PC Motherboard Chipsets

[MikeRivers]

P35, X38, G33, X48, P31 and a few more. What should they mean to me?

 

If you bothered to read the thread that Lee started a few weeks back when she was looking to put together a new computer, I tried to learn something from that discussion (to do the same thing myself) and ultimately ended up buying an off-the-shelf Dell because it was ready to go, the price was right, and it seemed like it had all the power I needed for the audio applications that I wanted to run.

 

Well, it worked out just fine for audio, but after trying several possible adapters and converters, I never resolved sharing the keyboard and mouse with my Mackie HDR24/96 via a KVM switch - the Mackie (and switch that I have) use PS/2 ports and the Dell had none, just USB for the mouse and keyboard. Nor did it hava a parallel port, and two tries (a PCI-e paralIel card and a USB-parallel adapter) didn't get my Sequoia dongle working.

 

I was about to return the computer and chalk the $60 restocking fee up to a lesson in what you think should work but doesn't when my neighbor, who was looking for a new computer, offered to buy it from me.

 

So now that the Dell is out of the way, I'm back to doing what I should have done in the first place, putting a computer together from parts, starting with choosing a motherboard. The favored brands seem to change week to week. The only local shop that sells PC components, Micro Center, is constantly turning over stock so that no sooner do I find something that looks promising than they no longer have it. So I'm probably going to have to bite the bullet and do a mail order, which will be inconvenient if I have to return parts.

 

So what does it all mean? Does the chipset matter? I gather that some chipsets include a graphics interface and others don't, meaning that I'll have to choose a graphics card as well - and there no longer seem to be any cheap and simple grapics cards.

 

What's a poor boy to do? In the meantime I've put the Lynx card back in the old Pentium II chassis and got that up and running again with Win98SE. Feels like a comfortable old pair of shoes, but I just can't use new hardware or software with it.

 

As a side note, I know there are dozens of mail order suppliers out there. Does anyone have experience with MWave? They caught my eye because you can order a motherboard, memory, and processor from them and for an extra $10, they'll plug in all the pieces and test it.

 

If I'm there at the right time, I can get a couple of Sonata models locally at Micro Center, but that should be pretty trouble-free other than that I'll have to take apart my computer desk and modify it since those cases are all about 1/2" too wide to fit in the tower compartment of my 12 year old computer desk.

 

Argh! Where's my Ampex MM1100 when I need it?

[ViLo]

When I was building my DAW I checked the sweetwater.com computer components and I bought what they use.

http://www.sweetwater.com/creation_station/towerle.php

SWEETWATER"S COMPUTER

Creation Station Tower LE Specs:

Motherboard: Asus w/P35 Chipset

CPU: Pentium Dual Core 2.0GHz/800MHz FSB

Hard Drive(s): Glyph Seagate 160GB SATA

RAM: 2GB DDR2/800

Optical Drive: DVD+/-RW with Lightscribe

Video Card: GeForce 8400GS 1 DVI-I / 1 VGA

Ports: 9 x USB 2.0, 2 FireWire

PCI Slots: 2 PCI-e x 16; 1 PCI-e x 1; 2 PCI 2.2

Card Reader: Multimedia card reader

[MikeRivers]

I was actually thinking of a setup like that, but the Asus boards that I've found have only one PS/2 port, for the keyboard. It seems like the keyboard is the critical item for the switch to work, but I don't want to fool with that any more. Gotta have PS/2 ports for the keyboard and mouse. Here's my starter shopping list:

 

Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3L motherboard

E6750 2.66 G CPU (might back off on this a bit)

2 GB RAM DDR2/800

Zalman CNPS7700CU fan

Hitachi 250 GB 7200 RPM SATA hard drive

LiteOn cheapo LightScribe DVD drive

ATI Radeon HD3450 PCI-e graphics card

Antec Sonata Designer 500 case with 500w power supply

no software (I have a fresh XP copy on the shelf)

 

$613 plus $45 shipping

 

But I'd still rather buy locally, and I'd still like to know what all those chipset options mean to me and what might bite me in the end.

[AudioMaverick]

For KVMs try this...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812101117&Tpk=Bytecc%2bBT-2000

Bytecc BT-2000 USB to PS2 adapter. $6.50 +S&H

 

Not all USB to PS2 adapters are the same! I know this one works with Dell Optiplex 755s, GX620s, GX260s... and PowerEdge Server 830s, 1800s & 2900s. I us both IO-Gear (lime green 2 & 4-port) and Belkin 4-port rack mount units. with them I tried the Syba SY-USB-PS2 model has issues with the Dell keyboard port not working.

 

As for the chipsets, that is a difficult one to answer without having physical experience with them. I have read the Intel data sheets. But, you know how specs are... Use them as resumes and call the hardware in for an interview.

[MikeRivers]

 

For KVMs try this... Bytecc BT-2000 USB to PS2 adapter. $6.50 +S&H

 

That problem is outa here and I'm not going to get into it again, not when I can buy what I know works. Not all PS2 adapters are the same, and neither are all KVMs. What worked with for some won't necessarily work for all.

 

As for the chipsets, that is a difficult one to answer without having physical experience with them. I have read the Intel data sheets. But, you know how specs are... Use them as resumes and call the hardware in for an interview.

 

So should I care what chipset I get? That's what I really want to know.

[D Charles]

Hey Mike, it's been awhile, but I bought my music computer parts from mwave and got the mobo, cpu, ram combo tested for peace of mind. I went intel mobo & cpu with crucial ram and it's still rock solid and going strong.

[MikeRivers]

 

Hey Mike, it's been awhile, but I bought my music computer parts from mwave and got the mobo, cpu, ram combo tested for peace of mind. I went intel mobo & cpu with crucial ram and it's still rock solid and going strong.

 

Thanks. I haven't heard anything bad about MWave, but then it's a big universe and a small world. The motherboard that I have in the computer that I want to replace is an Intel and it's been fine for a dozen or so years.

[Anderton]

Just remember that a motherboard's useful life before it gets replaced by something newer and more wonderful (right) is about 8 months. Also, you have to flash the bios when there's an available update...and yes, this can affect audio, as documented in my UX8 pro review.

[D Charles]

I've had good luck with mwave, compgeeks and newegg, but stay the heck away from tigerdirect! 8-0

[joel Oporto]

So is it my understanding that what you need are 2 PS/2 ports, a parralel port and a couple of PCI slots?

 

The way I see it mike, you'll be limited to to the P35 chipsets. The newer chipsets and including most of the p35 mobos will only have 1 PS/2 slot. Those that have 2 are usually the older mobos and chipset and very few still have parallel ports (except maybe the server boards).

 

I'm afraid your getting "obsoleted"

 

I think you would be better off getting proper adaptors/converters from mackie and Sequoia themselves for the newer mobos if that's available.

[MikeRivers]

Just remember that a motherboard's useful life before it gets replaced by something newer and more wonderful (right) is about 8 months. Also, you have to flash the bios when there's an available update...and yes, this can affect audio, as documented in my UX8 pro review.

Tell that to the motherboard that's been in my studio computer for more than 10 years. The only reason that I want to upgrade now is that I'm curious about some of the new stuff that's coming out now, but I don't really have a compelling need to actually use it. I was happy when Fast Edit was upgraded to handle 24-bit files. But our needs are different.

 

I actually did flash my BIOS with two updates. One was when I got the Mackie recorder and couldn't make FTP work on the computer. There was an update that took care of that. The other was when I replaced the disk drive and it was cheaper to buy a 30 GB drive than one smaller than 8 GB, and that required a BIOS update. Oh, and I upgraded the memory from 64 to 128 MB when I was having trouble with large Word files with graphics.

 

But I suppose that my next computer will probably get upgraded more often than the last one simply because I intend to start using it for more modern applications. Still, I'm pretty conservative about those things. I'll be happy having a USB2 and Firewire interface.

 

It was an upgrade spiral that drove me to ditching the perfectly adequate (on its own) Dell and start looking for a custom computer. Because the Dell had no parallel port or PS/2 ports, I couldn't directly use my existing KVM switch or Sequoia parallel port dongle.

[alfonso]

Newer mobos with both PCIexpress and PCI and both SATA and PATA have different ways to assign resources. For example, some of them will put the PATA and the Lan controllers in the PCI bus, others won't, this might more or less affect the PCI cards, if you have any but could be the best choice if you have a PCIexpress audio interface....there are several factors like this which change within a single chipset implementation from one mobo to the other.

[MikeRivers]

 

Newer mobos with both PCIexpress and PCI and both SATA and PATA have different ways to assign resources. For example, some of them will put the PATA and the Lan controllers in the PCI bus, others won't, this might more or less affect the PCI cards, if you have any but could be the best choice if you have a PCIexpress audio interface.

 

I have a Lynx L22 audio card and I intend to put it in a PCI slot. Are you suggesting that it might not work well? It's too good a card to not use, particularly compared to the Firewire audio interfaces that I have.

[ViLo]

 

So should I care what chipset I get? That's what I really want to know.

 

 

From SW's website:

"The most reliable motherboards - an essential component

 

When it came to selecting motherboards for the ultimate audio production computers, we chose ASUS based on our own real-world experience with their quality and reliability. At various times in most computers' lives, cards will be removed and installed, which could cause cracks and broken connections in lesser motherboards. Also, our rack models will often be taken on the road. The motherboard needs to be able to stand up to stresses applied to the case. ASUS motherboards are designed to accommodate Intel chipsets, which provide the best audio performance and application compatibility.

[ViLo]

The preference for Intel chipsets

 

chipsetThe chipset (which joins things together electronically) is distinct from the processor or CPU (which carries out the instructions of computer programs). The chipset is part of the motherboard. The motherboard is the large, main circuit board inside the computer.

 

motherboardThe chipsets used in many PC computers (even if they have Intel processors) are from suppliers such as VIA and SIS. While these are certainly adequate for officey stuff, they have tended not to be quite up to meeting the demands of serious music-making hardware. Like some of the manufacturers of this specialist hardware, we strongly recommend the use of motherboards with Intel chipsets (and consequently Intel processors). Intel are closely involved in the development of important interconnection standards like PCI and USB. As a result, their implementations tend to be regarded as definitive

[MikeRivers]

 

From SW's website: "The most reliable motherboards - an essential component When it came to selecting motherboards for the ultimate audio production computers, we chose ASUS

 

I probably would, too, if they had a PS/2 port for the mouse as well as the keyboard. But compatibility with existing equipment is more important to me than a history of reliability. I've also learned not to trust history when it comes to computer components. It's a good starting point, but other things need to be considered.

[ViLo]

It's a good starting point, but other things need to be considered.

 

Agreed...But you were asking about the importance of Chipsets, so there you are, yes they are important;)

 

Good luck with your search of your dream machine or at least one that will work 4 U.

[alfonso]

 

I have a Lynx L22 audio card and I intend to put it in a PCI slot. Are you suggesting that it might not work well? It's too good a card to not use, particularly compared to the Firewire audio interfaces that I have.

 

 

I think it will work well...it's a great card for what i know, but for example if you buy a MOBO with only one PCI slot it's better to check before if it doesn't share resources with LAN or some other potentially disturbing onboard device.

It might be a source of instability, like it has always been. But before you had all the mobos with 5 PCI slots and a couple were hassle free for sure, now they are usually less to accomodate the PCI express slots ....I think that checking the forums related to your audiocard might help you to make the best choice when shopping for a mobo.

[ViLo]

 

I think it will work well...it's a great card for what i know, but for example if you buy a MOBO with only one PCI slot it's better to check before if it doesn't share resources with LAN or some other potentially disturbing onboard device. It might be a source of instability, like it has always been. But before you had all the mobos with 5 PCI slots and a couple were hassle free for sure, now they are usually less to accomodate the PCI express slots ....I think that checking the forums related to your audiocard might help you to make the best choice when shopping for a mobo.

 

 

 

Word:thu:

[Lee Flier]

I'd go with an nVidia video card as opposed to ATI - seems to have less compatibility problems. Otherwise, looks like you're on the right track. I'd probably go with a Seagate drive too, they're very quiet and most come with a 5 year warranty - hard to argue with that. The chipset does matter, and mobos with Intel or nVidia chipsets seem to be the ones that work best for audio. I continue to be really happy with my new machine, including for audio, so I'll continue to say that the components I got are a safe bet.

 

Newegg is really great to order from, by the way, and they make it real fast and easy if you have to return anything. Their orders always get here super fast, too.

[ViLo]

Newegg is really great to order from, by the way, and they make it real fast and easy if you have to return anything. Their orders always get here super fast, too.

 

[joel Oporto]

I hate to give more fuel to the fire mike, but here it is.

Me and a couple of audio professional friends of mine(4 of us) decided to upgrade to a new quad core Q6600 in the past few months. We have 2 different Asus boards and 2 Abit P35 pro boards. Among those, the Abit boards where easily the fastest, my friend is chugging along at 3.6ghz on air while both asus boards get unstable at anything more than 3.2ghz.

But here's the glitch. Two of the four friends are brothers and one of the brothers carefully chose his asus board and ordered from newegg while the rest of us both ours locally. They each had a MOTU 424 PCI card but of different models. For some reason the Abit motherboard would not recognize the older 424 card but would recognize the newer one. These were both P35 chipsets, so the brothers had to swap the motherboards. Now over the years I've encountered chipset problems with Motu hardware. Between the four of us, we've had mobos from gigabyte, asus, epox, abit, and mostly chipset problems from VIA and never with intel or Nvidia nforce. This is a first with an intel chipset, but seemed more of a mobo implementation problem than a chipset problem.

We are different individuals and have different opportunities available to us.

If I was in your place I certainly would experiment to ensure the continuity of my workable system even if I'm not ready to upgrade just yet. But my being one of the techie guys people run to to troubleshoot their systems affords me to try out their systems for compatibilities with certain hardware.(In our case its mostly MOTU, M-audio, apogee and digidesign stuff)

While your system is still working well, it certainly is well worth the effort to experiment on finding the upgrades that will work with your system like finding adaptors and converters that will work.

I did a search for your specific needs and I limited it to Asus motherboards for what I believe to be better chances of compatibility, and here's what I got:

 

P35 chipsets: 23 boards

Asus P5K - Pro

Asus P5K EPU

These are the only two with both keyboard and mouse PS/2 slots

none have parallel ports

Nforce chipsets - 11 boards

Asus P5N-D nforce 750i

Asus P5N-E nforce 650i

both have mouse and Keyboard PS/2 slots plus com(paralel) and LTPI ports

Asus Striker Extreme nforce 680i

both PS/2 ports but no parallel ports

Intel Q35 chipsets - 2 boards

Asus P5E- VM DO Intel Q35

Asus P5E- VM SE Intel Q35

both are complete with 2 PS/2 ports, com and LTPI

 

So you will find

P5N - D Nforce 750i

P5N - E Nforce 680i,

P5E - VM SE Intel Q35

P5E - VM DO Intel Q35

All 4 boards will fit the bill.

However they all have issues in them in.

The Q35 boards are designed for quad processors and budget server types, (hence the Com and LTPI ports) but are also 45nm processor(latest Intel) compatible.

So there you go.

The Q35 mobos are about $120 off newegg and I think it would be well worth to try out given your circumstance for upgrade path where mobo companies are phasing out PS/2 and com/LTPI ports