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My friendly letter to Southwest Airlines

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  • #31

    BTW, I've met plenty of Canadians who get cheesed off when they are asked if they are Americans when traveling overseas.


    I guess Boosh would get seriously offended if he was called "german" either


    ... and do not ever call me "guatemalan" or anything like that

    (just kidding)
    www.guslozada.com

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    • #32
      I always thought you were Lozadamalan. My bad!
      _____________________________________________
      There are now 14 music videos posted on my YouTube channel, including four songs by Mark Longworth. Watch the music video playlist, subscribe, and spread the links! Check back often, because there's more to come...

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      • #34
        My Brit wife gets asked if she's Australian every other day. Or... "Kiwi? Not Australian. Kiwi! Right?!??!"

        My Mexican American buddy gets shouted at when Caucasians assume he doesn't speak English. The fact is he doesn't speak Spanish. I guess shouting helps in translating?

        When in Japan, the locals thought I was going to eat their children. They had that look of suspicion. And in reality, I was just their to deflower their legal aged daughters.

        When in Baja, I'm seen by the locals as a big $.

        Prejudice is all around us. Sometimes it takes the form of hatred and malice. Other times it is simply innocent ignorance.
        ___

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        • #35
          One thing I've found fascinating about this thread are the folks who've jumped in to tell Zeronyne how he should feel about this situation. Obviously (to me anyway), if he felt like he was being singled out based on his race, that's something that needs to be brought to the attention of the entity that was responsible.

          Also obvious to me is the ridiculousness of folks who claim that they'd feel differently, when only a small percentage of you have ever been in a position to experience those feelings (Gus, our house Mexican, excepted).

          "This is what's wrong with America", Terry? I'm sure I can think of fifty things wrong with America before getting to oversensitivity. Whether white folks like it or not, we live in a place where within the last couple hundred years, we've been responsible for some atrocious ****************, and then we call minorities oversensitive when they raise questions about disturbing patterns of behavior.

          If anything's wrong with America, perhaps it's the defensive attitude when asked to acknowledge the events of the past and act accordingly.
          <div class="signaturecontainer"><font size="2"><i><font color="Green"><a href="http://www.zakclaxton.com/" target="_blank">Music, thoughts, stuff, and... I guess that's all</a></font></i></font></div>

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          • #36
            I never fly. I prefer to drive, so I wasn't aware of the Exit row rule. Given that, I agree with Craig that the attendant should have asked everyone. But I don't consider asking someone if they speak English to be offensive. Especially on a flight, I'd imagine you get international passengers all the time. It's not like she assumed since 0-9 was Asian that he therefore must know Karate and be a wiz at math. But I do have a problem with her not asking everyone and just assuming.

            Now what would be interesting would be to talk to her and find out how often she has asked that question of Caucasians and been told 'yes', and asked that question of non-Caucasians and been told 'no'.

            Mostly that people don't ever like being treated differently based on any physical aspect of their appearance.


            People don't want to have limitations or definitions placed upon them because of their appearance. That doesn't mean they don't want to be treated differently. They may want special accommodations under certain circumstances.

            Women don't want to pee in the same room with the guys
            Blind people might want a menu in brail
            Non-english speaker might want an interpreter, and so on.



            I think folks from the Midwest often have the most trouble with this, because so much of the population is of one race/religion/background in one area. Here in Los Angeles, we have the highest racial diversity in the nation, so from day one, you're used to seeing all kinds of different people mixed together in the same place.


            mmmkay. Well, maybe it's that West coasters just assume they're more enlightened than us backward folk in the fly-over states???
            I don't think I'm all that atypical of Midwesterners. I've got Chicago roughly an hour SE of me. I spent 4+ years at a University living among a large Indian/Asian and to a lesser degree, black population. True, the Midwest is a pretty big area, but I've traveled much of it and you meet all kinds. I can't imagine it's much different from anywhere else. There are those who only see what is different from them, and those who don't.


            None of it has made me walk on eggshells around anyone, though. I guess most of the stuff about treating people how I'd like to be treated has mostly been second nature to me, so I really never worry about it, and have never had a problem in this regard.


            Right. So why would you need sensitivity training? It's all golden rule stuff. I took required class in college on sensitivity. It was insulting. It was a total guilt dump on white people. Yeah, I'm white. I can't help what some other white folks have done. All I can do is control my own behavior.
            We all know not to stereotype people. And as for those who have a mindset that puts people in boxes and labels them, my experience has taught me that know amount of "training" is going to change their minds. Actually, it seems to have the reverse affect.
            <div class="signaturecontainer"><b>Super 8 </b><br />
            <br />
            <font color="Blue">In memory of our fellow drummer and forum friend, Cheeseadiddle-Nov 2008</font><br />
            <br />
            <i>&quot;The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.&quot;<br />
            -- George Bernard Shaw</i></div>

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            • #37
              Whether white folks like it or not, we live in a place where within the last couple hundred years, we've been responsible for some atrocious ****************, and then we call minorities oversensitive when they raise questions about disturbing patterns of behavior.


              Where do you get this "we" crap? I haven't done anything to anyone. Nobody in my family and no one I know has hurt anyone. How am I responsible?
              I read about violence among low income blacks in my local paper everyday. I happen to work with a lot of black people, most of whom don't have much money. I don't go around check to make sure my wallet is still there, or worrying if my car has been stolen.

              You just got done telling me about judging people based on appearance, and now because I happen to be white I'm somehow responsible for some atrocious ****************. Gimme a break, dude!

              There's another thread here about how people see Americans. There are all of these assumptions about us. And here are all of these Americans jumping up and saying; "No, we're just like everyone else! There's a diversity!". Which is it, Jeff?
              <div class="signaturecontainer"><b>Super 8 </b><br />
              <br />
              <font color="Blue">In memory of our fellow drummer and forum friend, Cheeseadiddle-Nov 2008</font><br />
              <br />
              <i>&quot;The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.&quot;<br />
              -- George Bernard Shaw</i></div>

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              • #38



                Man that don't get me offended at all.
                Germans,Dutch,Swedish,.... we all are from the same tribe,...we look alike and with a little effort we can understand eachothers language....

                What offends me is the fact that Because I'm a tall blond blue eyed Dutch guy people always assume I'm prejudiced,.. a racist and some even get mad at me because our ancestors,...(not mine - they were farmers) took people from Africa and killed Native Americans.

                The frikkin whining and complaining of women and minorities have led to a positive discrimination in my country,...which means that Minority groups and females have more chance to get some jobs because otherwise they feel discriminated.

                And now here I am, 36 years old and perfectly healthy but with only 20 hours a week work because the government told companies to give more jobs to others.

                Now who's discriminated here?

                Is this the fault of the minorities or women? No,...

                Am I prejudiced? No,...

                I asked Jeff Kloppmeyer once if he was Jewish,... was that because I hate jews? No,... It was because I was just curious.

                What gets me sooooo tired is that every time a caucasian asks something or does something that can be explained a little bit differently Colored people or people from other races are immideatly offended and think it's because we are racists or prejudiced.

                I HATE TWO THINGS IN LIFE!

                1) RACISM
                2) PEOPLE FROM SOUTH AMERICA
                <div class="signaturecontainer">Don't Eat The Yellow Snow.<div align="center">Don't Eat The Yellow Snow.</div></div>

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                • #39
                  You are a sage Boosh. I love it.
                  ___

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                  • #40
                    You know, with threads like this there are really two subjects: our friend and the issue that upset our friend.

                    The knee jerk response in forum culture is to respond to the issue. We discuss issues in almost every thread. Our interest in discussing issues is part of what brought us here in the first place.

                    But when a friend is upset, perhaps we should set aside our desire to discuss the issue for once and focus on our friend's needs. I believe that zeronyne was hoping for our support, and I think he left disappointed and more frustrated than when he arrived.

                    Even though many people here disagreed with his reason for being upset, it's still possible to support a friend with whom you disagree. I'm sure none of us was happy to see zeronyne in pain over this incident. I'd bet it would help to express sympathy in cases like this, so that our friend can feel emotionally supported whether we support him on the issue at hand or not.

                    Even if we feel compelled to address the issue as well, we can still at least say, "Regardless of whether I agree with you about this, you're my friend and I have sympathy for your frustration about this" or something to that effect.

                    Anyway, that's my suggestion, which as always, you're free to take or leave.

                    Best,

                    Geoff
                    Enthusiasm powers the world.

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                    • #41
                      You sure sound kinda defensive there, Super.
                      <div class="signaturecontainer"><font size="2"><i><font color="Green"><a href="http://www.zakclaxton.com/" target="_blank">Music, thoughts, stuff, and... I guess that's all</a></font></i></font></div>

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                      • #42
                        You know, with threads like this there are really two subjects: our friend and the issue that upset our friend.



                        I might be neither fish nor foul on it

                        I thought the post was an RFC for the letter, so I commented on it as "editor" -- not really abt the issue, not really about "support of friend" (that entanglement can compromise the editting process)

                        I was thinking and commenting in a "does the style/content match the author's stated theme?" frame of mind


                        I suppose lending that sort of help might be in the "support of a friend" vein.

                        On the gripping hand, those lending their perspective to the issue could feel their contributions are support as well (giving alternative reads on the subject, sharing their experiences, all that) -- dunno, motive and disposition can get fractal (I mean we're starting to look and motive and disposition of the participants in a discussion about motive and dispositin of others...and so does the dance continue)

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                        • #43
                          I believe that zeronyne was hoping for our support, and I think he left disappointed and more frustrated than when he arrived.


                          I never saw him ask for support anywhere in the thread. He just made his point and posted a letter he mailed to an airline company.

                          I'm sorry if he feels bad but he knew there's all kinds of people here with different opinions.

                          Leaving dissapointed and more frustrated typicals the overall mood he set in his letter.

                          People are biased and everywhere in the world racism and prejudice will be there to stay.

                          We have evolved from small tribes all over the world and it's only been since the last 2000 years all tribes got to know eachother.

                          Eventhough it is very natural for us today to speak to and see people of other color and races daily a 100 years ago this was still very different. Our brains have adapted to that very quickly our genes however still think people from other tribes are here to kill you, your kids steal your stuff and rape your wife.

                          racism is merely a way to deal with our fears for people or cultures that are not of our own kin.
                          <div class="signaturecontainer">Don't Eat The Yellow Snow.<div align="center">Don't Eat The Yellow Snow.</div></div>

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                          • #44
                            There's actually some cool neuropsych around that

                            IIRC Whalen out of Dartmouth did some neat fMRI stuff on amygdala response to in/out racial group facial photos

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                            • #45
                              I respect most of what you post, Terry, but that comparison is simply ridiculous. The level of deliberate and ignorant prejudice blacks, hispanics, asians and others are forced to deal with on a regular basis in the U.S. is cause to fight these slights or deliberate insults with some kind of response. There is no way for you to understand what it is to be assaulted in subtle and overt ways by a large number of strangers everywhere you go..


                              It's in no way demeaning to ask someone if they speak English, it's a simple question. :idk:

                              As a previous poster said, speaking English or not isn't a social ranking. Yours (and the OPs) assumption is that it's somehow an insult if you don't speak English; it's not.

                              Everyone needs to get over themselves a bit. We've come a long way from segregated drinking fountains and internment camps for Japanese Americans. Being asked if you speak English is a ridiculous thing to get upset over.

                              If this is the worst "racial profiling" the OP has experienced, he should talk to some people who have experienced REAL racial profiling - like not being able to get a cab in parts of NYC or being pulled over by the cops for "driving while black."

                              Terry D.
                              Telling Stories releases 2nd CD, see our WEBSITE! Please check out my GROUPIE STORY and Tales from the Road.

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