Members rasputin1963 Posted September 1, 2010 Members Share Posted September 1, 2010 We've spoken here at length about that complex guitar cluster that kicks off the Beatles' song "Help!". I have another Beatles mystery chord to consider. It's the second chord in the main theme of "Michelle". In other words: MI----CHELLE.........(boom)..........ma belle The chord played at that "boom" moment in the main theme of "Michelle". After the straight D chord and before the Fmaj7 chord. In Rock Harmony class at Berklee, I raised my hand and suggested that this chord was more complex than the "Gm7" chord...that is usually notated in sheet music and lead sheets. I was laughed at and gainsaid by fellow students and prof. Specifically, I suggested that, on the recording, it sounded more like a C7add9/add11 chord. Whatever it is, it's a "wittier", "softer" chord than that ponderous Gm7 chord proposed... I am sure that, with the vocal harmonies considered, I hear the notes "C" and "E" being implied. Your thoughts? I'm asking that you listen directly to the recording using your ears, not refer to any sheet music you possess. What say you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jon Gnash Posted September 1, 2010 Members Share Posted September 1, 2010 In Rock Harmony class at Berklee, I raised my hand and suggested that this chord was more complex than the "Gm7" chord...that is usually notated in sheet music and lead sheets. I was laughed at and gainsaid by fellow students and prof.Want respect? Load up your backpack with ammonium nitrate fertilizer; fill up a jug with gasoline, and bring it to class. See if they Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cooterbrown Posted September 1, 2010 Members Share Posted September 1, 2010 I think you are "hearing" more than is actually there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted September 1, 2010 Members Share Posted September 1, 2010 It's the second chord in the main theme of "Michelle". You're hearing the background vocals. That's what's confusing you. Also... The song is in F. The progression goes: F -- Bbm7. There is no "other" chord between the two. The only thing that happens on the "boom" that you indicate is the high background vocal "oooh" slides from the major A to Ab, which is what makes up the 7th note of the Bbm7. That's all. Nothing else there to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coyote-1 Posted September 1, 2010 Members Share Posted September 1, 2010 I'll have to give it a new listen. Been a long time since I played it so I forget the chords. But the OP might be right in what he's hearing in this sense: Any combo of notes played at a given moment can be identified as a chord, and any melodic note played during that time can be construed as an harmonic element of the chord. So if you are correct about the progression, the 'chord' at that moment would be an Fsus4.... F / Fsus4 / Bbm7. Will listen when I get home. You're hearing the background vocals. That's what's confusing you. Also...The song is in F. The progression goes: F -- Bbm7. There is no "other" chord between the two. The only thing that happens on the "boom" that you indicate is the high background vocal "oooh" slides from the major A to Ab, which is what makes up the 7th note of the Bbm7. That's all. Nothing else there to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members claveslave Posted September 1, 2010 Members Share Posted September 1, 2010 We've spoken here at length about that complex guitar cluster that kicks off the Beatles' song "Help!".What say you? Don't you mean "A Hard Day's Night" ? "Help" is pretty straightforward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Extreme Mixing Posted September 2, 2010 Members Share Posted September 2, 2010 Alan Pollack gives it a pretty thorough run down here. http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/DATABASES/AWP/m4.shtml The song is in F, with several detours to Fm and beyond. A good day's work for Paul. But then, many of you don't really think the Beatles were "all that". What was he? All of 23? By the way Ras, none of the chords you mentioned are right. Not even if you were to transpose the song to D. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cooterbrown Posted September 2, 2010 Members Share Posted September 2, 2010 Don't you mean "A Hard Day's Night" ? "Help" is pretty straightforward. I was gonna point all of this out - wrong key for "Michelle", no "mystery chord" on the "BOOM" he was talking about, calling "A Hards Day's Night" "Help"... He posted it at 10:30pm, so I think Ras had likely emptied a wine box by the time he made his original post, hence my first reply about "hearing more than is there." It was too crazy to even comment on. :poke: We still love you, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Taylor Davis Posted September 2, 2010 Members Share Posted September 2, 2010 could/would you tab that chord for me to see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goobers Posted September 3, 2010 Members Share Posted September 3, 2010 You're hearing the background vocals. That's what's confusing you. Also...The song is in F. The progression goes: F -- Bbm7. There is no "other" chord between the two. The only thing that happens on the "boom" that you indicate is the high background vocal "oooh" slides from the major A to Ab, which is what makes up the 7th note of the Bbm7. That's all. Nothing else there to hear. You're right about the music but you're wrong about what's confusing him. In another thread, he told me that he was smarter than me because he used bigger words. Then, it was overly complex words he was using inaccurately. Here, it's overly complex chords he's using inaccurately. It's not about being confused by background vocals. It's about him thinking he's smarter than other people, and that somehow making things overly complex confirms his delusions of superior intelligence. The song is beautiful because it's simple and unpretentious. I heard Paul McCartney sing it a few weeks ago. Glorious! Insult me all you like, Ras, but please do not insult Sir Paul! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted September 3, 2010 Members Share Posted September 3, 2010 Ras is a good guy and knows music well. We've all gotten confused about a piece before, or tried to imagine something being more complex than it is (or worse, more simple). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the stranger Posted September 3, 2010 Members Share Posted September 3, 2010 I'm amused Goober didn't know this was the "forum for old guys on an ego trip". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coyote-1 Posted September 3, 2010 Members Share Posted September 3, 2010 OK I listened. It is as the Weasel stated. But there's not even any non-chord tones in the backing vox. There is a passing tone in the bassline, just prior to the 'boom'. That's all, no mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members claveslave Posted September 3, 2010 Members Share Posted September 3, 2010 Alan Pollack gives it a pretty thorough run down here.http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/DATABASES/AWP/m4.shtml Who's that self appointed critic? Good lord. Tell him to sit down immediately. I've never read such garbage before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bookumdano2 Posted September 3, 2010 Members Share Posted September 3, 2010 I say run it through Melodyne and change all the chords to G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cooterbrown Posted September 3, 2010 Members Share Posted September 3, 2010 Who's that self appointed critic? Good lord. Tell him to sit down immediately. I've never read such garbage before. Allan Pollack - he's like the "Beatles conspiracy musical theorist" - or something, like that. Some of his analyses are LOL-worthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cooterbrown Posted September 3, 2010 Members Share Posted September 3, 2010 ...and I don't think Ras has posted since then,Hopefully he wasn't in the throes of an aneurysm, or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mark L Posted September 3, 2010 Members Share Posted September 3, 2010 You guys leave Ras alone He's my chum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lukenskywalker Posted September 4, 2010 Members Share Posted September 4, 2010 You guys leave Ras aloneHe's my chum And mine, and Cooter, I know you mentioned previously (in Jest) that he might have been into a Winebox when he started the thread... Ras has eschewed drinking for a while now, SSS benefits greatly from his posts, and I really never got the feeling he really thinks he is smarter than anyone on this site. He is an extremely intelligent Cat though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dan Furr Posted September 4, 2010 Members Share Posted September 4, 2010 Maybe it was played in Dm with a Capo ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members c10 Posted September 4, 2010 Members Share Posted September 4, 2010 The Compleat Beatles has it played with a capo at the 8th fret, FWIW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mark L Posted September 4, 2010 Members Share Posted September 4, 2010 He is an extremely intelligent Cat though. That is very true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Visconti Posted September 6, 2010 Members Share Posted September 6, 2010 I don't think there is a mystery chord. It just sounds like there is. [YOUTUBE]rlfiakRDS04[/YOUTUBE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vinceg Posted September 6, 2010 Members Share Posted September 6, 2010 Who's that self appointed critic? Good lord. Tell him to sit down immediately. I've never read such garbage before. What....you didn't find the comment about neo-schmaltzy fox-trot to be insightful and enlightening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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