Members temnov Posted July 20, 2011 Members Share Posted July 20, 2011 I know couple of guys who are proud that they are not very well educated in the field. They say they are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted July 20, 2011 Members Share Posted July 20, 2011 Well, manifestly, there are folks out there who have helmed the production and engineering of well-liked, successful records who have famously embarrassed themselves by pontificating on technical subjects it turns out they really didn't have a technical grasp on. I think that's suggestive that they had a good intuitive feel for working in the studio, even when they didn't really understand how it worked. But they could probably have saved themselves some embarrassment -- and the rest of us a broadening of the already huge base of misinformation and misunderstanding -- had they just kept their yaps shut about stuff they really didn't understand. That said, there are more than a few time I wish I had kept my yap shut. Even when I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members roomjello Posted July 20, 2011 Members Share Posted July 20, 2011 Everyone has certain strengths and weaknesses. Everyone has a better grasp on something than something else.Those who work hard and smart tend to have a more even skill set and are more consistent.If you do it long enough you learn what you need to learn.Is there a natural sound engineer,?I would say there are probably some with better aptitudes to start with, but that is about it. The rest is experience gained, either in or out of the CR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members temnov Posted July 21, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 21, 2011 The rest is experience gained, either in or out of the CR. That's what they say. I think though that it's not enough just to work hard (unless you mean educate yourself). My point is and was you have to learn - all the time. You stop learning - you are not relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Beck Posted July 21, 2011 Members Share Posted July 21, 2011 I know couple of guys who are proud that they are not very well educated in the field. They say they are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted July 21, 2011 Members Share Posted July 21, 2011 This falls under the definition or Talent and Aptitude. When someone is considered to have been given a gift for art or gifted talent for anything, its simply and aptitude to learn. No more no less. The one who has the aptitude and passion to learnwill put in many, many hours over others. When seen at work displaying that talent by othersthey do not see the hard work and hours that person put in to learn their craft. They only see the results displayed. Of couse you have some who learn things right the first time and others who bang their heads against the same mistakes over and over before they wise up. This comes down to aptitude to learn amd memory. I would think someone mentally healthy who hasnt cooked all thir brain cells would have better aptitudethe same it is for learning anything that takes balance, awareness and dicipline. Engineering is no different than any other art. It takes a creative minds eyeafter the tools are mastered to craft a good aural image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members roomjello Posted July 21, 2011 Members Share Posted July 21, 2011 That's what they say.I think though that it's not enough just to work hard (unless you mean educate yourself). My point is and was you have to learn - all the time. You stop learning - you are not relevant. Yes of course i mean educate, but through experience, not by reading magazines trying to sell you junk. Not relevant? Even the most uneducated novice is and can be very relevant and has potential to do something great if they follow the direction of their instincts and personal director so to speak. It is those who feel they must listen to others and learn strictly from outside of themselves and who have no or little confidence in their own hearts direction, or they do not know how to listen to that little voice that is unique in them, those people are in danger of being irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 21, 2011 Moderators Share Posted July 21, 2011 Looking out through the control room glass I used to feel uninspired And when I knew I had to face another ass Lord, it made me feel so tired Before the day I met you, tracking was so unkind But your musicianship was the key to peace of mind You make me feelYou make me feelYeah, you make me feel like a natural sound engineer (sound engineer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hard Truth Posted July 21, 2011 Members Share Posted July 21, 2011 IMO a "natural" audio engineer is someone with the right disposition (patience and people skills) and ability to focus on details and troubleshoot. But such a person still needs to acquire a lot of knowledge-which they can do through training, reading or experimenting/working. The music/recording industry is so reliant on myths and oral traditions that an "engineer" (really an audio equipment operator) without technical knowledge, but with good intuition and ears, can probably be considered reasonably good, unlike any other type of "engineer." But... People who won't get trained or read manuals, magazines, books might be able to learn the basic skills through experience, but that sure seems like the hard and slow way to do it. They would not be able to look at the specs and instructions for a new device and know how it can be use, they would have to spend time playing with it. I would also think that their troubleshooting skills would be limited to only the usual problems, not a new problem. On the other hand, training and book knowledge is not enough for the job either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mark L Posted July 21, 2011 Members Share Posted July 21, 2011 I am an unnatural sound engineer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted July 22, 2011 Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 Got you beat, I am a supernatureal engineer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Paul McCartney Posted July 30, 2011 Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 I know couple of guys who are proud that they are not very well educated in the field. They say they are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted July 30, 2011 Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 I am an unnatural sound engineer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mark L Posted July 30, 2011 Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 Exhibit A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted August 1, 2011 Members Share Posted August 1, 2011 I know couple of guys who are proud that they are not very well educated in the field. They say they are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members temnov Posted August 1, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 1, 2011 Calling it 'organic' is putting a new spin on it though. Maybe they should consider marketing instead... They do it as well, in "organic" way, too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 I think the most important thing is to know what sounds good. I realize that this is very subjective but maybe that is why it works. Someone who's subjective idea of what sounds good may record or reinforce in a way that is pleasing to a lot of people. Learning the technology helps in getting to the 'right' sound but I'm sure someone with good acoustic judgement could learn a lot on their own through experimentation. "Oops, I better not turn that up so far again" as opposed to "What frequency did the instructor suggest to cut for the kick drum?" Obviously the best engineers are the ones with the 'ears' who may have some formal training and have learned from their experienced and successful peers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members karlw Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 This falls under the definition or Talent and Aptitude. When someone is considered to have been given a gift for art or gifted talent for anything, its simply and aptitude to learn. No more no less. The one who has the aptitude and passion to learnwill put in many, many hours over others. When seen at work displaying that talent by othersthey do not see the hard work and hours that person put in to learn their craft. They only see the results displayed. Of couse you have some who learn things right the first time and others who bang their heads against the same mistakes over and over before they wise up. This comes down to aptitude to learn amd memory. I would think someone mentally healthy who hasnt cooked all thir brain cells would have better aptitudethe same it is for learning anything that takes balance, awareness and dicipline. Engineering is no different than any other art. It takes a creative minds eyeafter the tools are mastered to craft a good aural image. I agree with this for the most part but along with the aptitude, I think talent is the desire to do something. Something has to compel someone to spend the time, sweat, money, agony, etc. to reach their goal. What is that thing? You can have the aptitude but not the desire. Some people hear better than others, but training your ears can overcome this difference or even reverse it. I used to say that "your ears are your most important tool in sound engineering." Sure, they are awfully important, no doubt. But in the past 10 years, I've changed to saying "your brain is the most important tool" because learning is required in order to use the tools you have (your ears). Let's say you hear a hum in the audio. What do you do about it? Well, a "good" ear can identify that the hum exists, or maybe that it sounds a certain way. But an educated ear can distinguish between 60 Hz, 120 and 180, and know that these differences might have a lot to do with the source of the hum, which then leads to what to do about correcting it. Are their great engineers that don't know things like this? Sure. But my take is that if we're not learning new things and getting better at our craft, we'll end up in a blind alley. You can hear this with "old school" rock mixes that don't sound so hot because the person behind the console has not evolved with the changes in technology and/or musical aesthetics and/or audience taste. And sometimes these same guys truly believe that they are doing a perfect job. My last thought is that whenever someone puts a spin on things like "I'm an organic sound engineer" or "I don't believe in PowerPoint" or "I think only natural light should be used for photography" these are people who don't understand the alternatives, and this is their way of rationalizing it. They're actually afraid of what they don't know. But somehow I doubt that admitting your fears will get you the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 To piggyback on your point, Karl (hello, by the way!), I've also found that the only people who have said to me, "I think music lessons stifle creativity" are the people who have never had music lessons. They lack an understanding of what music lessons can give you and how much one can learn from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 My last thought is that whenever someone puts a spin on things like "I'm an organic sound engineer" or "I don't believe in PowerPoint" or "I think only natural light should be used for photography" these are people who don't understand the alternatives, and this is their way of rationalizing it. They're actually afraid of what they don't know. But somehow I doubt that admitting your fears will get you the job. I like the way you put that. It applies to many things and I think it is much more valid than saying a person is stupid or wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members js1 Posted August 7, 2011 Members Share Posted August 7, 2011 Sounds like the "Think" system from the musical "The Music Man". A good marketing name for "inexperience". But, in the interest of fairness, can you post some links to the work of some of these guys? js Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members temnov Posted August 8, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 8, 2011 can you post some links to the work of some of these guys? Sure. But I don't think it's the right thing to do. One thing is to ask a question in theory for opinion of people you respect, another one is to nail a real person. I don't have to agree with their methods and ways but I respect them nevertheless. I believe that one can be very talented but to really succeed in any business one should learn non-stop. They don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members js1 Posted August 9, 2011 Members Share Posted August 9, 2011 I know couple of guys who are proud that they are not very well educated in the field. They say they are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members temnov Posted August 9, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 9, 2011 or if they sounded like any other enthusiastic inexperienced amateur. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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