Are You A Chord Snob?

[Mark L]

roomjello's thread got me thinking about this

 

Not that I'm insinuating that the above gentleman is a chord snob

 

I tend to make do with majors, minors, 7ths, minor 7ths and major 7ths

[Jeff da Weasel]

I use the chords that the song tells me to use. Sometimes that's very, very basic stuff; sometimes it's crazy inversions and suspensions and so on. But I don't think anyone is a snob for using particular chords. The more you know, the better chance you'll have of pulling out the "right" one for the moment.

[WRGKMC]

I've always loved to listyen to those old 40's jazz guitarists who could walk those chords all over the neck.

I been getting some decent DVD's sent from Net Flix with jazz guitarists and it reminded me of how complex

just chords alone can get. Only knowing major and minor barre chords and 7ths is like only being able to speak

three words. it kind of limits your conversation no matter how loud you speak. When I find myself getting in a rut

playing I try and discover why and what does it come down to? Right. Those basic chords are stale news.

Even if you dont actually play fancy chords, listening to a master at it can awaken many possibilities.

A guitar has the ability to do it all, lead, melody, harmony and bass and even some percussion.

The type of chords music may require really comes down to the arrangement.

If your chords are boaring chances are, so is your arrangement. Getting an oddball chord in there that has some

diminished oa augmented notes, using passing chords changing positions can really spice things up.

I find writing my own material i can use alot of basic chords. But if I dont have at least one cool sounding chord

arpegio, something in ther to catch your attension the song just falls flat no matter how good the performance is.

Arrangement rules, dont neglect it.

[nat whilk II]

An interesting point about how fancy one does or doesn't get with chords.

 

As chords include more intervals above the triad, it seems to me that you probably leave most of the average listeners behind - they can't really distinguish or get too excited about subtle differences between complex chords.

 

They DO seem to pick up on unusual changes or abrupt modulations, but 9ths, 11ths, 13ths, clever voicings, and the occasional aug/dim and/or added non-harmonics - I'm not sure much is registered except "this is jazzy" or "this sounds exotic" or some other suchlike reaction.

 

The intervals above the triad have always seemed to me to make the various chords sound more alike as they all start to have more shared notes. And classic voice-leading is all about smoothness, too. At some point, it all gets too smooth for the rock/country/folk crowd. Of course, in jazz, all these shared notes between chords gives the soloist more notes to play with, more options.

 

In the long run, I value a brilliant simplicity more than an amazing complexity. An artist with the true gift of simplicity can make I-IV-V evoke things they've never quite evoked before. But I also get really juiced when some jazzer manages to juggle an impossible number of complex intervals and changes and make it sound easy and sincere. Depends.....

 

nat whilk ii

[Mark L]

I'm regretting starting this thread

 

It makes me look like a chord ignoramus

[Mark L]

I like this chord progression - I used it in a song called 'I'm Getting Old':

 

C, Em, Gm, A

 

Dm, Dm, G, G7

 

Simple but effective

[kurdy]

I think I might be a little unusual as a keyboardist, in that I

[Mark L]

I think I might be a little unusual as a keyboardist, in that I

[roomjello]

Nads, while i'm not sure what a chord snob would be, i think of chords as color or tension. And after a while, if you expose yourself to different types of music, you get pretty bored of listening to the basic chords, i do anyway. They serve their purpose and in many ways are the only options if you want to keep true to some styles, although that is changing.

In even light rock, not to mention metal we are hearing all kinds of sharp 11 chords, 13 and 9 chords etc all the time now, and they sound sickly hip, because they have been introduced and used musically. And the voicings make a huge difference as to how they come across.

Listen to the intro of Vasoline by the stone temple pilots from long ago, that is a sickly hip chord, Bb dom shrp 11, leading to G.

 

If you learn some theory chords are easy to understand, they are harder to use, and my approach is to spend some time with one for a while and try to internalize it's sound and character.

[LeonardScaper]

I use the chords that the song tells me to use.

 

Me to.

 

Luckily my songs like C, D, G and F a lot. Last one insisted on Am.......that was still cool.

[Mark L]

Nads, while i'm not sure what a chord snob would be, i think of chords as color or tension. And after a while, if you expose yourself to different types of music, you get pretty bored of listening to the basic chords, i do anyway. They serve their purpose and in many ways are the only options if you want to keep true to some styles, although that is changing. In even light rock, not to mention metal we are hearing all kinds of sharp 11 chords, 13 and 9 chords etc all the time now, and they sound sickly hip, because they have been introduced and used musically. And the voicings make a huge difference as to how they come across. Listen to the intro of Vasoline by the stone temple pilots from long ago, that is a sickly hip chord, Bb dom shrp 11, leading to G. If you learn some theory chords are easy to understand, they are harder to use, and my approach is to spend some time with one for a while and try to internalize it's sound and character.

 

I hear what you're saying about colour and tension and what-have-you

 

I actually do know about chord-construction, it's just that the sort of cheesy pop {censored}e I tend to write usually just requires pretty basic chords. There's a song of mine entitled 'The Reason I'm Here' which features a diminished chord, believe it or not! But that's as complex as my stuff gets

 

I love listening to jazz, by the way. I just don't want to play it

[roomjello]

 

An interesting point about how fancy one does or doesn't get with chords. As chords include more intervals above the triad, it seems to me that you probably leave most of the average listeners behind - they can't really distinguish or get too excited about subtle differences between complex chords. They DO seem to pick up on unusual changes or abrupt modulations, but 9ths, 11ths, 13ths, clever voicings, and the occasional aug/dim and/or added non-harmonics - I'm not sure much is registered except "this is jazzy" or "this sounds exotic" or some other suchlike reaction. The intervals above the triad have always seemed to me to make the various chords sound more alike as they all start to have more shared notes. And classic voice-leading is all about smoothness, too. At some point, it all gets too smooth for the rock/country/folk crowd. Of course, in jazz, all these shared notes between chords gives the soloist more notes to play with, more options. In the long run, I value a brilliant simplicity more than an amazing complexity. An artist with the true gift of simplicity can make I-IV-V evoke things they've never quite evoked before. But I also get really juiced when some jazzer manages to juggle an impossible number of complex intervals and changes and make it sound easy and sincere. Depends..... nat whilk ii

 

 

There is always the simple yet complex approach.

 

for C-F-D7-G7

substitute

G/C, F/A, C/D, F/G

[Paul McCartney]

Are You A Chord Snob?

 

 

No.

 

I am a food and beverage snob, if at all.

[kurdy]

Having said that, you can play the intro to 'Mr. Crowley', I'll bet

 

Had to do a YouTube search for that one.

 

Yeah, I suppose I could. The question is, do I want to?

[Lee Knight]

Chord snob?!?!?

 

I'm not sure what that means. I love Bob Dylan strumming "how many roads must a...". It sounds great to me. But you know... listen to McCartney's simple piano work. Maybe I'm Amazed. Lady Madonna. Hey Jude...

 

...the guy was searching for the chord. Being a bass player, he tended to do some pretty cool sounding slash chords C/E, etc. Is that snobbish? Of course not. He didn't know the names, but he understood the "matrix" and how it felt. How that one note can pull things, under the right lyric, in such a way that you as a listener go, "Oooo, yeah".

 

That's not snobbery. That's optimizing your 3 minutes.

[blue2blue]

I can usually figure out the names of chords if I have a half a minute, but I tend to use a lot of arpeggiation, and movement, as well as integrating open strings more than many folks do, even in my electric playing. So, with fairly complex chords of opportunity and/or convenience, as well as a restless left, I have to stop to figure out what to call what I played -- but it usually doesn't matter much to anyone I play with, so I'm usually happy to just pass along a general clue as to what one might call the chords we're playing.

[philbo]

I tend to make up a lot of chords. They're probably not my inventions, but I put them together on the spot when songwriting or sometimes when performing to suit the needs of the song.

 

Lately I've been having fun discovering how many sweet-sounding chords can be made with only 2 fretted note plus various open strings; the variety is pretty amazing.

 

I usually don't know the name of the chord at the time, I only figure that out if I'm writing out a new song so it doesn't get forgotten.

 

I agree with Jeff that certain chords or inversions have specific colors. It is the blending and changes in them that give a tune an interesting flavor.

[rasputin1963]

yes. I am a chord snob. I positively LIVE for things like:

 

1). the whole-tone scale

2). melodies based on blue notes

3). 13th chords

4). 6/9 chords

5). #11 chords

6). b5 chords

7). Augmented chords

8). Diminished chords

9). b9 and #9 chords

10). modal relationships

 

If you're playing three-chord rock or three-chord country, then I'm {censored}ing not coming to your live show or going to buy your CDs. Dylan got away with it only because his lyrics were so prolific and inspired and dense; otherwise, lyrics are there to suit the music, not the other way around. (And even lots of Dylan cuts are stupefyingly boring... "Wiggle Wiggle", anyone?). So if you're not a Bob Dylan, don't hide behind that "I'm a political poet" bull{censored}. Dylan was comfortably middle-class anyway, not an NYC street urchin; don't be seduced by THAT pose.

 

Harmony extensions (those coloring notes which include your 7ths on up to your 13ths) really are the {censored}, and they have always been the {censored}. They were used in pop music from the 1920's to the mid-1970's. They sounded good then, and they sound incredible now. Are they required learning? To all except maybe the "27 Club", they are.

 

The pop musician who deigns not to use them is not revealing his "rootsiness" or "street cred" or "honesty" or whatnot; he is revealing his ignorance, callowness and timidity. As soon as you have figured out your basic major and minor triads-- and blues scale--- then you need to bust your ass to start learning more sophisticated harmonies-- whatever your axe. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Don't make ignorance a dubious virtue. Only teenagers brag that they "did all this... without knowing any music!".

 

Choose to emulate, as your musical heroes, people like Roy Clark and Eric Clapton, Ann Wilson, Sting and Glen Campbell: cats who can give you the most stripped-down, stupidest, dirtiest country and blues.... but who also can dazzle you with full-toned musical mastery of their instrument.

 

[video=youtube;ATPqm9agIr8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATPqm9agIr8&feature=related

 

[video=youtube;OxWSOuNsN20]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxWSOuNsN20

 

[video=youtube;Hn-enjcgV1o]

 

[video=youtube;pk2s_H-stfA]

[Etienne Rambert]

I really admire composers who can do it all w/basic chords. I can't.

So I use exotic chords a lot. It's not a snobbish thing. It's more of a crutch.

 

There is some magic to certain chord combinations though.

[roomjello]

I'm regretting starting this thread

Boy i bet it's really bad now

[elsongs]

I prefer the term chord connoisseur.

 

 

I normally avoid basic major and minor chords. I'll favor a m7 over a m like 85% of the time.

 

I see musical notes as letters, chords as words and chord progressions as sentences, which convey an idea or an emotion. Chord knowledge is just like having a vocabulary, and the more you know your chords, the more you can be articulate expressing your ideas/emotions though music. It's even sadder when R&B music, mostly known for m7/Maj7 and the like goes with simple Major and minor chords today.

 

The simple major/minor chords and I-VI-IV-V or I-V-VI-IV progression pop radio seems to be using today (moreso than 20+ years ago) to me kinda suggests a lack of musical knowledge. It's the equivalent to saying, "ME VERY HAPPY" rather than saying, "I'm overwhelmed with ecstatic emotions!"

 

I'm one of those freaks who pay attention to the chord progression first over melody, rhythm and lyrics to base the quality of a song on.

 

If that makes me a chord snob, then so be it

[Ernest Buckley]

 

I use the chords that the song tells me to use.

 

 

Yes. Honestly though, I use mostly major/minor stuff. If anything, my chord progressions probably lean a little more on the "progressive" side... not progressive rock but more along the lines of mixing major and minor modes.

 

The other thing is, I`m not really a guitarist but I tend to write mostly on the guitar so a lot of chords I play don`t really exist. I like to let the bottom three strings ring out a lot... the G B E strings.

[Extreme Mixing]

I like this chord progression - I used it in a song called 'I'm Getting Old': C, Em, Gm, A Dm, Dm, G, G7 Simple but effective

 

Saul T,

 

You like these chords BECAUSE they contain notes that are outside any one particular key. That's what makes them sound good to you. It looks to me like the song is in the key of C, buy you are inserting two chords--the A major that is not in the key of C. A has a C# note in it rather than a C natural. The G minor has the Bb in it which is the b7 in the key of C. Those chords give you a sense of home and away. When you'r playing the C Em Dm and G G7, your're solidly in the key of C. The other chords, Gm and A, take you to different home keys, depending on how get to them. I think you will like an Fm and a BbM, as well. Try them out.

 

For the record, I much prefer simple chords form outside the key--say using chords from Cm in the key of CM than thinking of them as altered notes in some other chord in the diatonic scale. As in, Im in the key of B, but all of a sudden I'm playing a Bm7 and it sounds great and takes me to a new place. Or playing Dm, Bb, F, C. Then adding in the Asus7 to A. Totally out of the key of Dm (same notes as F) but it sounds great.

 

Steve

[144dB]

Jeff da Weasel said it best...

 

The music you're writing is largely going to dictate what chords sound appropriate. As a keyboard player, I have no trouble playing 8-note clusters or simple 2-note intervals. The 8-note, two-handed clusters are only going to sound appropriate in certain genres or contexts, and even some of the best jazz was done with fairly thin voicings.

 

I *am* a snob when it comes to communicating chords. If I say to a guitar player, "just play a C7 chord and suspend the 4th" and I get a blank stare, it's frustrating. It's in everyone's best interest to understand the structure of chords and be able to play any chord on demand. To sit there and wait for someone "feel" their way around the fret board until they find the right notes is a waste of time. I'm not picking on guitar players... It could be any instrument.

 

But I will also say that many folks who think their chord vocabulary is limited are probably playing more complex chords than they realize on a daily basis. If you've played 12 bar blues, chances are you're already familiar with basic seventh chords. If you've played Van Halen rhythm parts, you've played 9th and 11th chords (or sus2's and sus4's).

[Anderton]

I started off playing classical guitar, then got into jazz guitar (Wes Montgomery, Jim Hall, etc.) so especially with the jazz - and thanks to the Mickey Baker guitar method book - I could play a pretty impressive array of chords, and used them in jazz songs. As I got more and more into rock, the chords got simpler and simpler...direct...dictated by the song, as others here have mentioned...but I do believe that voicing chords, and being able to play a simple chord in any position, is more effective than being able to throw in substitutions. I love using block chords to play solos, with the top note of the chord providing the melody line.