Kickstarter

[MikeRivers]

Has anyone here used Kickstarter to raise money for a project? Or are you all independently wealthy?

 

Kickstarter is an on-line system for pledging money toward a specific (project and dollar) goal. You sign up and pledge the amount you're willing to offer, and if the dollar goal is reached by the specified date, your credit card gets charged. If there isn't enough money in the pledge basked by the goal date, then your pledge goes away.

 

I hadn't heard of it until an old friend sent out an e-mail about a piece she had written and was looking to record it (in a real studio, for real money). She's trying this system to collect donations toward the project. Back in the 70s, I donated money to friends toward their record projects but nobody's asked in a long time, I guess because nearly everyone is doing their own recording at home these days.

 

My friend with the Kickstarter project is old school (only a couple of years younger than I am) and has worked in professional studios throughout her career. She has a home studio of course, but uses that for writing, arranging, and demos but when it comes down to recording for real, wants to let someone else worry about the technology so she can concentrate on the music. Smart lady.

 

In case you're curious as to what kind of friends I have, here's a link to her Pocket Mass project.

 

I'm just curious if anyone else here has used it, or if it sounds interesting enough to give it a whirl for a project of yours? Or if it sounds like a scam (you can leave out comments about "privacy" - you know you don't have any anyway). They don't seem to be too restrictive in the kind of project you can Kickstart. There are some music projects, some art projects, a cook book, games, sculpture.

 

I wonder if I could use it to get contributions toward writing product reviews. If I had a dollar for every download of, say, my VRM Box review (believe it or not that's the most downloaded file on my web page), why, I could buy a pretty nice dinner.

[WRGKMC]

Sounds like a fancy tin cup scam to me. I would beware of the tax man. Only certain charitable organizations can collect money like that

and not be nailed to the wall by the tax codes, and they're fighting hard now to shut them down too. I did wiki the organization and they

seem to charge a 5% fee and 5% of the total amount. Thats much better than most charity organizations charge. I just dont get the reason

for a return of funds. Come up a dollar short and it all goes back.

 

This has nothing to do with what you posted nor that site which I know nothing about,

but when it comes to charity, My father brough me up old school when it comes to having some pride.

I trust no charity organizations including many churches that are run more like a modern business these days.

 

My philosophy is, If someone needs to beg for money, they shouldnt try to sanitize their shame by sticking an organization in front of it.

Most of those organizations are bottom feeders that suck off the good will of others.

 

There are those truely deserving who wouldnt survive without charity of course and I have no problem helping those and do, in fact my wife spends

a good deal of our paychecks on he church gigs. The rest who are fully competant and just too lazy to work for a living and suck off charities?

--- well they fall into what I consider con artists and bums in my book. Theres nothing in life thats free and if you dont give back more

than what you take from society, you're pretty much a worthless individual. It doesnt have to be money, it may be good deeds, experteese, or any variety

of ways but you do need to give back as much or more to get to keep a positive balance in life. I do this at work as well. i put in a little extra time and work

so no man can play a guilt trip on me and make me feel like I'm not doing enough.

 

Again, this has nothing to do with your inquiry Mike, its just some common sence stuff I stick by because I am involved in alot of charity work including

playing alot of gigs to raise money for good causes run by good honest people I know who put every dime to good use.

[Jeff da Weasel]

Yes, I know MANY people who've used Kickstarter. Personally, I have weird feelings about using it for myself. The long story short is that I feel there are two legitimate purposes for fundraising efforts: 1) charitable/humanitarian and 2) businesses with ROI for investors.

 

Having other people pay, for instance, for my next recording sessions would be nice, right? The problem is that I can't in good conscience offer them anything in return except a CD and a "thank you". But Kickstarter is absolutely an accepted way of raising funds, and under the right circumstances I'd absolutely try it out.

[UstadKhanAli]

Kickstarter is a legitimate website. And I would agree with Weasel about the two legitimate purposes for fundraising.

[UstadKhanAli]

Another "legitimate" reason might be doing some sort of project - say, documenting the last of a tribe whose language is dying out through video or creating a dictionary. Or documenting the people of a small island which is going to eventually be destroyed by rising ocean water by making a documentary film that seeks to draw attention to their plight. While these aren't *directly* humanitarian or charitable, they still sort of fall under that umbrella and are important cultural contributions that many might feel are good reasons to open the wallet for.

[blue2blue]

Has anyone here used Kickstarter to raise money for a project? Or are you all independently wealthy? Kickstarter is an on-line system for pledging money toward a specific (project and dollar) goal. You sign up and pledge the amount you're willing to offer, and if the dollar goal is reached by the specified date, your credit card gets charged. If there isn't enough money in the pledge basked by the goal date, then your pledge goes away. I hadn't heard of it until an old friend sent out an e-mail about a piece she had written and was looking to record it (in a real studio, for real money). She's trying this system to collect donations toward the project. Back in the 70s, I donated money to friends toward their record projects but nobody's asked in a long time, I guess because nearly everyone is doing their own recording at home these days. My friend with the Kickstarter project is old school (only a couple of years younger than I am) and has worked in professional studios throughout her career. She has a home studio of course, but uses that for writing, arranging, and demos but when it comes down to recording for real, wants to let someone else worry about the technology so she can concentrate on the music. Smart lady. In case you're curious as to what kind of friends I have, here's a link to her Pocket Mass project. I'm just curious if anyone else here has used it, or if it sounds interesting enough to give it a whirl for a project of yours? Or if it sounds like a scam (you can leave out comments about "privacy" - you know you don't have any anyway). They don't seem to be too restrictive in the kind of project you can Kickstart. There are some music projects, some art projects, a cook book, games, sculpture. I wonder if I could use it to get contributions toward writing product reviews. If I had a dollar for every download of, say, my VRM Box review (believe it or not that's the most downloaded file on my web page), why, I could buy a pretty nice dinner.

One of my 3DW buddies used it to fund his band's latest album, which they wanted to release as both CD and vinyl, along with the digital stores and subscription sites.

 

They promised contributors a number of goodies (which seems crucial to roping them in, I should think). They made their goal, which is pretty cool, as their audience is mostly 20-something.

[UstadKhanAli]

Now, of course, this is all my opinion. And who the hell am I anyway? If you think I'm logical, then great, if not, well, do bear in mind that I'm not telling anyone what to do...it's all my opinion! But anyway, I personally wouldn't feel compelled to contribute to someone who wants to make an album in a studio. That just doesn't get me to open up my wallet, sorry.

 

Now, on the other hand, if let's say, a producer has a page on kickstarter that says, "Hey, I'm doing a recording project that brings attention to the amazing talent that the homeless have on the streets of Gary, Indiana," I might be more compelled to say, "Okay, that seems interesting and seems legitimately worthy of asking for money instead of simply hitting people up for money." A project like that seems more compelling than someone who simply wants to record. Well, hell, I simply want to record too!!! So I went out and bought a $10 microphone and other crappy recording equipment so I could! And then when I could afford better, than I went out and bought slightly less crappy equipment!!

 

Again, just my opinion. You may feel differently, and clearly, some on Kickstarter do.

[blue2blue]

Mike, I see your friend worked with my main man (when I was right at the end of grammar school), Chubby Checker. Top props!

 

(She also worked with a bunch of other very fine artists, of course, but... Chubby Checker! Now there is a legend. Let's twist again...)

[AMZ-FX]

Artists with an established following can raise a lot of money with Kickstarter:

 

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/555488012/nataly-dawns-first-solo-album/

 

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/julianunes/julia-nunes-would-be-nothing-without-me

 

regards, Jack

[MikeRivers]

OK, I see this is getting into the realm of a charity discussion. It's true, that someone who has a worthwhile recording project, whether it's of his own music or music of a dying tribe where he has to bring in portable equipment by pack mule (and then walk 2 miles, uphill, both ways) doesn't need charity (or a grant), he needs a loan. If the project is really worth while, it will eventually recover costs and maybe even make a profit after repaying the investors.

 

But you have to start somewhere, and traditionally, musicians aren't good business people. These days you can't go to a bank and ask for a $6,000 loan to record a CD no matter how successful an artist you are. You can, however, if you're a sufficiently successful artist of the right type, go to a record company and ask for an advance. If this was the only way recordings got made (like it was before about 1970) then there would be fewer recordings and less access to non-mainstream music. People argue this point around here all the time, justifying their own investment in money, time and energy to make their own recordings.

 

As I see this Kictstarter thing (or any other program where you don't expect much of a return on your investment) is that you're supporting the arts. You (the donor) aren't in it for a profit, you're doing it because you want to see that project completed. Blue2 has a good point about tax liability. I expect that those who receive cash through programs like Kickstarter should report this as income, and an honest musician would. I would also not expect, as a donor, to be able, for tax purposes, to deduct the donation from my income as charity, because it isn't a recognized charity or charitable institution.

[BATCAT]

I don't understand how Kickstarter is about "donating" or charity. It's simply allowing people to fund music or film or journalism or whatever that is creating the content they want to see, and taking the studio/label/etc out of the loop.

 

[MikeRivers]

 

Mike, I see your friend worked with my main man (when I was right at the end of grammar school), Chubby Checker. Top props!

 

 

Well, actually she sang backup on a record or two. In her folksinger days, she made a couple of albums on Capitol, and when a label like that needs backup singers, they go to their stable of artists. Once she told me she recorded a song under a name which I recognized but can't remember any more. I said "What? That was you on all of those records?" No, that was the name that Capitol used for the folky chick singer when it was time to put out that kind of a record. There were a few artists with similar style that went under that name.

 

Did you check out her video blog page? I could imagine Miles Davis playing that song about making cucumber soup. She was one of the hottest guitarists on the folk scene in the 60s and that's really her playing that rag on the guitar. But like with most people, real life got in the way, and music just became a serious hobby.

 

She's had some good technical help along the way, too, both audio and guitar-wise. She was close friends with Dick Rosmini, one of the finest guitarists in the folky realm, a good audio engineer, and a great photographer, too. Dick was pretty much responsible for TASCAM starting the home studio craze. But that's another department.

[MikeRivers]

 

I don't understand how Kickstarter is about "donating" or charity. It's simply allowing people to fund music or film or journalism or whatever that is creating the content they want to see,

 

 

That's how I see it. It's not an investment where you expect more money back than what you put in, it's an investment in keeping something alive. When you give enough money, you're called a "patron." This is how most symphony orchestras keep going.

 

For fifty bucks, however, you get a thank you note, a copy of the CD, and a T shirt. Oh, and a good feeling that you've helped someone see an artistic vision through to completion.

 

Of course the request for donations has to start somewhere, and this is (in this case) a list of personal friends. But if you do live shows and have collected a mailing list from your audiences (and who doesn't, nowadays?) those are people who might donate toward the next release who aren't necessarily friends, just fans.

[UstadKhanAli]

I don't understand how Kickstarter is about "donating" or charity. It's simply allowing people to fund music or film or journalism or whatever that is creating the content they want to see, and taking the studio/label/etc out of the loop.

 

No one's saying it's about donating or charity. You can start any project you want. It's just that the stuff we suggested are things that people often respond to quite well on Kickstarter.

[Ernest Buckley]

A band who I will not name asked for donations around 2 years ago. I went to one of their gigs here in the city, good band... solid tunes, strong vocals, good all around rock sound... however, I was turned off when I got an email asking for my $$$ to help them fund their recording project. Then they go on to say, if they raise $20,000, they can hire this unnamed producer whom the band loves and respects. I tried to respond to the email but it was one of those one way exchanges.

 

Here I am working my tail off paying a mortgage, raising kids, paying my own way in the studio and with musicians and these guys are asking me to pay for their next record?!

 

I`m with Jeff when it comes to fundraising.

 

For any self indulgent activities and I include recording my tunes in that category, it should be about me paying my own way. Just my $.02

[WRGKMC]

It may not seem like charity to some but it is.

 

Those who give the money arent gauranteed anything in return, no profit, no product.

Those who get the money, get the money for nothing. Bo services or products rendered to the ones donating.

And they dont have to return the money with interest like any loan would require.

 

To me its a charity pure and simple and no amount of intelectual sanitizing of what it is will change that.

 

I'm not saying it couldnt be used in very good and important ways.

It could be used for very noble projects that benifit mankind,

But lets not blind ourselves to what it is. Its simply a tin cup.

If you want to have pencils in the cup in the form of a CD or T Shirt, fine, but those dont usually equal the

value of the donation.

[MikeRivers]

Man, what a bunch of heartless buggers! I'll bet any of you would accept $6,000 from a friend or stranger to pay for your next music project.

 

As to not getting anything in return, well you may not be getting retail value but (in my friend's case) for $50, you get a CD and a T shirt. What's that worth? Maybe $25?

 

When I give money to my public radio station, I don't consider it a charity (well, OK, I do - I deduct it from my income tax because I can), I consider it payment for a service that I could get for free as long as it can continue to operate, but what I'm doing with my donation is helping it to continue. By contributing more than the retail price of one CD to a project, I'm helping a project that I consider worth while exist that might not otherwise come to fruition.

 

Now admittedly, my musical bias comes in here. I wouldn't donate to just any record project, particularly to one for a record that I wouldn't ordinarily buy. But for all the different kinds of music out there, there's bound to be enough people to get anything off the ground if only they knew how.

 

Oh, and speaking of charity, there's an article in today's Washington Post about that Steve Jobs has no public record of charitable contributions.

[WRGKMC]

Noones being heartless from what I've read, in fact they've been quite open minded of how it can be used.

I dont think there needs to be any sugar coating added. That stuff "is" the sales pitch people who use the service

use to get donations.

[UstadKhanAli]

It's not heartless. I'm just saying what I would likely to give money to, and what have been often successful fundraising ventures, Mike.

[Lee Flier]

It may not seem like charity to some but it is. Those who give the money arent gauranteed anything in return, no profit, no product. Those who get the money, get the money for nothing. Bo services or products rendered to the ones donating. And they dont have to return the money with interest like any loan would require.

 

Actually that really isn't the way Kickstarter works. You have to have a specific amount that you need to raise, and no one has to pay their pledges if you don't meet the goal. You have to break down what the money will be used for. And most people do offer something in return for the donation. I donated a little money to fund a documentary film that I wanted to see finished, for instance, and I get a copy of the DVD now that it's done and a few other goodies.

 

It is not a typical loan or investment, but it's not really a charity either, unless the project is specifically for a charitable cause.

 

As for whether it's "self indulgent" to ask for money to pay for a band's CD, that really depends on the band's fan base. If they'd like to hear an indie artist they really like record an album that sounds better than what they could do in their basement on a limited budget, then great. Typically when bands do this, they offer a finished CD in return (sometimes along with other perks if the fan contributes a lot of money). If somebody kicks in $20 and gets a good sounding CD of a band they like out of it, what's the problem? If it's not something they care about, they just don't contribute, and if the band can't raise enough money then nobody pays. Maybe the artist is being self indulgent if they think they have enough fans to fund their CD and they really don't, but if they do, then it's a win-win.

[Jeff da Weasel]

 

If somebody kicks in $20 and gets a good sounding CD of a band they like out of it, what's the problem?

 

 

It's not a problem at all. I have a personal philosophical preference to see coordinated fundraising efforts geared toward situations where the participants have a true dire need for the funds. I have recently contributed to two people's medical procedures -- one for brain tumor surgery and one for cancer treatment. I've also spent a good deal of time this year doing benefit shows for the American Cancer Society and for feeding African children.

 

My personal feeling is that coordinated fundraising should be prioritized for circumstances like those. The more people get hit up for various things, the less likely they'll be willing or able to contribute to things that are literally life-or-death causes. But as has been mentioned, there's a long history of patronage to the arts, and I'm not about to tell people how to spend their money.

 

So, to reiterate: I think Kickstarter is great. It's just not for me.

[BATCAT]

As for whether it's "self indulgent" to ask for money to pay for a band's CD, that really depends on the band's fan base. If they'd like to hear an indie artist they really like record an album that sounds better than what they could do in their basement on a limited budget, then great. Typically when bands do this, they offer a finished CD in return (sometimes along with other perks if the fan contributes a lot of money). If somebody kicks in $20 and gets a good sounding CD of a band they like out of it, what's the problem? If it's not something they care about, they just don't contribute, and if the band can't raise enough money then nobody pays. Maybe the artist is being self indulgent if they think they have enough fans to fund their CD and they really don't, but if they do, then it's a win-win.

 

Considering how we have all this talk here about how the "old system" is broken, I'm suprised how many people don't get it. The idea behind "crowdfunding" is that the existing channels (actual record labels) are not providing the content that a sizable number of people want. This is a way to directly fund the music (books, movies) people want to see; they fund it, and in return a)it get made and b)they get the product

 

I don't know how to explain more clearly that it isn't a "tin cup". If you're not interested in the project, don't fund it.

[scarecrowbob]

It isn't any different that funding a symphony orchestra or a library or an NPR station. I suppose that we could do away with those until we've got universal healthcare, but in the mean time... there are a lot of things that are public goods we might want to support even if they fall between dire necessity and money-making ventures.

 

I worked on a kickstarter funded feature, and we had no problem raising 5k, of which the entirety is going to be used for promo. There were enough folks who wanted to see a film get made by that group of people.

 

People like to be patrons of the arts and support art, and KS is a reasonable way to do that; IMO it's no different than being a member of NPR.

[UstadKhanAli]

Yup.

[TieDyedDevil]

 

People like to be patrons of the arts and support art, and KS is a reasonable way to do that.

 

 

This. ^^^

 

How being a patron of the arts equates to giving money to beggars eludes me...