As I'm getting older, I'm moving more and more towards the left...

[UstadKhanAli]

Sometimes I wonder if I do everything backwards.

 

When I was young, I was of course influenced by my parents' political views, as are most young people. I even remember discussing some things with my Dad when I was around 16, and he was saying that as people age, they became more concerned with finances and their family and the future, and become more conservative.

 

And most of the time, I've considered myself fairly middle of the road and kind of still do. I've tried to consider each candidate or issue on its own merit. I've never been a member of any political party. I feel that none of them speaks for me in any genuine way. I've voted for Republicans, Democrats, and Green party candidates based on their merit and what I felt they could do for the public as a whole.

 

But I've taken a few of those "which candidate are you most aligned with politically?" sort of polls in the last year, and I've been surprised that I seem to have moved farther to the left in general, although I'm still sort of for a lot of different things that some might say are more conservative.

 

I don't want this to be a political thread so much as it is an observation in yourself or others slowly changing their viewpoints and such. Has anyone else slowly shifted to the left over time? Or to the right? Or, uh, elsewhere?

[Mr. Botch]

I've moved to the left as I've gotten older, too. Like you, it was a lot my folks' influence, then being full-time military for many years; I was a lifetime member of the Republican Party until about two years after I moved to Utah; the corruption (in Utah, although it seems to be more national now) drove me to become an Independent.

Have to admit, Craig's forum had a big influence on me too; musicians are generally more liberal, and this place was really the first time I've gotten immersed in so many diverse conversations with the "left" side.

I'm still an arch-conservative with some issues (gun control, illegal immigration, fiscal responsibility) but have changed over the years in other issues (women's rights, gay marriage, education).

I just wish there were more people who would let themselves look at both sides, rather than sticking with the "team" agenda on everything.

Hope this thread stays mellow, it could be very interesting!

[Johnny-Boy]

I've been hanging on the right my entire life. I'll probably die on my right side.

 

I don't think the "left" is going to be able to help us baby boomers anyway. I've been seeing bumper stickers with "Save Social Security, Kill A Baby Boomer".

 

If I can't afford my Imitrex when I retire, I'll probably slit my throat.

 

John:wave:

[UstadKhanAli]

Mr. Botch, because I haven't thought about some issues as being conservative or liberal, I feel like I'm not sure which "side" they'd be on, such as "fiscal responsibility", which I'm absolutely for!!! For instance, you and some of my friends think of "fiscal responsibility" as a conservative issue, which I'm sure it is...but I've always simply thought of that as a common-sense issue!!!!

 

Many of my friends, including ones that were relatively liberal, seem to have gotten a little more conservative as time has gone on. And some of them have stayed the same. But I'm the only one in my family who has drifted more towards the left as time has gone on, although my brother seems pretty much "in the middle".

[UstadKhanAli]

I don't think the "left" is going to be able to help us baby boomers anyway. I've been seeing bumper stickers with "Save Social Security, Kill A Baby Boomer".

 

Ouch!!!!

 

I don't know if that is so much a political ideology thing as a stupid smart-ass thing!!!

[Jeff da Weasel]

Here's an interesting thought. You and I, Ken, are pretty close to the same age. One thing that people often complained about in regard to our generation was that we seemed so much more apathetic politically than several generations previously.

 

Maybe it's an age thing that as we find ourselves more concerned with national affairs, we're not following the former trends of people who immersed themselves earlier in life.

[Johnny-Boy]

Ouch!!!! I don't know if that is so much a political ideology thing as a stupid smart-ass thing!!!

 

I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes a reality. 61 million baby boomers sucking the life blood out of an already troubled economy could be life threatening.

 

Best, John:rolleyes:

[Lee Knight]

Good topic Ken.

 

I generally don't like talking politics because I'm (like you to a certain degree, I'm finding out) not the expected totally left musician. But I am a musician/artist after all. A lot of left thinking goes on in my noggin.

 

At an early age I was attracted to and befriended left thinking companions. But I've always had a different outlook from my friends. To a degree. My Dad is a retired high ranking Army officer. In the 70's, the highest ranking in San Diego County. A very bright and genuinely good man. I've always respected his opinion. He's an exception to the stereotype.

 

So here we have this long haired, rebellious, musician teen. Not so quick to buy into the shallow logic of his stoned, but at the same time very intelligent, lefty friends. So I got tired of explaining my views and never being heard.

 

But here I am, moving left. And I don't like a lot of reactionary, smug leftist ideology. At the same time I despise the militant right persona.

 

I pay close attention to the world and our country's doings. And I'm more confused than ever. But to the left I am leaning. I'm a realist.

 

As Ken pointed out elsewhere, sometimes, unfortunately, war is inevitable. Not idealistically... where my mind is at a lot, but realistically.

 

And now I'm feeling the pull towards idealism lately. The clearer I see, the more confused I get.

[Dean Roddey]

I think that many people get a bit more liberal as they age, just a side effect of softening up a bit, men particularly. I think it's often related to raising children, and partly just getting more perspective on the world and realizing it's not all about you and that there's more than one way to look at the world that are all equally legitimate. And getting a grip on your own imminent mortality I think has a tendancy to sometimes make people less judgemental.

[Anderton]

There is no left and no right, only issues that require careful consideration, free of ideology.

[blue2blue]

 

 

 

 

I think I got my core principles and a sense of pragmatic moderation from my parents more than their specific politics.

 

When I was in jr high, I had OCD badly and the no-shades-of-gray views of the far right really appealed to me. I became involved for a time with the Young Americans for Freedom. My dad, a lifelong Republican, worked hard to get me to stop going to their meetings, showing me in the literature I was bringing home strains of antisemitism and anti-Catholicism... I didn't really buy it at the time -- I wasn't exactly a sophisticate and the YAF guys had this super clean cut cool to them, I thought at the time, so unlike other teens, who I looked down on contemptuously.

 

In time I worked my way out of the worst of the OCD and learned enough to look askance at the simplistic, exclusionary politics of the YAF -- who produced politicians like Dana Rohrabacher (sadly my congressman), Chris Cox, Tom Tancredo, Pat Nolan, and a number of other leading lights of the current right.

 

In the mid-late 60s it was hard to figure out which way to go. LBJ dominated the Demos; Nixon the GOP. A lot of folks swung hard left; some went to a new anti-draft, anti-Vietnam war, anti-government libertarianism. I explored both, talking and hanging out with a lot of different people.

 

As I became more involved with the anti-war movement I soon tired of the far left, who were a relatively small part of the movement, but who increasingly seemed to me to be poseurs and phonies... all bluster and hype and no real stomach for the real work of changing things. It seemed increasingly clear to me that they were just in the way when it came to ending the war and protecting the environment. Part of the problem, as it were.

 

And as I explored the very appealing (to me) ideology of libertarianism and talked to a lot of libertarians of various stripes I realized a couple of things: some of them, more than I was comfortable with, were old-fashioned far right extremists in disguise, with all the social tics of the old right: antisemitism, anti-Catholocism, subtle racism disguised as so-called hard headed realism. And many of the rest were so extreme in their views as to be as impractical -- if idealisitic -- as the most radical communists -- whose zeal and commitment to ideology over reality reminded me of that of the libertarians and seemed to be the opposite side of the same cloth.

 

 

Since then, it's seemed increasingly to me that the answer is usually found someplace in the middle, that's where the real people who do the real work of changing things are. That's where the practical people are, the people who understand and pursue moderation and tolerance, who are willing to work in a number of different modalities and who can see things from different perspectives without being seduced by simplistic, absolutist solutions.

[UstadKhanAli]

There is no left and no right, only issues that require careful consideration, free of ideology.

 

That's how I tend to look at things. That's how I hope I look at things.

 

But I also like to reflect on what sides my opinions seem to line up with, mostly for curiosity's sake. And also, I like to examine people's reactions. And of course, most people's reactions are to automatically think that if I say something that seems conservative to them, they automatically think that I'm anti-Democrat or anti-liberal...and vice versa, of course. We've discussed how polarizing politics can be, and how some approach politics as if it were a sporting event, which strikes me as odd. After all, whatever our opinions, we're hopefully trying to vote for people who can do the most good and help the citizens of our country.

[Lee Knight]

 

There is no left and no right, only issues that require careful consideration, free of ideology.

 

 

 

amen.

[veracohr]

 

And as I explored the very appealing (to me) ideology of libertarianism and talked to a lot of libertarians of various stripes I realized a couple of things: some of them, more than I was comfortable with, were old-fashioned far right extremists in disguise, with all the social tics of the old right: antisemitism, anti-Catholocism, subtle racism disguised as so-called hard headed realism. And many of the rest were so extreme in their views as to be as impractical -- if idealisitic -- as the most radical communists -- whose zeal and commitment to ideology over reality reminded me of that of the libertarians and seemed to be the opposite side of the same cloth.

 

 

While I have strong opinions on society and politics, I am not particularly political. That is, I despise most of the political arena, and only involve myself as much as I think is necessary and effective. Most of it seems like pointless masturbation to me.

 

However, when I first looked into the Libertarian party a few years ago, I almost immediately came to similar conclusions as you. It seemed to me that their stated goals and ideologies were very in tune with me, yet their way of going about it seemed entirely wrong to me.

 

As far as the thread topic goes...

 

I'm 29. I've always been pretty much on the "left" side I guess, but I've found that as I've gotten older, I've developed a much more anarchistic attitude. An attitude that is removed from the "left-right" spectrum of usual politics, and instead says "you guys are {censored}ing whacked, I'm outta here."

 

Sometimes I have a hard time accepting that not everybody sees politics as a laugh-worthy bull{censored} show. Like people going to a play and believing that what they see is real.

 

Politics isn't real. Human interaction is real.

[Geoff Grace]

Ken, have you considered the possibility that you didn't move to the left, but instead the country moved to the right and you stayed in the same place?

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[John Sayers]

Ken , have you considered the possibility that you didn't move to the left, but instead the country moved to the right and you stayed in the same place? Best, Geoff

 

that's how an ex conservative Prime Minister, Malcolm Fraser, replied when he was accused of moving to the left, he said his party had moved to his right.

 

What annoys me are people who treat political parties like football teams - you back them come what may. I'm seeing a lot of it in this election.

[Rubber Lizard]

This is what I like most about this group of folks. Without exception (so far) every single opinion stated here has been well considered and dogma free.

 

Amazingly, the same is true even when music or recording is the subject... in how many "musician" forums would that be true?

[BlueStrat]

I read an article awhile back where the writer said (and I agree 100%) that terms like right and left and liberal and conservative are no longer useful because they have become completely changed from their original meaning. For instance, 'right' and 'left' are derived from pre-revolution France, where the loyalists to the crown sat on the right side of the parliamentary chamber and the revolutionaries sat on the left. It was rightists who were for maintaining a powerful central government and leftists who were promoting minimal government and liberty of the individual.

 

Similarly, classic liberalism is rooted in freedom of the individual while classic conservatism was rooted in preserving the collectivist monarchy state as the source of power.

 

The article goes on to say that today we have varying degrees of statists on one side and individualists on the other. Generally, statists are those considered to be on the left tend to favor a strong central government that collects revenue and redistributes it for the benefit of the populace, while individualists tend to be in favor of smaller government and more personal responsibiliy and self sufficiency.

 

Of course, most people are a mix of both, with a tendency to lean one way or another. After spending the first half of my life as a liberal who campaigned for Jimmy Carter, I find myself leaning more conservative/libertarian with a pragmatic bent.

[Dean Roddey]

I'm a Stupitarian. I believe that if everyone was more stupid, that we'd all be more relaxed and less worried about whether our leaders are doing a good job or not.

[Beck]

As I've gotten older I've moved more and more to the north... above it all. I can't fully relate to the so-called left or right... well I guess I haven't changed all that much in that regard. No one consulted me when defining those terms. I'm more tolerant and accepting overall. Labels only confuse things and frustrate relationships.

 

I owe a lot of my mellowing to a Jewish gal named Barbara who lived across the hall in my apartment building in the 80

[MikeRivers]

Funny, but as I get older I like more reverb in my mixes.

 

Is that right or left?

[Etienne Rambert]

The older I get, the more misanthropic I get.

 

Drifting left? No way Jose! I think that phase lasted about

2 months when I was 20 years old. (Nixon ran against McGovern

that year.)

 

Lately, I've become acquainted with the greatest man who ever lived,

a man to whom we all are deeply indebted.

 

[Johnny-Boy]

Funny, but as I get older I like more reverb in my mixes. Is that right or left?

 

Depends on how it all pans out.

 

John:poke:

[Jersey Jack]

I started out a pretty radical lefty, and then moved in the common manner toward the center. That is, until W. came into office. Even after Bush v Gore and especially after 9/11 I felt he was a decent guy--perhaps in a bit over his head but trying to do his best. The last seven years, however, as moved me back toward the left.

 

Even so, I've still got a foot in the center, and I could have tolerated McCain until the vice presidential choice was made and his campaign then turned nasty, blatantly pandering to people's worst instincts.

 

So although I would never have voted for W or for McCain, I initially thought each was a decent guy, and in both cases now I've been seriously disappointed. Two times I was on the verge of drifting further toward the center, only to be pushed back by what seems to me irresponsible, even despicable behavior.

 

Here's the problem: Politics is about ideology, but government is about practical matters. From the start W. made government about ideology, and the result is war, torture, isolation from our allies, environmental and economic disasters, etc. Clinton, for all his flaws, was a practical man, and the country did well when he was in office. (No flames, please, I'm not saying that Clinton produced good times, only that his administration managed them effectively.) During his presidency, however, the republicans obsessively tried to paint him as an ideological man, which he isn't. But the chief republican trait to my mind is an inability to allow government to be practical.

 

Hence the common expression: Republicans can't govern (too ideological) and Democrats can't win (not ideological enough).

 

That may be changing now. Let's hope.

 

So, I wouldn't mind being more in the center, but they won't let me!

[the stranger]

 

Ken , have you considered the possibility that you didn't move to the left, but instead the country moved to the right and you stayed in the same place? Best, Geoff

 

 

Bingo.