Members Inazone Posted October 25, 2008 Members Share Posted October 25, 2008 Over the past year, I've been contemplating a change from a simple guitar/bass-only home recording setup to some mobile that would allow me to record drums elsewhere and then "bring them home" for the rest. I've determined that I don't need to record the entire band at once, so my original thoughts of an 8+ channel FireWire mixer like an M-Audio NRV-10 or Alesis MultiMix FW have been scaled back to some of the more limited USB devices like the M-Audio Fast Track Ultra. That unit in particular has four XLR inputs with what are supposedly pretty decent preamps for a low-end interface. My intention would be to have some combination of overhead mics and triggers, with four channels being sufficient and anything beyond that icing on the cake. The same device would then be more than enough for guitar and bass tracking if needed. /Some of the other USB interfaces only have two XLRs, but have 2+ 1/4" ins that could handle the triggered drums. So regardless of the input type, I'm looking at something with a minimum of four tracks being recorded. My concern is that I'm pretty ignorant on these things. In the past, I've always used a small mixer into the left/right inputs of an Echo PCI card, or a guitar modeller run direct to the card. Performance was always fine, recording one or two guitar tracks. Is the bandwidth with USB 2.0 such that I can expect four tracks of audio to come through without taxing my system? In this case, "system" could be anything from a 1.5 GHz P4 laptop with 1.25GB of RAM and an external hard disk, to a 2.6GB or higher P4 desktop with 2GB running Windows XP, or a multi-core desktop with Vista. Printed specs don't always match up with real world performance, and my experience with USB devices is more limited to printers and modems than recording devices, so any experiences anyone can share would be great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 25, 2008 Members Share Posted October 25, 2008 This is an admittedly crappy answer. I just read in PC Photo Magazine (and let that be your first clue that this may not be an inappropriate answer since we're talking about transferring photos and not audio) that as far as external drives go, the transfer rate between FW 400 and USB 2.0 are approximately equivalent. If this is actually so and is also applicable to audio, then I've been able to record 12 tracks simultaneously on FW 400 with a hiccup, and have done so frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted October 25, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted October 25, 2008 If you keep to a sensible 44.1 kHz sample rate, there's no problem recording four channels over USB. That's getting close to the limit for USB 1.1, and USB 2.0 audio interfaces are still not all that common. I'd go with a USB2 interface if you can. Don't worry about the quality of the mic preamps - until you get to the really high grade interfaces, they're all about the same. Do give some thought to whether you'll need phantom power for your mics, now or in the future. Not all USB-powered interfaces offer phantom power, and it might be skimpy if they do. I don't have any recommendations, but I did have a phantom power problem with a TASCAM US-122 (the original model). I don't know how they're doing with that on their current models in that series, or how well M-Audio, Alesis, or Edirol do it. Is Firewire out of your budget? You might consider stretching and getting an 8-input Firewire interface. This will give you room to expand, and there are some decent low priced ones these days. My laptop computers don't have a Firewire port built in (which may be a benefit) and I've never had a problem with a Firewire audio interface through either of the two CardBus adapters, though you need to use external power that way - you can't power it from the computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TimOBrien Posted October 25, 2008 Members Share Posted October 25, 2008 I just read in PC Photo Magazine (and let that be your first clue that this may not be an inappropriate answer since we're talking about transferring photos and not audio) that as far as external drives go, the transfer rate between FW 400 and USB 2.0 are approximately equivalent. USB2 comes close in BURSTS, not CONTINUOUS transfers. FW400 is SUSTAINED. That's the big problem. Audio needs to be recorded over an extended period of time and USB bandwidth through the cpu doesn't cut it. That's why I can easily add a couple more Motu units to my 828mkII and get 60 simultaneous ins/outs. FW400 has the bandwidth to handle a couple HUNDRED continuous simultaneous audio streams..... you can't do that with USB2. (and before you counter with USB3 coming out ''soon", they've also approved FW1600 and FW3200.....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 25, 2008 Members Share Posted October 25, 2008 USB2 comes close in BURSTS, not CONTINUOUS transfers. FW400 is SUSTAINED. That's the big problem. I had a strong feeling that they weren't the "same kind" of transfer rate. Thanks! Told ya it was a crappy answer!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Lozada Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Excellent response from Tim -as usual-. Transfer rates are similar in USB 2.0 and FireWire, but they do communicate in a different approach, making USB 2.0 less optimal for multi-channel tracking, but still pretty usable on low channel counts at high sample rates. If your computer is prepared for digital audio, you will be fine with a USB 2.0 interface. I know models capable of recording up to 8 channels simultaneously. For higher channel counts than that, there is always the PCI or FireWire option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Inazone Posted October 25, 2008 Author Members Share Posted October 25, 2008 Thanks for the replies. FireWire isn't out of the question, but the dollar savings of going with a USB model means a bit more cash for PC upgrades. The hardware I have right now is certainly sufficient for the little bit of dabbling that I do currently, and even four channels doubles what I can do simultaneously with my current antiquated setup. It's quite possible that I won't be tracking drums at all for the first couple of projects I expect to be doing - a friend of mine has a Nuendo-based studio with excellent custom drums and a selection of mics and preamps if I need them - but I want the capability for demo recording. Another factor is that I am pretty far out of the loop on the software side, as I used good ol' Cakewalk Pro Audio for my guitar and bass needs for a long time while other software ended up sitting unopened in the box. I'm leaning heavily toward M-Audio in the event that I ever want to tackle Pro Tools. That being the case, I've basically narrowed my options down to the Fast Track Ultra (USB) for the most software flexibility, or an Alesis MultiMix FW if I decide to forget about Pro Tools and stick with Cakewalk/Sonar or maybe Cubase. There just doesn't seem to be much in the way of reviews on the Alesis hardware, and something more expensive like a Mackie doesn't fit within my budget by a long shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted October 25, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted October 25, 2008 Here's something to muddle your thinking a bit. You don't have a compelling need to upgrade your computer right now, and you probably won't in the near future unless you start doing some heavy duty mixing with a lot of plug-ins. If you spend a little extra on a better quality audio interface now, it will still work for you when you decide that it's time to upgrade the computer. In other words, it's a better long-term investment than a computer upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jon Gnash Posted October 25, 2008 Members Share Posted October 25, 2008 In this case "system" could be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jon Gnash Posted October 25, 2008 Members Share Posted October 25, 2008 USB2 comes close in BURSTS, not CONTINUOUS transfers. FW400 is SUSTAINED.That's the big problem. I don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cirrus Posted October 26, 2008 Members Share Posted October 26, 2008 Hi, Just thought I'd chime in with this; Using a MOTU 828 MK 2 (the usb 2 version), I frequently record 10 tracks at once at 44.1, 24 bit. Truthfully i've never dabbled in the higher sample rates, but it does show you can get away with quite a few tracks over usb 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ggm1960 Posted October 27, 2008 Members Share Posted October 27, 2008 Over the past year, I've been contemplating a change from a simple guitar/bass-only home recording setup to some mobile that would allow me to record drums elsewhere and then "bring them home" for the rest. I've determined that I don't need to record the entire band at once I realize that this is a completely different direction than what you're talking about but I recently got an Alesis DM5 Pro electronic drum kit that stays here in my home studio. Tomorrow I have a drummer coming over and we're working on a demo for our new band.The point is, he'll be playing the kit while I record the midi data and then I'll use that to trigger drum samples. I've been reading a lot about this happening lately in EQ, even in pro level studios. Although I'll be using "canned" samples while the pros are doing their own sampling, I believe it's going to be a much more workable solution for me rather than trying to record acoustic drums in someone else's space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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