Members the stranger Posted September 17, 2011 Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 I'm tired of having that "soggy noodle" effect on my snare drum tracks. How can I get that "perfect snare drum sound"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted September 17, 2011 Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 Recording a drummer, or using sound libraries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted September 17, 2011 Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 i kind if like it when korn used a shotgun sample for the snare, or did they? or do i? or did we? i miss wewus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the stranger Posted September 17, 2011 Author Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 Recording a drummer, or using sound libraries? Recording. I actually deleted the "soggy snare noodles" folder from my sound library so I wouldn't accidentally use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted September 17, 2011 Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 Most important is the tuning of the drums, so it blends with the particular song/composition, and a very good ambience, room with a good portion of early reflections. Doesn't matter if the room is small or big. Recording in a very dry room will never have great sound. So when the recorded drums have a full and well rounded sound with ambience, you can add artificial reverberation and sculpture the sound further as you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted September 17, 2011 Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 What do you consider a "perfect snare drum sound"? Examples? A great drummer with a good well-tuned snare in a good room seems to help. I've done a variety of techniques, including using an LDC in fig-8 (null at the tom and high-hat) on the side of the drum, aiming an LDC or 421 at the bottom of the snare (I did this a few months ago to emulate the Sunset Studio sound of The Doors, using three mics like they did when I was recording a Doors tribute band, and it worked *great*), as well as more "traditional" methods of recording a snare. Sorta depends on what you want, y'know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members temnov Posted September 17, 2011 Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 I mix a lot of home-recorded tracks for my clients and I found out I need to use samples under the original snares more often than not. I use Drumagog 5 and SS Trigger, both are great. I think there is almost no way to create a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted September 17, 2011 Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 I care a lot more about whether the snare hits in the right place. After that, as long as it doesn't sound like an 80s record, I'm pretty good. I do have to say that I prefer drummers who know how to use their brushes. Or robots who know how to use their brushes. As the case may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BushmasterM4 Posted September 17, 2011 Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 I care a lot more about whether the snare hits in the right place. After that, as long as it doesn't sound like an 80s record, I'm pretty good. I do have to say that I prefer drummers who know how to use their brushes. Or robots who know how to use their brushes. As the case may be. What !! You dont like that big Def Leppard / Mutt Lang snare !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted September 17, 2011 Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 I've done a variety of techniques, including using an LDC in fig-8 (null at the tom and high-hat) on the side of the drum, I got this technique from Lee Flier, btw, a few years ago, and it works well. Forgot to mention that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted September 17, 2011 Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 I care a lot more about whether the snare hits in the right place. After that, as long as it doesn't sound like an 80s record, I'm pretty good. I do have to say that I prefer drummers who know how to use their brushes. Or robots who know how to use their brushes. As the case may be. And toms, for that matter. The sound of brushes (or sometimes hot rods) on toms can be magical. I love recording stuff like that. So much tone and texture that sticks don't typically bring out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CME Posted September 17, 2011 Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 Also depends on how you mix, and how it was recorded, but I prefer to get a lot of the snare attack out of the OH's. Then use the close mic to add body. So I typically use a dynamic mic aimed at the shell for that. Works well for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted September 17, 2011 Moderators Share Posted September 17, 2011 Obviously, what the perfect snare is, is a subjective thing. But given that, having your perfect snare arrive in your track can still be coming up short. Because context changes the needs of the snare's role. Having something like Addictive Drums to just play a bit with samples, what mikes, tuning, under, over, OH, room... all in the context of your track, really points out the impact and importance of choosing a snare and miking technique that will fulfill a track that doesn't exist yet. So you're setting up the session, picking drums, mikes and... how's about a listen to that demo. Or... let's check those notes of mine from pre-production rehearsals. What's a great snare sound? Context matters more than any other variable to determine just what the perfect snare drum is. That really puts perspective on some of the great 70's pop recordings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ronan Murphy Posted September 17, 2011 Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 The most important thing is to get the drums sounding great in the room. One of the biggest mistakes people making is tuning the drums one way in the room and wanting something different coming out of the speakers. If you want the snare to sound like a wet noodle, get that sound in the room. If you want the snare to be tight and crisp then get that sound in the room. Recording in a very dry room will never have great sound. There is an extremely large pool of successful producers and mixers that would not agree with this comment. Of course not everyone's definition of great is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ronan Murphy Posted September 17, 2011 Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 Also depends on how you mix, and how it was recorded, but I prefer to get a lot of the snare attack out of the OH's. Then use the close mic to add body. That is exactly how I work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members veracohr Posted September 17, 2011 Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 What kind of music and what kind of snare? I prefer an open snare sound that comes mostly from overheads, augmented when necessary by a little side-snare mic. Nothing in your face like top-head-bottom-snares close up micing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted September 17, 2011 Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 Also depends on how you mix, and how it was recorded, but I prefer to get a lot of the snare attack out of the OH's. Then use the close mic to add body. So I typically use a dynamic mic aimed at the shell for that. Works well for me. Yup. In my opinion, much of the attack and tone and character of the drums, including the snare, toms, etc., are from the OHs. I basically use close mics to augment the sound of the OHs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted September 17, 2011 Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 What !! You dont like that big Def Leppard / Mutt Lang snare !!!!! Surprise! heh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted September 17, 2011 Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 This was a bit of a revelation to me. When I started out, I would puzzle over how you were 'supposed' to get the then-typically desirable kick sounds. Wood beaters. Silver dollars taped onto the skin under the beater. Radical EQ settings to accentuate attack. Taped up heads. Etc. Then, one day, we were tracking a group with one of the best drummers in our extended circle and I realized, this guy sounds great in the room. His kit is properly adjusted, his heads tuned; nothing squeaks. Not surprisingly, he was also a monster player, steady but sensitive to dynamics, stunning time. And my teacher at the time turns to us and says: there it is, ladies and gentlemen -- the way to get a great drum sound -- a great drummer on a great kit in a great room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the stranger Posted September 17, 2011 Author Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 I've actually been playing with brushes more than sticks lately. All that jazz warped my brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted September 18, 2011 Moderators Share Posted September 18, 2011 Surprise!And my teacher at the time turns to us and says: there it is, ladies and gentlemen -- the way to get a great drum sound -- a great drummer on a great kit in a great room. Yeah, totally. But... sometimes the drummer doesn't, at first, get the context of the tune. I've had great sounding and playing drummers get the wrong sound. This is where the more experienced, with the intent of the song, coach comes in handy. Great drummers also respond well to: It's kinda a disco/dead and tight meets an open playing and free jazz jam thing, like 70's jazz/rock. Or... a country brushes in the room cross Ringo play the jangly pop song thing. Help the expert exert his expertise. So, yeah... get the sound in the room, but help the guy in the room know what the sound could and maybe should be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted September 18, 2011 Members Share Posted September 18, 2011 Well. Assuming you do have a decent drum sound in the room (and that includes a drumhead that's not from the Clinton administration), a halfway decent room, and a good drummer... the biggest cause of "wet noodle" snare sounds are 1) a mic or (more often) a preamp that can't handle the SPLs, and 2) miking too close, especially if #1 is true. Make sure you have a pre with plenty of headroom, because recording a snare is one of the most taxing things you can do to a mic or pre. Using an SM57 on snare, unless you have a very high quality pre, is also a leading cause of wet noodles. The main reason so many people use a 57 on snare is because 1) it rejects bleed from the hi hat pretty well, and 2) if the drummer whacks it, it's no great loss. But commercial studios of course have really good preamps, which you really need with a 57, and they also tend to do a lot of processing after the fact to make the snare sound decent. Bottom line, I'm not a fan of the 57 on snare. Like Ken says, I use an LDC (in my case, an AKG414 which is my favorite snare mic) in figure 8, unless the room really sucks, and then it's in cardioid. Point the nulls at the rack tom and hat, as Ken mentions. The other important thing is to move the mic around while you listen, until you find the sweet spot, which might be pointed at an angle at the top head or it might be more off the side of the shell, and don't be afraid to move it pretty far away either. Otherwise you're dealing not only with higher SPLs but bass proximity, which often leads to wet noodles. As others have also mentioned, getting most of your sound from your overheads and/or room mics rather than the close mic is preferable, although this may not be possible if you're in a small or otherwise crappy sounding room. So there you have it. But do make sure it sounds good in the room before you go putting a mic anywhere. And don't put blankets around it, or foam all over the walls or any of that lame stuff. Also, recording on carpet sucks, unless it's a thin piece of rug placed on the floor so the drums won't move around. Carpet with padding and all that? Bleh. I've actually put down pieces of plywood over a carpeted room just to get some reflections off the floor, which gives the snare a nice pop as opposed to dull carpet sound. Reflective floor and dead ceiling is the way to go if possible. Good luck with your noodle elimination! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members roomjello Posted September 18, 2011 Members Share Posted September 18, 2011 I find as a recordist you are at the mercy of these in this order.-player-snare/tuning-roomThen you have some control at the micing stage but not much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted September 18, 2011 Members Share Posted September 18, 2011 I'm tired of having that "soggy noodle" effect on my snare drum tracks. How can I get that "perfect snare drum sound"? I have to admit, I used to think having a real drummer was the best way to go but sampling has gotten so darn good, I`ve been using them to either enhance or replace real drums. I have EZ Drummer and Nashville drums from Toontracks. Really is easy to use, (hence the name) and sounds great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rasputin1963 Posted September 18, 2011 Members Share Posted September 18, 2011 Any sound may serve as a snare backbeat. Viz: [video=youtube;W25_jgiY51I] My favorite snare was a Soundfont I found of a Motown-like snare-hit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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