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  • 16 bar loop legal?

    I mentioned some time ago that I wanted to Jam to "Birds of Fire". I've decided to jam to a BOF loop instead and perhaps create an entirely new piece. I've extracted the section from the first violin stroke by Jan Hammer to just before Billy Cobham comes in on the drums. If this were in a "normal" time it might be considered a 16 bar phrase. I then plan to add some synth leads and editing. I will probably never make this into a CD but I think it will be entertaining as a youtube entry.

    So my question. Is 16 bars too long and will the record company come after me?

    I see rappers do this all of the time.

    Dan
    http://musicinit.com/fastfingers.php An Experiment in 80's Technology

    http://youtube.com/techristian My YOUTUBE channel
    Music videos at http://musicinit.com/video.php

  • #2
    Of course you can do this for personal use.

    If you issue this commercially, you have to obtain a license from the record label.
    doug osborne | my day job

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    • #3
      What Doug said. Contact the Harry Fox agency if you intend to anything commercial with your extracted loop.

      I hope the violin stroke was by Jerry Goodman though.
      Music for your busy day.

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      • #4
        The rappers pay for the loops Dan.
        Well...most of them do, once they are
        successful enough to be published.

        Nice choice for a loop though.

        Which song did you take the loop from?

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        • #5
          Can't you re-record the lopp with real instruments or a little help from others? That way you have no problems.
          Don't Eat The Yellow Snow. Don't Eat The Yellow Snow.

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          • #6
            What Doug said. Contact the Harry Fox agency if you intend to anything commercial with your extracted loop.

            I hope the violin stroke was by Jerry Goodman though.


            I'm sure Jan has a keyboard somewhere with some violin like sounds -- if only an old Elka.

            Nice catch.
            .

            music and social links | recent listening

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            • #7
              Of course you can do this for personal use.

              If you issue this commercially, you have to obtain a license from the record label.


              I suspect that if you asked the RIAA, they'd say you have to obtain a license even for personal use, even for half a bar.

              Or they'd sue you just for asking.
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              • #8
                You can't without permission ($$$). It's written both on any medium and in YouTube rules.
                http://www.spacemuse.com/http://cdbaby.com/cd/damoranatalehttp://payplay.fm/damoranataleiTunes"Art is the magic freed from the lie of being truth."Theodor Wiesengrund Adorno.

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                • #9
                  Can't you re-record the lopp with real instruments or a little help from others? That way you have no problems.


                  'fraid not Boosh. If I re-record someone else's song, it's still their intellectual property, and I am still obligated to pay them royalties if I release it commercially. Even if you only grab a short segment, you can still get nailed if you don't have a license - as happened to the Beatles for including a re-recorded sax playing the opening riff of Glenn Miller's In The Mood at the end of All You Need Is Love.
                  **********

                  "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

                  - George Carlin

                  "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

                  - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                  "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

                  - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

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                  • #10
                    My question is, and I'm just asking, why go to all this trouble, instead, just write a new piece of music in that style and groove, it's your music and forget all about the rights and giving people money for using a loop... to my way of thinking, it's easier to write a new piece of music, so why don't people do this??

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                    • #11
                      My question is, and I'm just asking, why go to all this trouble, instead, just write a new piece of music in that style and groove, it's your music and forget all about the rights and giving people money for using a loop... to my way of thinking, it's easier to write a new piece of music, so why don't people do this??


                      And that is just precisely what I'm going to do ! I'm not going to waste countless hours producing something which I never can release.

                      I was getting all ready with the loop but any hope of that was squashed by the replies on this thread.

                      YES as musicians we need copyright but if this logic had been applied to patents , we would all still be driving a model A . In patents , if a sizable percentage is changed from the original then the resultant design is considered NEW .

                      Dan
                      http://musicinit.com/fastfingers.php An Experiment in 80's Technology

                      http://youtube.com/techristian My YOUTUBE channel
                      Music videos at http://musicinit.com/video.php

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                      • #12
                        Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a difference between re-playing something and sampling from an actual recording? I always thought that to "re-record" a phrase or even a whole song a compulsory license is sufficient (as long as you pay Harry Fox), compared to sampling, which you have to get permission from the owner of the recording (as in opposed to just the publishing holder), which in most cases is the record company?

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                        • #13
                          YES as musicians we need copyright but if this logic had been applied to patents , we would all still be driving a model A . In patents , if a sizable percentage is changed from the original then the resultant design is considered NEW .

                          Dan


                          I don't think that equates.

                          "if a sizable percentage is changed from the original, then the resultant design is considered NEW"

                          How do you change a "sizable percentage" of a loop? The loop is what it is, regardless of what you pile on top. James Brown grooves are still James Brown grooves, no matter what kind of rap goes over the groove.

                          OTOH, think about a patented technology that is licensed. Toyota is licensing their hybrid automobile technology. The car might be a Nissan or Ford or whatever, but that's just other stuff piled on top of the drivetrain, which is licensed and Toyota got paid for. But Honda developed their own hybrid technology, which does essentially the same thing as the Toyota system, but is still distinct and therefore not something they license from Toyota.

                          But for your situation, unless you plan to issue 1,000,000 copies or something, the licensing fees for a small number of units can be quite reasonable and you should look into it if you really want to do something with that music.
                          Music for your busy day.

                          All the info you need.

                          Be my friend?

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                          • #14
                            The loop is what it is, regardless of what you pile on top. James Brown grooves are still James Brown grooves, no matter what kind of rap goes over the groove.


                            Check it out, Bill answered tradivoro's question.

                            Bottom line: You could recreate a James Brown groove, but would it groove?
                            If it ain't James Brown, it ain't James Brown.
                            RIP: Nite Owl Jazz

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                            • #15


                              How do you change a "sizable percentage" of a loop? The loop is what it is, regardless of what you pile on top. James Brown grooves are still James Brown grooves, no matter what kind of rap goes over the groove.



                              True but I'm not planning a RAP tune. In a RAP tune the only music will be from the loop. I'm planning on starting with the loop and MY drums and then adding my own lead lines. There will even be long breaks where the sampled loop won't even be heard. What you are describing already happened TO me. Puff Daddy used music from my tune "Things of this World " in "his" tune "Shake ya tail featha" He never added any other music !! RAP vocals aren't musical . It is just like reciting poetry with drums.

                              Dan
                              http://musicinit.com/fastfingers.php An Experiment in 80's Technology

                              http://youtube.com/techristian My YOUTUBE channel
                              Music videos at http://musicinit.com/video.php

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