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the Apple Paradigm


techristian

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With the passing of Steve Jobs, I thought this a good time to start this thread.

 

Note: This IS NOT TO START AN ARGUING THREAD ABOUT APPLE VS WINDOWS but rather to acknowledge the things that attract the Apple or Windows users such as work flow, personality, etc.

 

So what is the Apple Paradigm? I believe it has to do with the way we are each hard wired. Some of us like to get quickly from A to B and others like to learn about the technology, build, design or whatever while getting from A to B. For musicians this means that the Apple Type will want to get from a musical idea as quickly as possible to the finished product. This is a good thing for most musicians. However the higher cost of Apple hardware and software may force some musicians to try the other paradigm.

 

I will admit. The Apple musician may be more musically productive, not worrying about installing windows, building their own system, wattage, cooling, heat dissipation, tweaking etc.

 

As to myself, I still have a few old Macs lying around, but I never could wrap my head around the "Finder" or single button mouse. Even today , when I walk into a Mac store and play with the machines there, still find them alien to me.

 

I started back in a day when you HAD TO program your own applications if you wanted to do any serious work with a computer. The Radio Shack TRS80 Model 1 from 1979 was a little more than glorified video game with the software that it came with. As the son of an Electrical Technician I was destined to program it. I HAD TO write 2 musical applications before I could begin to RECORD my first music , first with the TRS80 and then with the C64 ! Somehow I got lost in the technology and it would be another 20 years later before I released my first CD and music videos!

 

So, I believe this is possibly the thing that separates the 2 camps. With us programmer types, we would rather design toys and make music with our inventions and the Apple group would rather get to the business at hand, making music, music videos. However, music created by the programmer type , may have a richness and depth of its own.

 

Standard music notation takes into consideration, pitch, time, and amplitude, but a musician schooled in electronics and synthesis may want to add other things to the pallet such as timbre and modulation. Without these components, techno music would be lifeless.

 

to be continued..............

 

Dan

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I used to think there was a different paradigm... after using a Mac for years, I took a job 15 years ago in a corporate setting. Even though I was doing audio, I had to go PC. Within a week the difference disappeared.

 

I started building PC's for my home audio work. Then two years I got an iMac for home and a Mac Pro for work. They're great. But, for me, the paradigm is invisible. The Macs opperate without a bump. The PCs interface with corporate more readily adn are cheaper. Other than that, they're saws and hammers.

 

Of course, I'm sure, for others that is not the case.

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I'm not just trying to be "polite" here, but to me, Macs and PCs both have advantages and disadvantages, and I don't see one as being amazingly better than the other. And I'm one of those people that you are labeling as the "let's just start creating right NOW" sorts. I don't want to tinker...I want to use the computer and create music, websites, CDs, photos, whatever.

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Job's strength was in seeing current technologies and foreseeing their value. The mouse. The "window" and "desktop" paradigms. WYSIWYG. The touchscreen. Phone apps. Downloadable and transportable digital music.

 

He didn't invent any of it, but he saw how it enabled. He took that vision, and brought it to everybody.

 

While he didn't necessarily invent, he refined and popularized. All based on his particular vision.

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Personally (and that's all it is - personally) Apple != Mac or "iLife"

I was and am a big fan of the ii series - a lot of peole don't remember that it didn't fully EOL til 92! but the development got cut, which I think was a shame - it was a great mix of the "appliance" and "raw tool / tech toy" philosophies

 

To me, that will always be a major part of Apple and I think it had some more of the Woz aesthetic built in. It came with schematics and the top clicked on with this sort of giant metal velcro so you could open it without tools

 

We used to hotrod the {censored} out of them.

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Job's strength was in seeing current technologies and foreseeing their value. The mouse. The "window" and "desktop" paradigms. WYSIWYG. The touchscreen. Phone apps. Downloadable and transportable digital music.


He didn't invent any of it, but he saw how it enabled. He took
that
vision, and brought it to everybody.


While he didn't necessarily invent, he refined and popularized. All based on his particular vision.

 

 

Agreed. He knew what people wanted...sometimes, even if they didn't know they wanted it at the time. The iPad would be a perfect example of this. This was utterly ridiculed. Then they sold like hotcakes. Even the iPhone was ridiculed, with those who were familiar with technology in Japan and elsewhere in Asia saying, "Oh, well, they have a lot of features like this already!" That might be true, but he put it together more elegantly, and with the whole iTunes and apps store behind him, really put it together in a glorious way.

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He didn't invent any of it, but he saw how it enabled. He took
that
vision, and brought it to everybody.


While he didn't necessarily invent, he refined and popularized. All based on his particular vision.

 

 

And this is part of the Apple paradigm as I see it. Jobs , himself, was a part of that paradigm....not having to "touch the hardware directly" but instead recognising what had to be done and taking the shortest path there, whether he came up with the idea and paid others to code it or whether he bought good ideas. These are the same attributes of all great venture capitalists,....to recognise opportunity and seize it.

 

Dan

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I'm not just trying to be "polite" here, but to me, Macs and PCs both have advantages and disadvantages, and I don't see one as being amazingly better than the other. And I'm one of those people that you are labeling as the "let's just start creating right NOW" sorts. I don't want to tinker...I want to use the computer and create music, websites, CDs, photos, whatever.

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you have an ancient mac, a G5 that a friend of yours gave you? For that generation of tech, what you're saying is certainly fair, and it's a handy internet truce.

 

But based on the last few years during which Apple killed every other technology company on the planet, I honestly don't know anyone in real life, or high up in tech, who doesn't feel macs are superior to PC's.

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Put two people from age 6 - 106 years who have never used a computer in a room with a PC and an Apple. Tell them to use both machines and that both machines are the same price. My gut tells me most people, more than 9 out of 10 are going to pick the Apple.

 

I used PCs for 12 years, then I decided to bite the bullet and spend twice as much on an Apple. It was no comparison.

 

I will be blunt and I`m not politically correct like Ken and Craig and most of you, the truth is, most people do not want to spend the $$$ on an Apple even though its a superior machine.

 

Yes, I just threw mud.

 

The problem with paradigms is that they are limiting. We get unconsciously caught up in them, we become bias, we become blind.

 

I have no $$$ invested in Apple, I`m just a user. I don`t write reviews for products and I don`t want to. I don`t have any professional audio relationships that I must be careful not to destroy so you won`t hear me say that they both excel in certain things.

 

The PC (which I use at work) does what it has to do but its rough around the edges and its not pretty. The Apple excels and its beautiful. You almost forget you`re working with a machine.

 

Again, if both machines were asking the same price, Apple would destroy the competition.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you have an ancient mac, a G5 that a friend of yours gave you? For that generation of tech, what you're saying is certainly fair, and it's a handy internet truce.


But based on the last few years during which Apple killed every other technology company on the planet, I honestly don't know anyone in real life, or high up in tech, who doesn't feel macs are superior to PC's.

 

 

I have a Mac Pro 1,1 and a new iMac now, so I am no longer using the G5, but you remembered correctly.

 

I use Macs because I like their interface. I like the way I interact with the computer more. But I don't know that I would say that it is definitively *better* than a PC overall. It seems to me that it's a real give and take. My girlfriend and the guy in my band feel the same way as well. PCs do a lot of things really well.

 

My main reasons for using a Mac are these:

1. I like interacting with them more in general and find the interface more elegant

2. They very rarely get viruses from the internet

3. I'm used to working on one because I've been working on one since 2000. I bailed on PC for studio work because of Windows 95.

 

The drawbacks of using a Mac exclusively would be this:

1. There are a LOT more applications, software, etc. available on a PC. Since I've begun doing most of my work at home on a Mac, I've especially noticed this. There are so many more applications, software, etc. for doing websites, business, Javascript, plugins for Pro Tools, etc., and that is in many ways much more flexible.

2. In the past, I've found that hardware components on a Mac, particularly power supplies and firewire, seem to fail quicker than on PCs. Furthermore, I can't seem to go to Frys and replace things as easily when they do fail.

3. Macs can be expensive, particularly for laptops and towers (although admittedly not so much for iMacs or Mac Minis, in my opinion, where I feel you're getting your money's worth). I purchased a Mac Pro 1,1 which is about four years old for this reason - a new one is just too damn expensive.

 

Stability: In my own experience, I have not found one to be particularly more stable than the other....*until* you put one on the internet. The Mac seems to keep going, whereas my PCs sludge after a while despite my best attempts with firewalls, anti-virus software, and so forth.

 

Now, you can see what I personally favor: a Mac. I like it better. But I personally cannot say with any honesty that it's definitively *better* overall. I know a lot of people say that, but I'm not completely convinced.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

And no, I'm not being politically correct. I like Macs better. I just cannot say that they're definitively *better* overall. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with political correctness. I just call it like I see it.

 

An iPad, on the other hand....that's so much {censored}ing better than any other tablet or similar device I've seen that it's ridiculous.

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As I said from the beginning of this thread, I DON'T WANT THIS TO BE AN APPLE VS WINDOWS DISCUSSION, because some of you are WAY TOO passionate about your machine. I already sense a heated debate brewing. For me, they are both machines, yes the Mac LOOKS good, costs more, but if you have the money and don't want to worry about the nuts and bolts, this may be the best choice for you.

 

I'm more interested in HOW the 2 GROUPS differ in their work patterns. As I said, in my case, lately I'm getting very little music composed, but lots of fun along the way mastering the technology.

 

Ok here is what my approach has been like the past 20 years. See how it compares with your own work habits.

 

To release the first CD , I was liberated from software because ,by 1989 , I was using Amiga music software for the midi tracks, (I came to Intel 286 type via Amiga Sidecar shortly thereafter) but the need to tweak was still there. So what did I tweak? I recorded and edited 100 or more sounds. How many actually made it to the CD ? Only 6-12. I use mostly canned sounds or create layers/stacks of sounds now.

 

Then I had to learn video editing. I used Ulead Media Studio Pro. The first copy came free with my Matrox Mystique. I would spend another $600 on the next 2 updates. Corel took over and left me holding the bag 2 years ago with no HD 1080 updates. They want me to buy another FULL VERSION for $400. I'll be moving over to Adobe for my next video software investment.

 

So question #1 did Apple Mac software ever leave you "holding the bag" without updates to the next Mac ?

 

So the first CD is produced and then I make 2 videos, with over 100 hours of microediting for each one. With video, I never designed any software tools or effects. I JUST USED IT.....and WAITED a long time for processing.

 

So I got very busy at my day job and other things, and by 1999 the CD and first video was released on the web. In 2000, while still working my day job, my next video was released.

 

So what have I been doing the past 10 years? Well I got back into real acoustic drumming and drums in a big way and so I have been mostly putting together "quick and dirty drum" videos for the web. Media Studio Pro no longer works on any of my newer systems. Corel talked me into a consumer level video editor called "Video Studio" but it is a piece of c!@# for serious video editing.

 

I also have been using new music tools for the 2nd CD that I was working on. First I worked with Sonar and now I do all of my music and drum tracks with Cubase. Cubase can be tricky to set up with certain sound cards or Firewire but it is worth every penny.

 

As time goes on, I am getting more and more into music, and less and less into designing software or sounds. This is , in part, because the new program languages are getting more and more foreign to me.....and because the music tools are FAST , GOOD and so much fun. (once you get the systems set up).

So I have been retired ,from my day gig, almost 2 years and should have "conquered the world" by now, but I just laid my last ceramic tile in my basement yesterday (I laid over 900 sq feet in the past 2 summers) I threw out a TON OF GARBAGE and am getting ready to have a "walk in" recording / teaching studio.

 

I will also be getting back into music in a big way. First I plan on finishing at least 1 new music video for my newest CD. But........

 

I also want to see if I can program the Arduino.... so there is still that need to design. But trust me, if one of my projects takes off, that will be the one that I RUN with.

 

So now do you get an idea of what I'm looking for?

 

#2 What are your work habits like?

 

#3 How does your Mac ,Windows or BOTH fit into your production style?

 

#4 Do you make your own sounds , or use "canned" sounds?

 

Dan

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#1 did Apple Mac software ever leave you "holding the bag" without updates to the next Mac ?

I don't recall this occurring.

 

#2 What are your work habits like?

I like to just get down to creating. I don't like to tinker. I like things that facilitate creativity, not impede it. I record using microphones mostly as opposed to using samples, looping, using drum machines, virtual instruments, etc., although I do all of the above. I don't like tinkering, updating, installing, reinstalling, testing, etc. I want something that works. I want to install it, not have it sludge, and keep on working. I want to build a rapport with what I've got. If I don't use something, I like to uninstall it.

 

#3 How does your Mac ,Windows or BOTH fit into your production style?

The Mac has a nice interface and is easy to use, but as I said, I'm comfortable on both and could easily use a good well-built rock-solid PC to record audio, as I think they are both viable options. However, because I like the interface of a Mac more and it isn't as susceptible to viruses when going online, I've chosen Mac for now.

 

#4 Do you make your own sounds , or use "canned" sounds?

Almost always creating my own sounds. I don't like my music to sound like everyone else's. I use a lot of "real" instruments - analog keyboards mostly, guitars, drums, basses, Javanese gamelan instruments, percussion, singing, etc. I also like to create interesting effects.

 

~~~~~

 

I disagree that I am passionate about the computer I work on. Actually, it's just the opposite. I don't give a {censored} what I use; I only care that it works correctly and efficiently. I've actually explored the possibility of stand-alone recording units several times because I basically want something in which I just show up, flick the machine on, and start creating.

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The absolute, scientific explanation is that they typical PC is bundled with tons of junk software that most people will never use, which causes problems in the long run with underutilized HD space and driver conflicts. Macs come as barebones computers and thus have fewer problems as a result of that fact alone. All of the PCs I've owned since the late '90s were barebones and I haven't had the same problems most people bitch and whine about. So there you go, folks.

 

I think Macs are great computers but I could do without the snobbiness and elitism characteristic of most of its user base.

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In addition to what elsongs said it seems lower end (i.e. affordable to the masses) proprietary PC systems come with mostly cheap components and the hard drives are the first thing to go, I would imagine quicker, than a well built PC. I've built 3 or 4 PCs 2 of my own over the years and they've been more often than not solid (once in awhile not without problem, but then show me a Mac that is infallible, too). But that's talking self-built, where there are certain advantages that aren't inherent with a proprietary machine, and more frequent to problems.

 

I had a PowerBook in 2003 it's what I started producing my own music with. Within 2 years it was just too damn slow to be productive at all. Not Apple's fault so much, just a timing thing -- I'd gotten the last PB at the store before the new aluminum (I believe) series rolled out. I don't think the 2 systems are that different. I found little things missing in Mac I highly preferred to have in PC (mostly comparing Finder/Windows Explorer when it comes to managing files). Short of getting a 3rd party file managing program, looking back I feel like Mac OS X kind of impeded my productivity a bit. Probably the reverse for others. /shrug

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If you're going to examine the Apple paradigm these days, I think it's a mistake to focus on the Mac. Apple overtook Microsoft in net worth last year by its leaps into consumer electronics and still lags far behind in traditional personal computer operating system market share. The slow and steady inroads that Apple has made into the PC market during Jobs's second tenure came more from repositioning the Mac as the hub of its new consumer electronics devices rather than trying to best Microsoft at Microsoft's game.

 

It's going to be a long time before traditional personal computers become irrelevant, but the role they play in our lives is diminishing into one piece of the puzzle rather than the whole. The customer Apple appeals to nowadays is the one who wants the marriage of such devices to be as seamless as possible, and that's why it rolled much of its iOS into the latest version of Mac OS X.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

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#1 did Apple Mac software ever leave you "holding the bag" without updates to the next Mac ?

Nope.

 

#2 What are your work habits like?

I write the songs first away from the studio. Just a guitar, paper and pen. I`ll work out the songs structure, tempo, key after I have the lyrics, melody and progression where I want it. Things sort of drop in and out, theres really no specific order but never will I record a song if its not finished... meaning it carries itself on just a guitar and vocal.

 

Pro-production involves getting ideas down and finally settling on something I feel best presents the song. Then tracking. Lately, I`ve been hiring different people to come in and record tracks. Professional players... the budget is tight but so is my time and I would much rather spend $1000 getting the right players than another piece of gear chasing my tail. As for computers, I`m sort of like Ken. My iMac is equipped with what I need, everything else sort of gets trashed. I have a very simple set-up: Apogee Duet 2 is my interface. I use REASON for all MIDI and now audio. DP is used too but once REASON starts hosting 3rd party plugs, I`m jumping ship.

 

#3 How does your Mac ,Windows or BOTH fit into your production style?

Obviously, I`m an Apple user. As I have said in the past, the Apple is extension of myself. Its intuitive and I never feel like I`m fighting with it.

 

#4 Do you make your own sounds , or use "canned" sounds?

I use whatever I feel the song needs. I will use samples, loops and I also create my own sounds. Thanks to RECYCLE I can pretty much record whatever I want and create a sample out of it. I also love sticking a mic in front of a guitar amp so it really depends on what the song is calling for. There are no limits.

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#2 What are your work habits like?

I write the songs first away from the studio. Just a guitar, paper and pen. I`ll work out the songs structure, tempo, key after I have the lyrics, melody and progression where I want it. Things sort of drop in and out, theres really no specific order but never will I record a song if its not finished... meaning it carries itself on just a guitar and vocal.


Pro-production involves getting ideas down and finally settling on something I feel best presents the song. Then tracking. Lately, I`ve been hiring different people to come in and record tracks. Professional players... the budget is tight but so is my time and I would much rather spend $1000 getting the right players than another piece of gear chasing my tail. As for computers, I`m sort of like Ken. My iMac is equipped with what I need, everything else sort of gets trashed. I have a very simple set-up: Apogee Duet 2 is my interface. I use REASON for all MIDI and now audio. DP is used too but once REASON starts hosting 3rd party plugs, I`m jumping ship.

 

 

 

Thanks Ernest

 

I really haven't stated my style of recording. Sometimes a catchy line, slang or whatever becomes the hook of my tune. It just comes to me and if I'm smart enough to write it down then I have the beginning of a song. Many times though, I just go into the studio and start hammering on the keyboard while the midi recorder is running, layer upon layer. After 2 hours the song is 90% complete. Then it takes many more hours of editing to clean it up and add vocals , and other tracks. I cut away more than what I keep. I work mostly in Midi at first.

 

Dan

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I work on custom-build PCs from ADK Pro Audio. Life-time support. Great components. Cheaper than Mac and I love it.

 

My first computer was Mac Quadra with Sound Designer II. I deeply respect Steve Jobs. Use iPhone and iPad.

 

Still feel kind of on alert around you, Mac People. Are you dangerous in packs? No kidding, but for the most Mac users it's almost a religious duty to worship their Mac machines.

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The absolute, scientific explanation is that they typical PC is bundled with tons of junk software that most people will never use, which causes problems in the long run with underutilized HD space and driver conflicts. Macs come as barebones computers and thus have fewer problems as a result of that fact alone. All of the PCs I've owned since the late '90s were barebones and I haven't had the same problems most people bitch and whine about. So there you go, folks.

 

 

I totally forgot about this, but yes, this has been my experience as well. And that's why examples such as temnov's above is why I think that's where PCs shine. Someone's used a good solid OS as a starting point, stripped of all the ancillary BS and used quality components.

 

 

I think Macs are great computers but I could do without the snobbiness and elitism characteristic of most of its user base.

 

 

I have no idea if its most of the user base, but that sort of thing is annoying. I've mentioned before that when I first purchased a Mac (that'd be a G4 in 2000), I had Mac owners saying, "Welcome to the Mac community." I've still never had anyone explain to me what this is. Is this sort of like a Skull And Crossbones thing? Is there a secret handshake? Do I get discounts at restaurants? Memberships at country clubs?

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One person buys a new car every 3 years, goes for beauty, power, sex appeal, and pays a big honkin premium for the privilege. This person always has a lovely beast of a machine ready to go all the time, tricked out with the latest, under warranty, and pays a very expensive mechanic to do all the work. Keeps it garaged, clean, and just the tiny bit perfumed. Drives with pride and joy in the sleek, enviable machine. Knows next to nothing about how cars work, but knows everything about the latest gadgets and amenities.

 

Another person has been buying cars, and parts of cars, and tools to work on cars, and mechanic's manuals, and still has at least some part or other from almost every car owned. The garage is a mess, tools and oil splotches and rags and cans and an old boombox and empy beer cans, etc. There are two cars parked inside not for protection of the car but because they are next up for working on. And three cars parked outside either under tarps or on blocks or on the street. The one on the street is the one that is currently going. Drives also with pride and joy in his technical expertise and in the secret knowledge that it may not be pretty, but it'll take down any off-the-shelf version anyday, anytime (when it's running.)

 

nat whilk ii

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Thanks Ernest


I really haven't stated my style of recording. Sometimes a catchy line, slang or whatever becomes the hook of my tune. It just comes to me and if I'm smart enough to write it down then I have the beginning of a song. Many times though, I just go into the studio and start hammering on the keyboard while the midi recorder is running, layer upon layer. After 2 hours the song is 90% complete. Then it takes many more hours of editing to clean it up and add vocals , and other tracks. I cut away more than what I keep. I work mostly in Midi at first.


Dan

 

 

Yeah, I used to subscribe to the throw everything at the wall attitude and then we`ll see where we are. In the last 4-5 years, (after my first record actually), I realized I was making myself crazy. I get confused easily so to me its ideal to work within a tight track range. For example, on my next record, Rule #3: There shall be no more than 2 guitar tracks per song.

 

I wrote that rule because one tune on my last record had over 20 guitar tracks which is silly considering when my friends and I play live, we can only play 2 at a time and one of those tracks is a rhythm track! So that immediately made my life easier when it came to tracking and knowing this, I am able to approach each song with a very focused intensity.

 

Last week, a buddy of mine came in to record guitar. He was still in the mindset from the previous record, he just kept playing and playing. In the past I would have recorded all of it and then chopped it up and pasted it together. Last week, I told him to stop after a few takes and we started to develop a much more focused and shorter motif. The whole idea being that the guitar part should be used as a composer would use an oboe or a flute. Its just a different approach I am taking with this new record... streamlining I guess.

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Drives also with pride and joy in his technical expertise and in the secret knowledge that it may not be pretty, but it'll take down any off-the-shelf version anyday, anytime (when it's running.)


nat whilk ii

 

Yes, glad you mentioned that last part there. No fun having a car with potential if the engine got water in it. ;)

 

EB

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I guess I'm the third paradigm and I've found I'm not as alone in this as I thought. I frankly don't give a {censored}.

really.

It's that "never name your cattle" thing for me.

Maybe it's part of the compressed product cycle or maybe it's part of the virtualization (continuing levels of abstraction), but it makes it so that I just don't get attached to the tools...I just roll over all that.

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