Members DevilRaysFan Posted December 16, 2007 Members Share Posted December 16, 2007 I wish there was a "Fulltime Working Musician" segment of this forum...... No offense to anybody, but fulltimers objectives to live music - everything from money priorities (the value of our dollar), how songs are picked, equipment, to a million other things - are usually way different than the hobbyist player, ..... and we do approach things waaaay different (because we do this as a livelihood, not just for fun)............There is no right or wrong here, just different points of view and it would be nice to converse with like-kind people........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rasputin1963 Posted December 16, 2007 Members Share Posted December 16, 2007 Now you've left each of us wondering if he might be the one to whom you're referring, not quite up to your snuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DevilRaysFan Posted December 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 16, 2007 Now you've left each of us wondering if he might be the one to whom you're referring, not quite up to your snuff... There is no "up to snuff"...I hope it didnt come out that way,.. thats why the last sentence clarifies that there is "no right or wrong here", but it would be nice to have a specific area where fulltimers can talk with other fulltime musicians and bounce off ideas that can help each other as opposed to talking about music-related issues that have their musical priorities and objectives completely different.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 I think Craig considers himself to be a full time musician. In many ways, I consider myself as such, although I spend more time "playing" the studio and working with bands as I do playing IN them, or playing live. You never know who you might be talking to, or how many folks who read and / or participate here are full-timers. Maybe start a thread asking other full-time musicians for their input about XYZ and see what happens... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DevilRaysFan Posted December 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 16, 2007 I think Craig considers himself to be a full time musician. In many ways, I consider myself as such, although I spend more time "playing" the studio and working with bands as I do playing IN them, or playing live. You never know who you might be talking to, or how many folks who read and / or participate here are full-timers. Maybe start a thread asking other full-time musicians for their input about XYZ and see what happens... True -- I guess Im just thinking from the club "trenches" point-of-view-- The Working Stiff, if you will -- I keep forgetting that "fulltimer" can apply all up and down the live/studio/creative lab arts totem-pole ( with me at the bottom )............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Lozada Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 ... and have you tried the "BackStage With The Band" forum ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DevilRaysFan Posted December 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 16, 2007 ... and have you tried the "BackStage With The Band" forum ? Yup -- Thats the closest one --- Im there quite a bit.... It seems a lot of the working stiffs gravitate there................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Lozada Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 That is good! But I have to agree with Phil, many of us are actual full time musicians, so do not be shy and ask whatever you need to know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted December 16, 2007 Members Share Posted December 16, 2007 I wish there was a "Fulltime Working Musician" segment of this forum...... No offense to anybody, but fulltimers objectives to live music - everything from money priorities (the value of our dollar), how songs are picked, equipment, to a million other things - are usually way different than the hobbyist player, and sometimes I feel like Im talking Martian to some of you people who dont realize that there are still plenty of us out there who have made a career of live music..... and we do approach things waaaay different (because we do this as a livelihood, not just for fun)............There is no right or wrong here, just different points of view and it would be nice to converse with like-kind people........... I often wish there were a Full time pro section as well because when your living depends on music no matter what, your perspective is skewed compared to people who do it for fun, or fans and sometimes it's tough to get others to understand where you are coming from as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tedster Posted December 16, 2007 Members Share Posted December 16, 2007 And there are also probably more than a few of us who now count as "hobbyists" who used to gig full time, although in some cases, if that was years ago...our take isn't as relative or fresh anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dave Martin Posted December 16, 2007 Members Share Posted December 16, 2007 ...and some of us are still working full time in the music industry (such as it's become) while not actually making the largest percentage of our incomes with an instrument in our hands and a drummer to our right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gary in NJ Posted December 16, 2007 Members Share Posted December 16, 2007 I'm a part timer that would enjoy reading the POV of the working professionals. Go ahead, I promise not to post anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted December 16, 2007 Members Share Posted December 16, 2007 Stormtrooper- I think you would be surprised how many people here are the real deal... meaning, they know their stuff. Just start your threads! Peace,EB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DevilRaysFan Posted December 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 16, 2007 Stormtrooper-I think you would be surprised how many people here are the real deal... meaning, they know their stuff. Just start your threads! Peace,EB I guess I should have been a little more specific: I was referring to an area for people that play music fulltime for a living in club bands, corporate bands, wedding bands, showbands, and the like ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members D Charles Posted December 17, 2007 Members Share Posted December 17, 2007 Well, I was a band leader for years and years. Due to me getting old and my local market going straight to hell and DJs, I don't gig anymore, but I did for years and I can certainly give you tips for flying your gear (pre 911), building and putting together PAs and lighting, midi for lights, effects changes etc., hiring people who can travel, band moral, reliable box trucks, making snakes, speaker cabs, lighting boxes, racks, etc etc etc. Might be old school but it worked at one time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members roadscholar Posted December 17, 2007 Members Share Posted December 17, 2007 I wish there was a "Fulltime Working Musician" segment of this forum...... No offense to anybody, but fulltimers objectives to live music - everything from money priorities (the value of our dollar), how songs are picked, equipment, to a million other things - are usually way different than the hobbyist player, ..... and we do approach things waaaay different (because we do this as a livelihood, not just for fun)............There is no right or wrong here, just different points of view and it would be nice to converse with like-kind people........... I hear where you're coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DevilRaysFan Posted December 17, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 17, 2007 I'm a part timer that would enjoy reading the POV of the working professionals. Go ahead, I promise not to post anything. Wow - I just keep back-petaling on this thread-- I somehow feel like Ive offended people here and that was not my intent (apologies in advance) As Mr Phil mentioned, there is all kinds of Fulltime Players - like studio cats and soundmen, but this HC Forum has a Recording/Live Sound module. There are also fulltime songwriters, and there is a "Songwriting" module. For guys that make "Samples and Loops", there is the computer modules available - but there isnt a designated area for fulltime working-stiff musicians (club, corporate, wedding, cruise-ship, theme park, etc bands, singles, and duos) I got the idea from posting in the Robot Guitar thread because I realized how not much in common - with the exception of music - that I dont have with a lot of people that post here. It got me to start thinking about my own situations: there is one band that I sub for frequently - these guys are hobbyist players, one of which is a huge guitar collector. They are great guys and I enjoy their company, but they work hi-six figure per year dayjobs so their approach to music and their livelihoods do not depend on it, and this trickles down to how they play and their approach to any gigging situation. I love each of these guys, but when they pick songs, they dont think about "what will work" at the venue they are hired for, but rather for personal reasons such as guitar solos. I did a ( hi-dollar, mind you) wedding reception with these guys and they approached it like it was "Them In Concert Plus A Wedding Reception" rather than try to fulfill the needs of the client ( I got paid, but I'll leave it at that)...and these are just a couple of many facets of why I think a Working Stiff module would be relevent: Not just for posts of fulltime gigging stiffs to share ideas, but so part-timers/hobbyists and fulltimer vets can share their points of view - both sides can learn a lot from each other ...anyway, I just thought Id toss that out there. If it happens "Great", if not - Well, this is easily still the best forum on the net - hands down - so it doesnt take anything away from it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted December 17, 2007 Members Share Posted December 17, 2007 Wow - I just keep back-petaling on this thread-- I somehow feel like Ive offended people here and that was not my intent (apologies in advance)As Mr Phil mentioned, there is all kinds of Fulltime Players - like studio cats and soundmen, but this HC Forum has a Recording/Live Sound module. There are also fulltime songwriters, and there is a "Songwriting" module. For guys that make "Samples and Loops", there is the computer modules available - but there isnt a designated area for fulltime working-stiff musicians (club, corporate, wedding, cruise-ship, theme park, etc bands, singles, and duos)I got the idea from posting in the Robot Guitar thread because I realized how not much in common - with the exception of music - that I dont have with a lot of people that post here. It got me to start thinking about my own situations: there is one band that I sub for frequently - these guys are hobbyist players, one of which is a huge guitar collector. They are great guys and I enjoy their company, but they work hi-six figure per year dayjobs so their approach to music and their livelihoods do not depend on it, and this trickles down to how they play and their approach to any gigging situation. I love each of these guys, but when they pick songs, they dont think about "what will work" at the venue they are hired for, but rather for personal reasons such as guitar solos. I did a ( hi-dollar, mind you) wedding reception with these guys and they approached it like it was "Them In Concert Plus A Wedding Reception" rather than try to fulfill the needs of the client ( I got paid, but I'll leave it at that)...and these are just a couple of many facets of why I think a Working Stiff module would be relevent: Not just for posts of fulltime gigging stiffs to share ideas, but so part-timers/hobbyists and fulltimer vets can share their points of view - both sides can learn a lot from each other...anyway, I just thought Id toss that out there. If it happens "Great", if not - Well, this is easily still the best forum on the net - hands down - so it doesnt take anything away from it I agree with you totally But most people on here fancy themselves as full timers..Whether they really are or are not or were or were not or are doing or have done what you and I do, I'll leave that up to everyone else to decide. I've Identified a few contemporaries and former ones around these forums and it's enough for me to pose questions. There are more hobbiests and or Fans on here though and that's cool too. I do want a dedicated PRO venue for us to exchange ideas, strategies though..cut through all the bull{censored} type of place though..I haven't seen one out there though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DevilRaysFan Posted December 17, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 17, 2007 I'll even offer to be a Mod if they consider it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the-good-way Posted December 17, 2007 Members Share Posted December 17, 2007 Wow - I just keep back-petaling on this thread-- I somehow feel like Ive offended people here and that was not my intent (apologies in advance) I don't think people on the forum are taking offense, rather, just that the parameters may be skewed to your personal perspective As an example, you mention... True -- I guess Im just thinking from the club "trenches" point-of-view-- The Working Stiff, if you will this could apply more to the pop/rock genres than, say, classical/early music genres wherein "the trenches"..even as a performing instrumentalist aren't in "the clubs", but they are just as muddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DevilRaysFan Posted December 17, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 17, 2007 I don't think people on the forum are taking offense, rather, just that the parameters may be skewed to your personal perspective As an example, you mention... True -- I guess Im just thinking from the club "trenches" point-of-view-- The Working Stiff, if you will this could apply more to the pop/rock genres than, say, classical/early music genres wherein "the trenches"..even as a performing instrumentalist aren't in "the clubs", but they are just as muddy ...Yes, I agree, and I was certainly thinking any genre/period of music........I apologize if it didnt come out that way....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the-good-way Posted December 17, 2007 Members Share Posted December 17, 2007 By no means! (is an apology needed) rather, I pointed to the "in the trenches" as an example of an area, where even in performance (let alone the other caraeers of a musician) we can diverge. In some cases, the part-time "supplemental/hobby bar band" can have more in common with the "full-time club band" than would, say, your "full-time club band" and your professional pipe organist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DevilRaysFan Posted December 17, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 17, 2007 By no means! (is an apology needed)rather, I pointed to the "in the trenches" as an example of an area, where even in performance (let alone the other caraeers of a musician) we can diverge.In some cases, the part-time "supplemental/hobby bar band" can have more in common with the "full-time club band" than would, say, your "full-time club band" and your professional pipe organist Once again, I agree - this is why I said that both sides can learn from each other in Post #17........ Trust me, Im not arrogant enough to believe that just because Im a long-time vet doesnt mean that I think I know everything - Far from it - Hobby players bring a certain fire and with that fire comes great ideas that vets wouldnt think of......... a lot of vets get caught up in the trap of their own complacency.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the-good-way Posted December 17, 2007 Members Share Posted December 17, 2007 Certainly! like gus was mentioning in post #6, this is where the "backstage" forum can be of good use Someties the "full-timers" and the "part-timers" of a particular genre may have more alignment in temrs of job-type, venue, etc sometimes the "full-timers" across genre may have more in common than "part-timers" sometimes the line may be union/non-union, tenured/nontenured (in orchestra or acadmenics), instructor/non-instructor, degreed/non-degreed, or any number of things (even cost-of-instrument -- an electric guitar player, for instance, may feel $5000-6000 is a lot for an instrument, but not so the basoonist or the double bassist) the "backstage" forum gives us a chance to cross-pollinate on those things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the-good-way Posted December 17, 2007 Members Share Posted December 17, 2007 Trust me, Im not arrogant enough to believe that just because Im a long-time vet doesnt mean that I think I know everything My aplogies if it seemed so -- I wasn't implying such a lot of vets get caught up in the trap of their own complacency.............. we can also get caught up in our perspective, not just complacency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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