Members 144dB Posted July 31, 2011 Members Share Posted July 31, 2011 "Fun" and "FM" probably haven't appeared in many sentences together, but as a keyboard player who was brought up on subtractive synthesis, FM is pretty interesting. I've had NI's FM7 for many years (and our own Craig Anderton helped write the manual ), but I never ventured much further than the Easy edit page or the randomization feature. Now I'm initializing patches and building them from scratch. I've managed to create a few good monophonic lead sounds, and today I created a great patch for punchy, mid-range chords (the chord patch sounds more like a Synclavier than a Yamaha). I don't know if I would want to attempt programming with a single data slider and a two-line, non-backlit LCD, but with FM7, you can move pretty quick. And it's DEEP. If I buy Komplete one day I'll have FM8, but I haven't felt compelled to upgrade otherwise. We'll see what the next few weeks of programming bring... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted July 31, 2011 Members Share Posted July 31, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted July 31, 2011 Members Share Posted July 31, 2011 Well as you can probably tell from the manual, I'm into FM synthesis... Back when I played MIDI guitar, my tone generator of choice was FM. It was the closest I could come to sounds with a guitar-like character. FWIW I was never into MIDI guitar to play pianos from a guitar or any of that stuff, but to be able to control electronic sounds with guitar gestures...FM is perfect for that. Here's a hint: Very short decay transients from modulators modulating other modulators that eventually feed into the carrier. Have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mats Nermark Posted July 31, 2011 Members Share Posted July 31, 2011 Hi, I've loved FM since I got one of the very first DX7s that came to Sweden. I was very happy when FM7 showed up because it allowed me to import me old DX7 patches and take them further. FM8 is just another logical step further. Cheers, Mats N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rjt Posted July 31, 2011 Members Share Posted July 31, 2011 I like all of the different approaches to synthesis and FM has always fascinated me. In addition to a bunch of software synths, I have an SY77. They are fun to play and I have (at times) done some programming. I'm feeling inspired to give one a whirl.... if I'm not too tired after my hike today! Have fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 144dB Posted July 31, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 31, 2011 Back when I played MIDI guitar, my tone generator of choice was FM. It was the closest I could come to sounds with a guitar-like character. The monophonic lead sounds that I came up with have a very guitar-like quality to them. When I bend and use the mod wheel, they really come to life. Now that I understand the structure of FM sounds, I'm going to start dissecting some of the presets to see how they were made. Thanks again, Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 144dB Posted July 31, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 31, 2011 In addition to a bunch of software synths, I have an SY77. I'm a big fan of the SY's... They were DEEP instruments. I wish FM7/FM8 could read SY programs, but that would require the original waveform ROM, which I'm sure Yamaha would not easily provide (especially given the competition between Yamaha/Steinberg and NI). I've watched some Youtube demos of the SY77/SY99, and some of the textures are amazing. Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rjt Posted July 31, 2011 Members Share Posted July 31, 2011 The ability to integrate the SY waveforms with FM layers, not to mention the ability to use the waveforms when creating FM sounds, made them deep indeed. I was a bit (okay fanatic) of a patch collector in those days and some people made some really amazing sounds with that instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 144dB Posted July 31, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 31, 2011 The standout features to me (on the FM7/FM8) are the ability to load sysex data from the DX7/DX7-II (a HUGE library), as well as the ability to design custom algorithms on the fly. Then you have ~32 waveforms to pick from in addition to sine waves, and two additional operators in the form of a noise source/input and a multi-band filter. And when you add all the conveniences of a virtual instrument (e.g. unlimited polyphony, total recall, automation, etc.), it's a pretty powerful package. It's deep... And sometimes you can get some very pleasing tones from very simple setups. Just a two-op patch can produce some nice full chords with a carrier and a modulator. The factory sounds are pretty impressive, but I wish NI still offered the extension set (256 additional patches). I'm all for programming, but sometimes it's nice to have a starting point. Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zooey Posted August 1, 2011 Members Share Posted August 1, 2011 Off topic, but the history of FM synthesis is kind of cool. It was developed by a professor at Stanford's CCRMA program in the seventies and became Stanford's most lucrative patenting licensing program of the day. CCRMA still partners with audio companies and a lot of software engineers at companies you've heard of come out of that program. I worked on a mentoring program between a leading audio company and CCRMA (in a legal capacity, I'm not cool enough to be an engineer). Though I did play guitar as a session musician on an album recorded in the studios there several years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted August 1, 2011 Members Share Posted August 1, 2011 The story I heard was when John Chowning demonstrated his work (with Stanford) on FM, Yamaha bought it immediately. In five years they took what first filled two rooms and put it into a keyboard that we could tuck under our arm. It was affordable and reliable - two of the great features of most things Yamaha. I did a lot of programming with mine with the single slider and pages of menus but I quickly got a backlit display for it. I learned a lot by trading patches with other musicians and analyzing. I was in the house/warmup band at a show bar that had many acts coming through and most had DX7s at the time. It seems like programing that way would be a slow go by todays standards but, to me, it was worth it because of the great dynamic and expressive sounds that could be achieved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pigger Posted August 8, 2011 Members Share Posted August 8, 2011 I've probably spent more time & had more fun making patches on my original DX-7 than on any synth I've had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mats Nermark Posted August 8, 2011 Members Share Posted August 8, 2011 I've probably spent more time & had more fun making patches on my original DX-7 than on any synth I've had. Same here! Although I was into analog before that the DX-7 is where my career really started. Cheers, Mats N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Iamthesky Posted August 9, 2011 Members Share Posted August 9, 2011 I've been seriously tempted recently to pick up a DX7. There's only one song we do that really stands out where I want FM over subtractive, but it just would be really fun to program it to play on a DX7. I'm sure I'd find other excuses to use it too. Currently I'm using a Korg Z1, which does the job of course, but a DX7 is... a DX7. And it'd look great to have one on stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rasputin1963 Posted August 12, 2011 Members Share Posted August 12, 2011 FM synthesis really is fun and intriguing. I had a bit of a learning curve with it (the idea that some nodes are carriers, others modulators). At one point in time, I had an SY77... it allowed you to blend wavetable samples with FM modules. That was pretty cool. In fact, I wouldn't mind having that keyboard again right now. Why did I sell it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Don Solaris Posted August 13, 2011 Members Share Posted August 13, 2011 not to mention the ability to use the waveforms when creating FM sounds, made them deep indeed.It's called Realtime Convolution and Modulation aka RCM synthesis. While impressive on paper, results are not so spectacular. I know how to program an FM synth and (unfortunately) spent a lot of time on SY-77 working in RCM hoping to achieve something new and unheard, soon realizing that the results are more less similar in the nature. Type of a waveform distortion characteristic for an average waveform shaper. And for that i can highly recommend Absynth instead. */Hope this will save you a few months of life. **/Wish somebody posted this before i bought SY-77 back in 2003. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rasputin1963 Posted August 13, 2011 Members Share Posted August 13, 2011 It's called Realtime Convolution and Modulation aka RCM synthesis. While impressive on paper, results are not so spectacular. I know how to program an FM synth and (unfortunately) spent a lot of time on SY-77 working in RCM hoping to achieve something new and unheard, soon realizing that the results are more less similar in the nature. . The way I ended up using this combo on the SY77, was to use the FM channels to "beef up" a wave sample. ie., use their sampled horn attack... then use FM to create the sustained horn sound. It was kind of hit-and-miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Don Solaris Posted August 14, 2011 Members Share Posted August 14, 2011 The way I ended up using this combo on the SY77, was to use the FM channels to "beef up" a wave sample. They way i ended - i've sold SY-77. I must admit i sampled a lot of the patches before selling it, because they were very unique in character, thanks to good old DA converters and the engine itself. However, i can not forgive myself all the months lost on the machine, programming these patches. Too many parameters to set, to little time, and that flaky display was total turn off. Recently moved to DX-7II FD and i'm in love! So easy to edit even without the editor. Funny thing is, it offers more realtime control per FM element than the SY-77. I think every FM aficionado should have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rasputin1963 Posted August 17, 2011 Members Share Posted August 17, 2011 Am I right in remembering that FM patches........are f****ing loud? I recall that many, if not most, FM patches I made were so dense and rich in timbre... that a number of them just DOMINATED any amplification system I ran them through. I often had to tweak and tweak to get my FM patches not to sound boomy/blatty/overpowering, and to more-or-less match the wavesample's timbre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rjt Posted August 17, 2011 Members Share Posted August 17, 2011 It's called Realtime Convolution and Modulation aka RCM synthesis. While impressive on paper, results are not so spectacular. I know how to program an FM synth and (unfortunately) spent a lot of time on SY-77 working in RCM hoping to achieve something new and unheard, soon realizing that the results are more less similar in the nature. Type of a waveform distortion characteristic for an average waveform shaper. And for that i can highly recommend Absynth instead. */Hope this will save you a few months of life. **/Wish somebody posted this before i bought SY-77 back in 2003. Good info, I have Absynth too........ when I retire in another 18 months or so, I plan to do some more programming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goobers Posted August 17, 2011 Members Share Posted August 17, 2011 {censored} FM synthesis and its crispy little fish bones of a sound. Gzzzzzzzz. Vzzzzzzzzz. Shvzzzzzzzzzz. Every FM sound sounds like every other FM sound. FM trumpet sounds like FM tines sounds like FM octapad. Fshzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Brzzzzzzzzzz. Kszzzzzzzz. Thin little crispy cold fish bones. (In honor of the Material Girl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Don Solaris Posted August 29, 2011 Members Share Posted August 29, 2011 {censored} FM synthesis and its crispy little fish bones of a sound. Gzzzzzzzz. Vzzzzzzzzz. Shvzzzzzzzzzz. LOL! I get your point... ...but who's for FM trumpets and FM tines in 2011? Explore the engine, not the preset buttons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Iamthesky Posted August 30, 2011 Members Share Posted August 30, 2011 Explore the engine, not the preset buttons. Words of wisdom for any synthesis, whether FM, subtractive, or additive. My experience with presets is that maybe 2% of them don't suck, and usually those need tweaking too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chevybusa Posted September 4, 2011 Members Share Posted September 4, 2011 FM synthesis can be extremely cool and tons of fun and extremely useful, however it does require a lot of learning to really get the most out of. This is especially true of NI's FM8, my fav FM synth. The possiblities of what it can do are extreme, to the say the least, an insane amount of stuff can be done with it, however it took me several reads of the manual to even BEGIN to really get a grasp of it, and I know I've really only scratched the surface, I know it'll be years before I even "begin" to master it. Also, even though it's a hybrid FM matrix/sampling synth, LinPlug's Octpus can also be very cool and in my opinion has a lot to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Karma1 Posted September 9, 2011 Members Share Posted September 9, 2011 I've had a Yamaha FS1R synth module for years, and as much as I enjoy programming my Korg and Roland synths, this thing is a bear to edit. What others have said about the learning curve of FM synthesis is definitely true, although I know that this thing is capable of some truly amazing and unique sounds. I keep thinking that one day I'll get serious and really get into it, but that day hasn't happened yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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