only do you have the jobs created within the company that utilizes the automation, but there are jobs created in the manufacturing plants that supply the automated technologies as well as the software companies that develop the tools to run the automation. The equipment is not something you buy for a few grand here and there, but rather, it can easily run in the millions of dollars depending on the size of the operations. By the time you get everything tweaked just he way you want it; the technology is obsolete and it's time for upgrades to the latest and greatest.....

 

You have the programmers, the electronic technicians, the mechanics, the quality control specialists, the coordinators, the communications experts, and other higher level positions that almost outnumber the number of human laborers.....

 

Next year's greatest dream soon becomes yesterday's old news before you've even got your money's worth.... Yet, it's too easy to say that there is no need for HUMANS and that robots will rule the earth. Nah... I don't ever see it happening. People might need to readjust their career interests and go into electrical, electronic, machining, dye makers, programming, or IT, but the jobs will still be there.

[Synonym Music]

All good points...

 

But the self checkouts here are slower than Christmas because there are so many people in the store throughout so many hours of the day. If you don't hit the H-E-B at 10 or 11 AM any given day of the week, forget getting out of there quick. (and yes, Randalls and Albertsons stores are deserted more often than not, but neither are close enough).

 

Maybe I'm whining more about the population explosion in this city, but whether or not automated checkout lines are quicker can also depend greatly on the demographic. In my experience real clerks are faster than scanning - oh, and rescanning - oh and rescanning AGAIN and jamming your fingers into the touch screen to make the contraption work.

 

So... They aren't even close to being more convenient here. The grocery store's packed, and that's it.

[chipmcdonald]

Curiously ironic... From my message board, early 2004:

 

 

 

" Why I don't use the automated check-out at Kroger " It takes longer. It takes a bit to run through all of the defaults just to get the process going; then the scanning itself is slower than the scanners the clerks use; then you have to carefully place the item on the scale; then you have to scan your Kroger card... and along the way, mistakes will be made. Then, you've still got to enter your card info. Then you've *got to bag your own groceries*. A) Taking longer bugs me enough... B) Making ME bag groceries I'm buying from THEM is absurd. I find that ridiculously anti-customer oriented, massively devalueing. C) The impetus for the systems are not for customer benefit, but for the corporation's benefit: they get to layoff another employee, increasing their margin. So, by using the automated checkout, you're doing your part in helping them rip you off. D) It is anti-employment: this trend taken to the extreme - and it *will* be - reduces the capacity for society to provide employment opportunities for all skill levels. We can't have a freely functioning society under those conditions. It's not realistic and untenable, and will create a situation where slave-labor conditions will combine with the increasing need for more socialistic supports - the burden of which will not be supported by the luxury/ruling class, but by the slave class. In the process, it will prevent those caught in the slave class from being able to rise out of it. E) It helps foster acceptance of people being treated as non-entities, which will have more repercussions as time goes by. Sorry, you won't find me shuffling in the line like a lemming in some Orwellian film awaiting my turn at the Goods Exchange Machine, *telling me what to do*. How often does a machine tell you what to do everyday? The ATM machine tells you what to do. The car wash machine. Pull up at Taco Bell, and you're asked by a machine to try something YOU DIDN'T ASK FOR. Pick up the phone and a machine is calling you to tell you to do something else with your time other than you choose. Try to call someone, and a machine tells you what to do before you talk to a person - even *if you able to actually talk to a real person*. On and on.... I love technology. I don't like being told what to do (surprise). There are plans for more pervasive technologies that will usurp our ability to control our daily lives; and eventually AI will emerge, and we'll really have problems.

 

 

post-script

 

I've relented. They've become ubiquitous, and there is no point wasting energy being a "One Man Protest". As we now know, they *have* replaced a lot of employees: part of the reason I've relented is that you can't really use a grocery store anymore without using them, since most of the time they only have one person at a register these days - and in some cases, they have no humans at all.

 

I will blithely use as many bags as I feel like to hold my groceries, however. If they don't like it, they can go back to manually bagging my groceries for me....

 

....Actually, I suppose a lot of things have "won" since 2004 that has made a lot of my political leanings moot at this point, but that's another story.

 

The Crack Kroger is still a greatly amusing topic, though:

 

http://chipmcdonald.com/wordpress/2007/01/11/brita-filter-and-milk-run/

[Ani]

I will blithely use as many bags as I feel like to hold my groceries, however. If they don't like it, they can go back to manually bagging my groceries for me....

I hate it when the grocers do not double bag my canned goods.

 

I'm an OVERLY honest person, too honest some say, but I've often wondered how many people cheat the auto checker and get by with it. From an analytical point of view, it seems there would be too many ways to circumvent accurate pricing of items. Sure the automated system can detect whether or not you have placed an item in the bag, or whether an item has been placed in the bag without scanning it, but.... what is to keep a person from conducting a slight of hand when scanning the merchandise? Shoplifting???? Of course..... but something that might not be quite as obvious as stuffing product underneath a garment or otherwise.

 

Without human contact, who's to say that the customer is entering the correct product code when weighing fresh produce. It seems that it would be all too simple to enter the wrong product code of a lesser priced item for more expensive items. I don't know how extremely sophisticated the technology is, but it would have to be incredibly advanced to give the exact weight of items attached to every product code. The live person at the hub for the self service checkouts is not capable of watching to see that every individual actually keys in the right code for fresh fruit or produce; especially if the checkouts are busy. The technology would have to be connected to live surveillance cameras that could distinguish exactly what shape, size, and/or color was connected to every product code; that's pretty hi-tech and would almost require an additional live body to oversee all transactions.

 

I've also wondered what would keep teenagers from picking up a bottle of whiskey, scanning a bottle of juice weighing about the same, and placing the bottle of whiskey in the bag as opposed to the juice. Rowdy kids will go to the extremes to get booze underage.... I wouldn't try it, but it would certainly be interesting to see the process of grocer automated technologies from a Quality Control point of view. It would be interesting to see how many shoppers are honest in all of their transactions. Probably most are, but of those that aren't; how many get caught and how tight is the grocers security to prevent loss?

 

I, personally, always go through the check-outs where HUMAN checkers scan the items. Someone else can soak up the laser rays.

[halljams]

 

1. I say the stores are saving money, health insurance and liability of putting up with a human. Audioicon/Patrick

 

Yeah so, business is business.

Get over it.

Why don't you plant a garden and raise your own cattle, then you won't have to go to the store.

Why don't you stop reading ridiculously stupid fabricated new articles.

 

You are acting as a catalyst for negative thought and discussion with most of these posts you make about trivial doo doo.

 

Surely you can search a bit harder and find a significantly bigger picture to discuss, these things you post are lowly and common and exactly what the evil powers want to dwell on. Keep you out of the way.

 

If you are gonna have an Avatar of a guy doing some serious thinking, do some serious thinking for christ's sake.

[G Geezer]

Rarely ever use them because:

1. I usually have a six pack or bottle of wine (the machine has to request a human to check if I'm old enough)

2. Most of the time I'm writing a Paper Check (Yes I have a debit card, but sometimes I'm just an old trouble maker :)

 

 

But I have used the quicklane at Home Despot when I just have to get a pack of bolts etc...........

[audioicon]

 

Yeah so, business is business. Get over it. Why don't you plant a garden and raise your own cattle, then you won't have to go to the store. Why don't you stop reading ridiculously stupid fabricated new articles. You are acting as a catalyst for negative thought and discussion with most of these posts you make about trivial doo doo. Surely you can search a bit harder and find a significantly bigger picture to discuss, these things you post are lowly and common and exactly what the evil powers want to dwell on. Keep you out of the way. If you are gonna have an Avatar of a guy doing some serious thinking, do some serious thinking for christ's sake.

 

 

WOW! Are you posting from psychiatric hospital, did you take your meds?

Don't read anything I post, simple. Save yourself the headache.

 

Even though you appear psychotic, I still admire your courage and views of my post. So Rock on!

 

AI