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"We Are The World" - 25 Years Later

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  • #76


    The difference with autotune is that most people don't realize what it is

    And how can you care about something that you don't even know - or understand - exists?


    So his submission is that - despite thousands of articles covering this - people don't know about AutoTune. I disagree. I've already provided links to many mainstream newspaper and magazine articles that discuss AutoTune, so we're not going to beat that horse to death again.

    And again, for the umpteenth time, I do not like the sound of AutoTune. I don't use AutoTune. I don't have AutoTune. I am not defending AutoTune. Apparently when you disagree with someone who doesn't like AutoTune, you automatically become a shill for AutoTune. Sorry, that's an AutoArgument.
    Ken Lee on 500px / Ken's Photo Store / Ken Lee Photography Facebook Website / Blueberry Buddha Studios / Ajanta Palace Houseboat - Kashmir / Hotel Green View - Kashmir / Eleven Shadows website / Ken Lee Photography Blog / Akai 12-track tape transfers / MY NEW ALBUM! The Mercury Seven

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    • #77

      When people claim it sucks, that's because they can't recognize when it's being applied tastefully.


      Exactly. Because you are minimizing or eradicating artifacts.
      Ken Lee on 500px / Ken's Photo Store / Ken Lee Photography Facebook Website / Blueberry Buddha Studios / Ajanta Palace Houseboat - Kashmir / Hotel Green View - Kashmir / Eleven Shadows website / Ken Lee Photography Blog / Akai 12-track tape transfers / MY NEW ALBUM! The Mercury Seven

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      • #78

        EDIT: I don't necessarily agree that it's "fraud," but that's cuz I use it too


        I really can see Jotown's point in how its use can sometimes be fraudulent. Just because I disagree with him on a couple of his points doesn't mean I disagree with him entirely. Don't get me wrong...I am not an "extremist". I get why people use AutoTune, why certain situations would call for someone to tastefully correct a note or two, why people feel it sounds modern, and a bunch of other reasons. My position is simply this: I don't like the sound and feel it's insanely overused and tired sounding...not much different from the opinions that have been expressed by others.
        Ken Lee on 500px / Ken's Photo Store / Ken Lee Photography Facebook Website / Blueberry Buddha Studios / Ajanta Palace Houseboat - Kashmir / Hotel Green View - Kashmir / Eleven Shadows website / Ken Lee Photography Blog / Akai 12-track tape transfers / MY NEW ALBUM! The Mercury Seven

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        • #79
          As I've always said about Auto-Tune...

          When people claim it sucks, that's because they can't recognize when it's being applied tastefully.

          I've used pitch correction in a few places on my vocals...I think probably less than a dozen times...and I don't think anyone could pick those instances out because a) any notes weren't off that much in the first place, so it didn't have to shift a lot and b) it's maybe one or two notes out of a song. By the time they've flown past, your ear is attracted by something else.

          90% of the time when I use pitch correction, it's on the last note of a phrase.
          And I have no problem with using it that way. As a tool in an engineers toolkit to subtley tweak an otherwise good vocal perfomance in the way you describe it is a great thing. I have always said that in these discussions.

          As a mask (as in Jason Bieber in the "We are the world song") in which you can hear that every note in his performance is being processed it is an abomination. I know that any engineer or sound professional worth their salt understands what I am saying and hears it imediately.

          Now Craig; with all due respect. It is clear your comment is directed at me. I definitely CAN "recognize when it's being applied tastefully." And I can also recognize when it's not. I know that in the case of Jason Bieber; it is not being used tastefully. And I have heard him sing on a televised performance more than once in which it is clear that he is not a very good singer.

          I know (as anyone who has ears and know what a tuned voice sounds like) that they have to tune his entire performance because he is not very good. I also know that you know this. I will let others try to figure out why someone with the ears and experience that you have would choose to pretend that the emperor has new clothes when it is clear that he is naked. I will keep my own theories to myself.
          "It's all good; except when it's Great."

          www.jotown.com

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          • #80
            And I have no problem with using it that way. As a tool in an engineers toolkit to subtley tweak an otherwise good vocal perfomance in the way you describe it is a great thing. I have always said that in these discussions.


            I don't have a problem with that either -- not that anyone needs my approval! I don't do that personally, but I can totally see where it would be extremely beneficial.
            Ken Lee on 500px / Ken's Photo Store / Ken Lee Photography Facebook Website / Blueberry Buddha Studios / Ajanta Palace Houseboat - Kashmir / Hotel Green View - Kashmir / Eleven Shadows website / Ken Lee Photography Blog / Akai 12-track tape transfers / MY NEW ALBUM! The Mercury Seven

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            • #81
              So his submission is that - despite thousands of articles covering this - people don't know about AutoTune. I disagree. I've already provided links to many mainstream newspaper and magazine articles that discuss AutoTune, so we're not going to beat that horse to death again.


              HEY BRO

              I thought your replies to Brotown seemed a little more aggressive than was called for oke:

              I read his posts differently. I'm pretty sure he didn't mean "devoid of artifacts" literally, and I'm also pretty sure he wasn't suggesting that most people don't know Autotune exists.

              Unless I'm completely misunderstanding, he was simply saying the same thing I was: most people can't identify Autotune in a song if it's not in blatant robotic mode.
              My Own Machine

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              • #82
                I really can see Jotown's point in how its use can sometimes be fraudulent. Just because I disagree with him on a couple of his points doesn't mean I disagree with him entirely. Don't get me wrong...I am not an "extremist". I get why people use AutoTune, why certain situations would call for someone to tastefully correct a note or two, why people feel it sounds modern, and a bunch of other reasons. My position is simply this: I don't like the sound and feel it's insanely overused and tired sounding...not much different from the opinions that have been expressed by others.


                HEY AGAIN BRO

                I don't really disagree with any of this. And if I'm completely honest, I do let pitch correction make me a little lazy when it comes to vocal tracking. I am making an effort to get better though

                And while I'm being so honest, I'll also add that I sometimes use it to clean up vocals from people who have no business being in front of a mic. Fraud in the highest degree, no question
                My Own Machine

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                • #83
                  I'm pretty sure he didn't mean "devoid of artifacts" literally, and I'm also pretty sure he wasn't suggesting that most people don't know Autotune exists.

                  Unless I'm completely misunderstanding, he was simply saying the same thing I was: most people can't identify Autotune in a song if it's not in blatant robotic mode.
                  And that is exactly what I was saying, and exactly how I said it. I am glad that someone here actually read and understood what I have repeatedly said on the issue of autotune.

                  Thanks for chiming in. Also thank you for your honesty. I don't know an engineer who doesn't use it as you describe. It is just nice to hear someone admit it and, also admit what it is.
                  "It's all good; except when it's Great."

                  www.jotown.com

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                  • #84

                    From my own experience in talking to many people about this, I am all but certain that the vast majority of people cannot detect pitch correction when it is devoid of artifacts.


                    Just wondering.

                    Thanks for chiming in. Also thank you for your honesty. I don't know an engineer who doesn't use it as you describe. It is just nice to hear someone admit it and, also admit what it is.


                    Well, gee, I'm honest too...I can't use it because I don't own it!!!
                    Ken Lee on 500px / Ken's Photo Store / Ken Lee Photography Facebook Website / Blueberry Buddha Studios / Ajanta Palace Houseboat - Kashmir / Hotel Green View - Kashmir / Eleven Shadows website / Ken Lee Photography Blog / Akai 12-track tape transfers / MY NEW ALBUM! The Mercury Seven

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                    • #85
                      HEY BRO

                      I thought your replies to Brotown seemed a little more aggressive than was called for oke:


                      Yeah, you're probably quite right. I expressed some irritation because the inference is that people are ignorant, and that's just not a place that I come from. Maybe it's because I'm a teacher, I don't know, but it wasn't just from this thread. It's been a general theme that I find annoying in respect to music listeners. Maybe the jillions of articles casually mentioning autotune has biased me, I don't know, but my perspective is 180 degrees different from his. At any rate, I've tried to tone it down.
                      Ken Lee on 500px / Ken's Photo Store / Ken Lee Photography Facebook Website / Blueberry Buddha Studios / Ajanta Palace Houseboat - Kashmir / Hotel Green View - Kashmir / Eleven Shadows website / Ken Lee Photography Blog / Akai 12-track tape transfers / MY NEW ALBUM! The Mercury Seven

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                      • #86
                        This.

                        Next thing ya know, all the metal dudes will go re-record "We Are Stars" for Haiti


                        God, I hope so!
                        www.youtube.com/chrisalgoo
                        Singing clips for your enjoyment - New clips added weekly!

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                        • #87
                          I was just watching epic crashes in Olympic skiing. When I listen to someone like Justin Beaver I feel like someone at the studio stopped the tape, picked up the skier, dusted her off, and let her keep skiing - 430 times - until she won the gold.

                          But that's life, and while I'll mock it I'm not going to stress about it.
                          Those who made and endorsed our Constitution knew man's nature, and it is to their ideas, rather than to the temptations of utopia, that we must ask that our judges adhere.

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                          • #88


                            Nobody understands why I start helicopter vomiting whenever a character starts singing in Glee


                            + 1
                            www.guslozada.com

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                            • #89
                              Now Craig; with all due respect. It is clear your comment is directed at me. I definitely CAN "recognize when it's being applied tastefully." And I can also recognize when it's not. I know that in the case of Jason Bieber; it is not being used tastefully. And I have heard him sing on a televised performance more than once in which it is clear that he is not a very good singer.


                              Actually that comment was not even remotely directed at you (I wasn't even thinking of what you've said at the time), but at all the people who say "pitch correction sucks." To dismiss an entire technology based solely on people who misapply it seems short-sighted.

                              Now this may sound pretty bizarre, but...my #1 application for Sonar's V-Vocal is adding slides to bass, and slight pitch variations when I'm going for a fretless bass sound. As long as a sound source is mono, you can do pretty amazing things with V-Vocal, even if it has nothing to do with voice.
                              _____________________________________________
                              There are now 14 music videos posted on my YouTube channel, including four songs by Mark Longworth. Watch the music video playlist, subscribe, and spread the links! Check back often, because there's more to come...

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                              • #90
                                Actually that comment was not even remotely directed at you (I wasn't even thinking of what you've said at the time), but at all the people who say "pitch correction sucks." To dismiss an entire technology based solely on people who misapply it seems short-sighted.

                                Now this may sound pretty bizarre, but...my #1 application for Sonar's V-Vocal is adding slides to bass, and slight pitch variations when I'm going for a fretless bass sound. As long as a sound source is mono, you can do pretty amazing things with V-Vocal, even if it has nothing to do with voice.

                                Unfortunately it's not being misapplied anymore. If you hear it (or not), you were more than likely meant to. I don't see how any of tuning in WATW 25 is meant to fool anybody. It's extremely stark.

                                The previous pop trends didn't ruin the music for me, even if some songs became heavily dated. When set to stun and not used as an aesthetic, this is just... Making good singers sound worse. What's so fashionable about that?
                                The new blog: http://synonymmusic.blogspot.com/





                                Originally posted by Walters9515
                                yes he is SIG:

                                [...]where is where but where could where be because where is he to where ,where

                                I know u have a full blow studio where and haven't ever heard what a envelope follower is or have never used one in your life beside with a Quack which u are quacking like a rubber ducky in a tub

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