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Simple Way To Send Multiple MIDI Patch Change Messages


ggm1960

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I've been using a laptop running Sonar with a Hercules firewire interface just to send program change messages to several outboard units between songs. Not only is this time consuming and prone to typical computer problems, it's also like using a sledgehammer to kill a fly.

 

There has got to be a simpler way! I've been looking at the Behringer FCB1010 MIDI foot controller which looks like it might do what I need (send MIDI program change messages on several MIDI channels at once). Are there other possible solutions?

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Doesn't Sonar have a sequencer? Can that sequencer record commands? ;)

 

Pro-level keyboards, especially the Romplers, have 4 or more simultaneous channels going at the same time. When one of the Combis/Multis/etc. is selected, each layer/channel can send any number of MIDI messages, including Program Change.

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What ggm is looking for is a pedal or other item with enough brains to record, then later transmit on command, a series of patch changes. The problem with a laptop is reliability and dependability - - it runs Windows, and so is far away from either of these. At least, too far away to rely on it for live work.

 

What it needs is enough brains to allow you to store multiple program changes and/or sysex messages in one 'patch', then be able to send the data from that 'patch' out with a one or two foot-tap command, or maybe trigger it with a midi event .

 

An example of this would be if you have a fair number of rack processors and/or synths that each require their own patch changes for a given song, and you want to set up all of them with 1 or 2 foot taps on a pedal, so you can rapidly jump from one song to the next easily.

 

If this thing had more brains, it would probably do the job. this

But, judging from the manual, it doesn't.

 

This one appears to have enough brains to handle up to 32 different songs. It runs about $190. But no pedal input. It is midi triggered.

 

There are probably other ones out there too...

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Here's a little more detail about the setup I have and what I would prefer to have.

This is for live performance. I'm doing 90% of the vocals and switching between keyboards and guitar so there's no doubt that my hands are full to begin with. I love to use computers.......at home. The few times I've tried it at gigs I've found it to be a real pain in the ass.

 

I've created a file in Sonar for each song we do. Each track in the file corresponds to an outboard peice of gear. All this file is really doing when I open it is to send MIDI program change messages to the gear I'm using:

Roland Fantom XR

Roland XP-30

Korg X5D

Antares AVP-1

Lexicon MX200

Digitech RP2000

 

These units are set to respond to patch changes on different channels. For example I load Magaritaville.cwp;

 

Track 1 = Antares AVP-1, program change to 10 is sent on ch 2 where I have a G major autotune preset.

 

Track 2 = Digitech RP-2000, program change to 1 is sent on ch 3 where a clean guitar preset is.

 

Track 3 = XP-30, program change to 79 is sent on ch 4 where the steel drum patch is.

 

Track 4 = Fantom XR, program change to 15 is sent on channel 5 where the Fantom's wurly sound is.

 

etc.....

 

So.....I'm hauling a laptop/firewire interface and dealing with the associated software/hardware problems just to send program change messages!

 

What I need is a unit into which I can put presets to make those program changes by pushing a button or stepping on a footswitch.

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Pro-level keyboards, especially the Romplers, have 4 or more simultaneous channels going at the same time. When one of the Combis/Multis/etc. is selected, each layer/channel can send any number of MIDI messages, including Program Change.

 

 

Hmmmmmm............Roland........Performance Mode.........? Maybe that could work?!

 

I'm going to need to do some experimenting here, it sure would be a great solution if I could get this done WITHOUT having to BUY more gear to HAUL around.

 

Thanks for sparking some brain cells.

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Hmmmmmm............Roland........Performance Mode.........? Maybe that could work?!


I'm going to need to do some experimenting here, it sure would be a great solution if I could get this done WITHOUT having to BUY more gear to HAUL around.


Thanks for sparking some brain cells.

 

 

The XP-30 can have 32 user Performances of 16 parts. The XR can store up to 32. You can also use the footswitch to advance through the Performances.

 

Call up a Performance (one per song is a good place to start) and all of your gear will be configured as you wish. Sometimes, you may find a song needs two or more Performances, but that's easily dealt with.

 

You've got all the gear you need.

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The XP-30 can have 32 user Performances of 16 parts. The XR can store up to 32. You can also use the footswitch to advance through the Performances.


Call up a Performance (one per song is a good place to start) and all of your gear will be configured as you wish. Sometimes, you may find a song needs two or more Performances, but that's easily dealt with.


You've got all the gear you need.

 

 

Yes! A quick test has proven that this could be a viable solution. Although 32 user locations is a bit of a limitation I think I can work around that, plus I believe the Fantom XR actually has 64.

 

I think I've been so wrapped up in using computers for everything for the last 15 years that I tend to completely overlook the great potential hidden right there in the hardware I already have!

 

Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

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Here's a potential solution (maybe)-Reaarange all the patches on all of your devices in numerical order as needed for your performance. Choose one device with a next patch switch to be your master controller for patch changes. Distribute or chain the Midi output of your master to all the other devices. if everything is configured correctly (you might need to change Midi channels onthe devices), by going to the next patch on your master should also make all of your other devices go to the next patch.

 

If that doesn't work for you, you could use an old fashioned style hardware sequencer to send out the patch change messages.

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Here's a potential solution (maybe)-Reaarange all the patches on all of your devices in numerical order as needed for your performance. Choose one device with a next patch switch to be your master controller for patch changes. Distribute or chain the Midi output of your master to all the other devices. if everything is configured correctly (you might need to change Midi channels onthe devices), by going to the next patch on your master should also make all of your other devices go to the next patch.


If that doesn't work for you, you could use an old fashioned style hardware sequencer to send out the patch change messages.

 

 

That would be great, and simple, if I could do that but it's just not practical for several reasons. First, all the gear doesn't have the same amount of user presets (the Antares only has 35, this is a real limitation for that method). Another problem is that you'd end up with a lot of redundant presets (not a real problem yet it's not really necessary), for example say you're using piano on song 3 and then 5 songs further down the list you need piano again.

 

As Prog brought up I can do what needs to be done with what I have. It's going to be time consuming and somewhat complex to get it all going but once over the initial setup hump it should really work smoothly.

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Use this
with the Behringer Pedal.

 

 

Actually, Philbo came along with that program and I was using it to load files in Sonar from the XP-30's number pad. I'd even sent the guy a postcard and had my version registered.

 

Eliminating the need for the computer though still is the preferable solution, it's just to much hassle in our live cover band situation.

 

I've put together a spread sheet in Excel to help me get my Roland Performance mode settings right and I'll use the SoundDiver program to get them into the keyboard's brain, then, God willing, I should be off and running and able to actually enjoy the gigs.

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Ive got a roland midi program change foot pedal from the mid 90's. If i recall correctly it has 8 pedals to send 8 program change numbers when tapped.

And.. it doesnt require windoze to run.

Im not sure if they still offer it.

 

Something like that was what I thought I was looking for until I figured out I could use the synths I am already hauling.

 

I did run into a wall though tonight.......

I thought I was going to take advantage of the Fantom XR having 64 user performance locations, however, it appears that the XR WILL NOT transmit program change messages and now I'll have to go back to the XP-30 with 32 :cry:

 

I do still have the JV-1080 perhaps I can incorporate........

When it comes to tech there always seem to be a glitch somewhere!

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