The IOC makes me ill...athletes face cuts for taking stand on Tibet

[UstadKhanAli]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/olympics/article3724308.ece

 

Not that I had much respect for the IOC previously, but these people are complete f*ckheads. The minute the IOC awarded one of the most brutal dictatorships in the world the Olympics on the basis of good merit, they made a political statement. The minute the IOC decided to run the torch through Tibet while the China military is rounding up monks and shooting them while keeping all international press out of Tibet, they made a political statement. Like it or not, the IOC continually makes political statements while saying that they want to keep politics out of their Games.

 

And now, an athlete can't even wear a {censored}ing Tibetan armband without getting thrown out of the Games?

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Athletes who take Tibet stand 'face Olympic cut'

 

Athletes who display Tibetan flags at Olympic venues

[rasputin1963]

If the Olympics DO go ahead, which they likely will, and without Western boycotts, you just KNOW there is going to be some kind of shocking outburst or visible brouhaha... televised, of course.

[Anderton]

Deja vu...from http://german.about.com/library/blgermyth10.htm :

 

"The fact that there were American athletes competing in the 1936 Olympics at all is still considered by many to be a blotch on the history of the U.S. Olympic Committee. Germany's open discrimination against Jews and other 'non-Aryans' was already public knowledge when many Americans opposed U.S. participation in the 'Nazi Olympics.' Opponents to U.S. participation included the American ambassadors to Germany and Austria. But those who warned that Hitler and the Nazis would use the 1936 Olympic Games in Berlin for propaganda purposes lost the battle to have the U.S. boycott the Berlin Olympiade.

 

"Which brings us to another Olympic myth. It is often stated that Jesse Owens' four gold medals humiliated Hitler by proving to the world that Nazi claims of Aryan superiority were a lie. But Hitler and the Nazis were far from unhappy with the Olympic results. Not only did Germany win far more medals than any other country at the 1936 Olympics, but the Nazis had pulled off the huge public relations coup that Olympic opponents had predicted, casting Germany and the Nazis, falsely, in a positive light. In the long run, Owens' victories turned out to be only a minor embarrassment for Nazi Germany.

 

"But Jesse Owens' reception by the German public and the spectators in the Olympic stadium was warm. There were German cheers of 'Yesseh Oh-vens' or just 'Oh-vens' from the crowd. Owens was a true celebrity in Berlin, mobbed by autograph seekers to the point that he complained about all the attention. He later claimed that his reception in Berlin was greater than any other he had ever experienced, and he was quite popular even before the Olympics.

 

The Snub Myth

 

"Hitler did shun a black American athlete at the 1936 Games, but it wasn't Jesse Owens. On the first day of the Olympics, just before Cornelius Johnson, an African American althlete who won the first gold medal for the U.S. that day, was to receive his award, Hitler left the stadium early. (The Nazis later claimed it was a previously scheduled departure.) Prior to his departure, Hitler had received a number of winners, but Olympic officials informed the German leader that in the future he must receive all of the winners or none at all. After the first day, he opted to acknowledge none. Jesse Owens had his victories on the second day, when Hitler was no longer in attendance. Would Hitler have snubbed Owens if he had been in the stadium on day two? Perhaps. But since he wasn't there, he didn't.

 

"Ironically, the real snub of Owens came from his own president. Even after ticker-tape parades for Owens in New York City and Cleveland, President Franklin D. Roosevelt never publicly acknowledged Owens' achievements (gold in the 100 meter, 200 meter, 400 meter relay, and long jump). Owens was never invited to the White House and never even received a letter of congratulations from the president. Almost two decades passed before another American president, Dwight D. Eisenhower, honored Owens by naming him 'Ambassador of Sports'

[Anderton]

The real problem I have is that I see no solution. The Chinese are showing they don't care about public opinion. I have seen no olive branches extended by Beijing toward Tibet, nor any attempt to deal with the opinions forming against them...at least most countries would lie to get their way ("Yes, we're doing something about it, don't worry your pretty little head about it").

 

Although I truly believe that all politics should be kept out of the Olympics, it's too late for that. Politics have been introduced and they are not going to go away. The only possible solution (and even this would suck) is for all athletes not to show up, so there can't be any games. But is that fair to the people who have trained for years, in good faith, hoping to compete and not knowing that someday in the future, China would be chosen as the host?

 

But we don't even have to look at China...look at all the corruption around the Salt Lake City Olympics. Wasn't one of Mitt Romney's big deals when he was running for president was how he cleaned up the Olympics?

 

This is only going to get worse, not better. China will still stonewall the whole thing. The athletes will get caught in the middle. Someone will protest in China and cause an uproar. The Western provinces in China are close to the boiling point. Some countries will boycott, some won't, and all records will have an asterisk.

 

The world shouldn't really be trusted to humans I know several cats who could do a better job.

[Phil O'Keefe]

I would have thought that China would see how badly they're losing face over all of this world-wide and do something to change things, but that was apparently unrealistic on my part.

 

The flag / armband thing - even in your own room thing is just stupid IMO.

 

The other night, I heard Dennis Miller on TV suggesting that all the athletes from around the would should show up to the opening ceremony wearing red monk's robes. Now THAT would rule!

[John Sayers]

well, our PM spoke out directly to the Chinese leadership. He mentioned human rights abuse in Tibet in his public meetings and again in his private talks with the Chinese leadership. He does have the advantage of speaking Mandarin. k.d.lang is currently touring, and as a Buddhist she spoke out praising our PM for his forthright comments etc, and muttered something about genocide.

 

Our PM said after his meeting that the leadership of China see no problem in Tibet and deny any human rights abuse.

 

Perhaps we should worry about the 4 million killed in the Congo in the past decade - that looks more like genocide to me and something worth disrupting the games for.

[Phil O'Keefe]

The world shouldn't really be trusted to humans I know several cats who could do a better job.

 

Paging Duddits, Duddits to the red phone please....

[Philter]

I feel terrible for the athletes because I understand what a huge deal this is for them. But with that said, they need to drop out.

[deanmass]

 

Perhaps we should worry about the 4 million killed in the Congo in the past decade - that looks more like genocide to me and something worth disrupting the games for.

 

 

Perhaps we should worry about ALL human rights abuses that we are aware of?

 

Africa is another situation that is terrible, but Africa is not putting on a pretty face and hosting an international event right now.

 

Tibet is in the spotlight now because of it's geographical location and interaction with the host of the Olympics.

[Jeff da Weasel]

 

Perhaps we should worry about the 4 million killed in the Congo in the past decade - that looks more like genocide to me and something worth disrupting the games for.

 

 

It is... if the games were being held in the Congo. As it is, they're being held in China. As I'm sure you recall, in 1980, 62 countries boycotted the Moscow Olympics because of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. It's sad that the world is so much more cavalier about the abuses happening in Tibet.

 

That having been said, since the games are about the efforts of the athletes, it's too bad that this one will be remembered for the controversy rather than the athleticism.

[UstadKhanAli]

Dean and Jeff make good points.

 

I did want to point out, however, that the Save Darfur and Free Burma human rights advocates made a very strong showing in San Francisco.

 

I went up to SF with four vans of Tibetans on Tuesday and Wednesday to photograph the events and lend my support, and many of us spoke with the Darfur and Burma people as well as general human rights activists and, believe it or not, Chinese people who came in on (many!!) charter buses with the Chinese Consulate...and although of course some of the conversations devolved into arguments and taunting, there were a lot of positive exchanges as well.

[Anderton]

 

...and, believe it or not, Chinese people who came in on (many!!) charter buses with the Chinese Consulate...and although of course some of the conversations devolved into arguments and taunting, there were a lot of positive exchanges as well.

 

 

A lot of Chinese people recognize that the treatment of Tibet will ultimately do the country far more harm than good, and they don't want that.

[coyote-1]

The torch is being met with large protests everywhere. In SF, they had to divert it to a clandestine route....

 

It gives me hope for humankind.

[UstadKhanAli]

 

A lot of Chinese people recognize that the treatment of Tibet will ultimately do the country far more harm than good, and they don't want that.

 

 

Two of the red flag-waving Chinese people we spoke to were initially arguing with a Tibetan guy. Turns out that despite this, they were not fond of the Chinese government and had protested at Tiananmen Square. Although they would not concede that Tibet was not part of China, we came to an understanding about the poor treatment and killing of Tibetans at the hands of the Chinese. They believed that this was happening, but hadn't heard much news about it. They then asked, "Why doesn't the Dalai Lama try to talk with the Chinese government?" I said, "He has been asking for this for over fifty years!!" "He has?" "Yes. The question should be: why won't the Chinese government meet with him?" They said that they had never heard this before, and then said, "Maybe they are too different. I think they will never come to an understanding and that they will never meet. Maybe the Chinese government is waiting for him to die so they can talk with someone else." I mentioned that the Chinese government may encounter a lot more violence after the Dalai Lama passes away because he has always advocated non-violence.

 

There was a lot of Chinese people getting in our faces, taunting us and grinning and banging gongs inches from our face or covering up our cameras with their giant red flags, although the gong/covering up thing never happened to me personally.

 

Then there were some Chinese-Americans who were holding signs that said that they were calling for China to stop the killing in Tibet.

 

So although the majority of Chiinese people were grinning and waving red flags and chanting "LIAR! LIAR!!" or "CHINA IS BEST SUPER POWER" or "CHINA IS GREAT!!!", not every Chinese person was, so you definitely could not paint them with one brush.

 

The stunning thing was how many Chinese people there were. Even knowing that San Francisco's Chinese population is approximately 20% of the city, it was shocking to see how many Chinese people there were. And every single one seemed to be waving China's flag. There were chartered bus after bus of Chinese people, many chartered by the Chinese consulate, and many coming from all over, not just San Francisco. Wow. Serious mobilization of people going on here.

[Phil O'Keefe]

"Maybe they are too different. I think they will never come to an understanding and that they will never meet. Maybe the Chinese government is waiting for him to die so they can talk with someone else."

 

Yeah, someone of their choosing - since they outlawed reincarnation without their permission last year...

 

I'm not Hindu, but I respect Gandhi. I'm not black, but I respect Martin Luther King Jr. I'm not Buddhist, but I respect the Dalai Lama - all for the same reason: Sticking up for the rights of the oppressed and insisting that non-violence is the way to go about it.

[UstadKhanAli]

Non-violence figures a lot into what we were thinking about during our two-day trip to San Francisco for the Olympic Torch Relay. And I think it was on the minds of the pro-China supporters too. For all the clashes and arguments, there weren't any real moments of violence, and you could see people on both sides urging restraint.

 

Photos of the Tibetan protests in San Francisco here

 

Photos, opinions, text, videos, and an essay by Christal Smith, Senior Producer of The Tibet Connection, who accompanied us up in the van and for the two days.

 

[amplayer]

I read all the insightful comments in this thread and I mostly agree.

However, the Olympics are about Athletics, not politics. Therefore, I don't see it as politics to allow games in China. The Chinese have athletes and have been participating in the games for a long time, so it's only fair to allow them to host.

 

The real problem here in the USA and much of the rest of the world as well is that we are supporting everything China does with our money. We refuse to buy higher priced products from countries that don't have the human rights issues that China does.

Therefore, we are all hypocrites if we freak out about China hosting games and use it to try to leverage them in their issues with Tibet and human rights while we simultaneously have joy in our own low price and low interest rate economy that wouldn't exist without China's slave labor.

 

Let the athletes be athletes and leave the politics to others!

[UstadKhanAli]

But the very action of the IOC awarding a country the Olympic Games on the basis of good merit and a strong government is a political statement.

 

You can't make that decision, and then not expect people to criticize it if you have awarded it to one of the most repressive dictatorships in the world.

 

You can't run a torch through an occupied country on military lockdown - where they've barely hosed off the blood from the streets - and expect that there's not going to be criticism from that. You're running the torch - a beacon of the world coming together in peace - through a place where dozens of unarmed monks were just gunned down?

 

You can't make these political decisions and not expect political criticism. You can't have it both ways.

 

If the IOC makes a political statement by awarding a repressive dictatorship with the Olympic Games, we're all allowed to criticize that decision, pure and simple. That's the beauty of living in a democratic country....it's a shame that the dissenting voices in China can't be heard - they may be shot or imprisoned for doing so.

[John Sayers]

 

You can't make these political decisions and not expect political criticism. You can't have it both ways.

 

 

Ken - no one is objecting to political criticism and the right to protest but attacking the runners, and totally disrupting the event is not protest, it's violence.

[deanmass]

Euphemisms...

 

Attack?

 

Violence?

 

Where is this sliding scale?

 

Running out and grabbing a torch is attacking and violence, but beating the crap out of people, killing them, shooting them, displacing them...what term applies there?

 

I just do not see the parity here.

 

Compartmentalizing athletics and politics IS a politician-style convenient excuse, myopic method of ruling out the larger picture.

 

We do continue to support China by buying their goods, but that tide is turning as well. I very much doubt that the Chinese people support the actions of the government for any other reason than if it gets ugly, they can be taken away and shot. Gun in face=Support for China

 

No one wants any of the athletes hurt over this, and I don't want them harassed (which is a more accurate word than attacked). I just want the Chinese government to leave this tiny, barren, weak country alone and let them heal, and if it takes a torch getting doused to do it, so be it.

 

And lest anyone jump in with comparisons to the US in Bagdad, I want them to be out of there as well.

 

Maybe I am just naive, but I think globally we could be doing so much better for everyone than we are now, it is our duty to pressure it in that direction in any way we can while trying to live our lives.

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

Tibetan Monk shortly before a Chinese triathlon athlete handing over the torch:

 

[UstadKhanAli]

 

Ken - no one is objecting to political criticism and the right to protest but attacking the runners, and totally disrupting the event is not protest, it's violence.

 

 

Why are you switching the subject?

 

I never advocated violence. I don't condone attacking the runners. I went to SF waving a sign and marching and taking photos, nothing more. That's not only peaceful, it's democratic and appropriate. Let's stay on subject here.

 

All I am saying is that since the IOC has made strong political statements, they can't fall back and say, "Oh, let's keep politics out of the Olympics". You can't have it both ways.

[John Sayers]

 

Not that I had much respect for the IOC previously, but these people are complete f*ckheads. The minute the IOC awarded one of the most brutal dictatorships in the world the Olympics on the basis of good merit, they made a political statement.

 

 

China has competed in the games your years now - it has a right to apply to host the games. The IOC judged all the applicants and decided China was capable of supplying the necessary infrastructure to host the games.

 

 

The minute the IOC decided to run the torch through Tibet while the China military is rounding up monks and shooting them while keeping all international press out of Tibet, they made a political statement.

 

 

The IOC wanted to take the flame to Mt Everest, and you have to go through Tibet to get there. It was the monks making the political statement by rampaging through the streets ransacking businesses and killing Chinese.

 

 

Like it or not, the IOC continually makes political statements while saying that they want to keep politics out of their Games. And now, an athlete can't even wear a {censored}ing Tibetan armband without getting thrown out of the Games?

 

 

So you are saying "they want to keep politics out of their Games" but should make an exception in the case of Tibet.

[sventvkg]

F@#$ CHINA AND F!@# THE OLYMPICS.......

 

BOYCOT THEM!!!

[UstadKhanAli]

 

So you are saying "they want to keep politics out of their Games" but should make an exception in the case of Tibet.

 

 

No, I'm not saying that. You'll have to read what I am saying again. That's the beauty of print.