Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 What sort of effects are on this recording? I really love the way the guitar sounds. And it sounds really unique. There's something going on here, something relatively subtle, but I can't put my finger on it. And I've never heard another song sound like it. Anyone know? I also love the way the last chord rings out. So beautiful. [YOUTUBE]Kj0Nng8b5eo[/YOUTUBE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cry Logic Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bron-Yr-Aur_(instrumental) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Sayers Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 Ken - in those days chorus was a new creation. Today you buy standard chorus effects but in those days we created our own. Phasing was where you shifted a delay from 0 - 10/20 msec modulating as it went so it went from 0 to 10msec and back to 0 based on the modulation signal, typically a sine wave. If you extended the delay to 60 - 100msec it created a chorus effect. In fact I used to set the chorus times to 8ths and 16ths of the tempo. The Primetime was a delay that was capable of doing that as were others of that time. the shifting of the time base created a doppler effect, the effect you get when a train whistle drops in pitch as it goes away and rises when it comes towards you. The modulating of the time base created a modulating pitch shift that we today call chorus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bbrown Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 This helps me too. If I can clean it up some(!) and add some chorus maybe I can get this tune right...... --Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 My brain goes straight to "Down By the Seaside" after that last chord. Too many sessions with the full PhysGraf album and a bong in my teen years, I suppose. Obviously, the open C tuning give it a fullness you wouldn't otherwise hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 21, 2010 Author Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 The chorusing sounds gorgeous. I really love that sound. The Wikipedia link says that it was a chorus pedal, but I didn't know that there were chorus pedals back then (see John's post above). But is there something else going on occasionally, like some sort of very subtle backward thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 The chorusing sounds gorgeous. I really love that sound. The Wikipedia link says that it was a chorus pedal, but I didn't know that there were chorus pedals back then (see John's post above).But is there something else going on occasionally, like some sort of very subtle backward thing? Actually, dedicated time based phase effects go back to the late sixties or maybe early 70s with devices like the Small Stone. http://www.ehx.com/about/artists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 21, 2010 Author Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 Oh, you know, you're right, I forgot that this song is from "Physical Graffiti", which is the mid-'70s. For some reason I had it stuck in my head that it was recorded in the late '60s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 Well, just 'cause the Wikipedia article calls it a chorus pedal doesn't mean it was actually a pedal -- it might have been achieved with a dedicated delay (I don't think I hear LFO mod in there on the effect; but even that could be hand-rolled with the right gear). That would be more likely assuming the instrument was miked. Pedals are typically designed for guitar pick up output rather than the line level one would expect from routing via an FX loop or send. That said, maybe Jimmy had been using a pedal on the song as he developed it and that was the easiest way to get the precise sound he wanted. More info would be needed... Also, let's not forget, more than a few tracks in the 60s had good ol' fashioned true flanging (using a couple of tape decks just a wee bit apart, time-wise), like "Itchycoo Park." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 21, 2010 Author Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 All good points, Mr. Blue. As an aside, ever since I heard this song as a kid, I've always really liked it. Everything about it...the melody, the way it's played, the sound, everything. I think my favorite song on "Physical Graffiti" is "Ten Years Gone", although there's quite a number of songs I love on there. But what I particularly love about "Ten Years Gone" is the "guitarchitecture"...the masterful orchestrating of all those different guitar sounds, done by changing guitars and amps to achieve all those different sounds and blending them together. Gorgeous!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Sayers Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 So it would have been recorded in late 74. The only pedals available at that time were Wah Wah and Fuzz which were Eq fx and distortion respectively. The lexicon Primetime was the only digital delay unit later to be followed by the eventide - these were full rack mount size units - there would have been no chorus pedals as the electronics of these units would never fit into a pedal. I suggest it was a Primetime as the effect sounds in stereo and the Primetime was stereo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cooterbrown Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 Roland's chorus in the JC-120 would not be available for another 1 1/2 years...the CH-1 came out after that.Could it have been a Uni-vibe or an actual Leslie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Sayers Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 yes - the Leslie is an interesting suggestion Jim. A lot of leslie's were modified to have a direct input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bp Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 Page was a big Eventide fan. I would bet it was an Eventide, not a Lexicon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bp Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 Just took a listen.... I'll go with the Instant Phaser, some reverb and little touches over reverse reverb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Sayers Posted October 22, 2010 Members Share Posted October 22, 2010 bp - it was recorded in late 74 - I'm not sure the instant phaser was released then - but maybe he had a pre-release version.I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted October 22, 2010 Members Share Posted October 22, 2010 Really, it could have been done in several different ways...but the panning to me sounds not like panpot panning, but the imaging changes that happen with time or phase changes. It could be subtle tape flanging, with perhaps out of phase feedback or inverted mixing to give the "panning" effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted October 22, 2010 Members Share Posted October 22, 2010 All good points, Mr. Blue.As an aside, ever since I heard this song as a kid, I've always really liked it. Everything about it...the melody, the way it's played, the sound, everything.I think my favorite song on "Physical Graffiti" is "Ten Years Gone", although there's quite a number of songs I love on there. But what I particularly love about "Ten Years Gone" is the "guitarchitecture"...the masterful orchestrating of all those different guitar sounds, done by changing guitars and amps to achieve all those different sounds and blending them together. Gorgeous!!!After I saw that odd mostly-live movie of them in the mid-70s (the one with the fantasy sequences inserted for each member), I decided that it was just there -- as an arranger of guitar parts in the multitrack studio -- that was really Jimmy Page's genius lay at the time. (I saw them live in '68, but I was in a kid, still in high school, didn't play guitar yet and was really swayed more by the whole sonic assault thing.) Sitting there in the movie theatre, thinking about how much I loved their studio albums and how much I wasn't much loving Jimmy's playing live in the movie, and thinking about it afterward, listening to Houses of the Holy, I remember thinking, well, it's all about the studio craft, then, innit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bp Posted October 22, 2010 Members Share Posted October 22, 2010 bp - it was recorded in late 74 - I'm not sure the instant phaser was released then - but maybe he had a pre-release version.I They had the Instant Phaser then. It's all over Kashmir. link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted October 22, 2010 Members Share Posted October 22, 2010 They had the Instant Phaser then. It's all over Kashmir. Which is on the same album, yes. On "Kashmir" it's most noticeable on the drums. Page was a really innovative producer. I always appreciated the way he treated the studio as its own instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted October 22, 2010 Members Share Posted October 22, 2010 FOUND THE ANSWER... It was engineer Ron Nevison's Eventide Instant Phaser that was used all over Physical Graffiti. That settles that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Sayers Posted October 22, 2010 Members Share Posted October 22, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 22, 2010 Author Members Share Posted October 22, 2010 FOUND THE ANSWER... It was engineer Ron Nevison's Eventide Instant Phaser that was used all over Physical Graffiti. That settles that. Same here: http://mixonline.com/recording/tracking/audio_notes_pe_wing_7/ I just found this a few minutes ago! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted October 23, 2010 Members Share Posted October 23, 2010 I just found this a few minutes ago! Yes, but I am the Internet Ninja and found it first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted October 23, 2010 Members Share Posted October 23, 2010 Ken, they used the Waves plug ins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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