Is the Have/Have Not Gap Going Beyond Just Income?

[Anderton]

I was in the airport the other day, and when boarding a flight, there was the special fast boarding lane for beautiful people, and the commoner lane for forum moderators. Now, I understand loyalty programs and such, but it seems this is becoming a more and more common theme - a division of people based into the haves and have nots in all aspects of society.

 

Which of course got me thinking about our world of music. A lot of newer programs demand that you use a particular OS, have a particularly fast CPU, and have more and more RAM. Of course I understand the advantages of having a rockin' system, but I'm concerned this will start creating a have/have not division among musicians that goes beyond simply "well, I'm not feeling flush right now, so I'll pass on an update to my current DAW" to where an increasingly limited number of people will be able to take advantage of the latest tools.

 

Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but it seems the societal dichotomy between the upper and lower classes is extending far beyond what house or car you own, or your income level, to more and more aspects of life itself - including doing computer-based music. Or maybe I'm just going crazy because I have this really, really bad cold right now...

[Bookumdano2]

Everyone has too much. And mostly, via not enough invested sweat into earning it. That's why the universe is moving into correction mode.

 

They let moderators fly now?

[MrKnobs]

If rich people are stupid enough to pay extra and/or lock themselves into a particular airline reward program just to get a red carpet that boards seconds earlier than the crappy rag I get to walk over, more power to them. Likewise if they're not rich people but just poor bastards who have to fly all the time for their job and thus are getting some small perq out of it.

 

We're all getting shoehorned into the same tiny tube anyway.

 

On the other hand, the few people who take their enhanced "status" seriously are just kinda laughable. As David Spade put it, "A guy riding in the limo is making a statement to the world. He's saying, 'Look! I have seventy dollars!!'"

 

Terry D.

[nat whilk II]

It's always been "those who have gets more and those who have not gets what they do have taken away'" as long as I can remember.

 

How can you measure increase and decrease in such a thing? Yes, in certain instances I suppose, but overall, hard to do.

 

But I did make up this saying, "It's expensive to be poor." And I do see a lot more of that now than I used to. Endless little "revenue generators" that pick your pocket constantly....tolls you pay to ride the highway to work the low-paying insecure job and so on.

 

nat whilk ii

[blue2blue]

 

Ain't that the truth. I've had my own ups and downs -- and have been a position to see some of how it works at the extremes -- and once you've seen how the system works, it's not hard to see why the rich keep getting richer.

 

The rich buy the people who make the rules. Simple as that.

 

Mind you, I'm very much someone who sees the value of free enterprise, free markets, and the basic principles of capitalism -- but the system as it stands is cooked, crooked, jury-rigged. You can't have free markets when the bandits and con men rule the marketplace and buy the people who make the laws.

[UstadKhanAli]

It's an interesting observation, an interesting question posed. I don't know the answer to it, either, but I might be more likely to pick up on it if I experience it now.

 

Ever widening divisions between have and have nots, between control and non-control, between opportunity and lack of opportunity in a society rarely goes well. The perceived shift in that division that we as Americans, and perhaps as Europeans as well, feel is something that many others in the world have felt for decades, if not hundreds of years or longer. This is largely what the Arab Spring has been about. It's largely what the unrest with the tens of millions of Chinese farmers and their protests are about. It's largely what the unrest in Palestine and other places in Africa, North Africa, and the Middle East are about. It's largely what creates unrest in Central Africa. It's why leaders are deposed in South America. And on and on.

[UstadKhanAli]

Everyone has too much. And mostly, via not enough invested sweat into earning it. That's why the universe is moving into correction mode.

 

Yeah! Let's celebrate now that things are expensive, people are losing their houses, and we've hit double-digit unemployment!! Finally those lazy bastards have gotten exactly what they deserve!!!! WHEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

 

[blue2blue]

 

It's an interesting observation, an interesting question posed. I don't know the answer to it, either, but I might be more likely to pick up on it if I experience it now. Ever widening divisions between have and have nots, between control and non-control, between opportunity and lack of opportunity in a society rarely goes well. The perceived shift in that division that we as Americans, and perhaps as Europeans as well, feel is something that many others in the world have felt for decades, if not hundreds of years or longer. This is largely what the Arab Spring has been about. It's largely what the unrest with the tens of millions of Chinese farmers and their protests are about. It's largely what the unrest in Palestine and other places in Africa, North Africa, and the Middle East are about. It's largely what creates unrest in Central Africa. It's why leaders are deposed in South America. And on and on.

 

 

I think most regular folks aren't looking for something for nothing -- but they are looking for what proto liberal-progressive Teddy Roosevelt called a square deal.

 

(If folks don't think TR -- often referred to as a Republican icon -- was a proto liberal-progressive, simply look at his politics -- or consider the name chosen for his Republican offshoot party, the Progressive Party, or its platform.)

 

Progressive Party Platform

 

 

A National Health Service to include all existing government medical agencies.

 

Social insurance

, to provide for the elderly, the unemployed, and the disabled

 

Limited

injunctions

in

strikes

 

A

minimum wage law

for women

 

An

eight hour workday

 

A federal

securities commission

 

Farm

relief

 

Workers' compensation

for

work-related injuries

 

An

inheritance

tax

 

A

Constitutional amendment

to allow a

Federal income tax

 

 

The political reforms proposed included

 

 

 

 

Women's suffrage

 

Direct election

of

Senators

 

Primary elections

for state and federal

nominations

 

 

The platform also urged states to adopt measures for "

direct democracy

", including:

 

 

 

 

The

recall election

(citizens may remove an elected official before the end of his term)

 

The

referendum

(citizens may decide on a law by

popular vote

)

 

The

initiative

(citizens may propose a law by

petition

and enact it by popular vote)

 

Judicial

recall (when a court declares a law

unconstitutional

, the citizens may override that ruling by popular vote)

 

 

However, the main theme of the platform was an attack on the domination of politics by

business

interests, which allegedly controlled both established parties. The platform asserted that

 

To destroy this invisible Government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.

[10]

To that end, the platform called for

 

 

 

 

Strict limits and

disclosure

requirements on political

campaign contributions

 

Registration of

lobbyists

 

Recording and publication of

Congressional committee

proceedings

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Party_%28United_States,_1912%29

[gubu]

People like to feel exclusive, or that they have access to something exclusive. More money can buy you more exclusivity but imagination and creativity can get it for you in other ways.

 

On DAWs - I've got PTLE7.4 running on a 12 yo eMac, and I know that if I was any good of a musician/engineer, I could make superhot music on it! Access to the very latest music tech tools has always been limited to a very small number of people.

[Geoff Grace]

 

(If folks don't think TR -- often referred to as a Republican icon -- was a proto liberal-progressive, simply look at his politics -- or consider the name chosen for his Republican offshoot party, the Progressive Party , or its platform.)

 

Or you could even consider just the name "Republican" as it pertains to the original values of the party.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[techristian]

 

Which of course got me thinking about our world of music. A lot of newer programs demand that you use a particular OS, have a particularly fast CPU, and have more and more RAM. Of course I understand the advantages of having a rockin' system, but I'm concerned this will start creating a have/have not division among musicians that goes beyond simply "well, I'm not feeling flush right now, so I'll pass on an update to my current DAW" to where an increasingly limited number of people will be able to take advantage of the latest tools.

 

 

Yes, it is called the DIGITAL DIVIDE and some musicians don't even have access to technology, because they can't afford it. Others don't know about computers because they are MY AGE...yes true, many in their 50's know little about computers.(present company excluded)

 

Dan

[MargeHowel]

 

I was in the airport the other day, and when boarding a flight, there was the special fast boarding lane for beautiful people, and the commoner lane for forum moderators. Now, I understand loyalty programs and such, but it seems this is becoming a more and more common theme - a division of people based into the haves and have nots in all aspects of society. Which of course got me thinking about our world of music. A lot of newer programs demand that you use a particular OS, have a particularly fast CPU, and have more and more RAM. Of course I understand the advantages of having a rockin' system, but I'm concerned this will start creating a have/have not division among musicians that goes beyond simply "well, I'm not feeling flush right now, so I'll pass on an update to my current DAW" to where an increasingly limited number of people will be able to take advantage of the latest tools. Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but it seems the societal dichotomy between the upper and lower classes is extending far beyond what house or car you own, or your income level, to more and more aspects of life itself - including doing computer-based music. Or maybe I'm just going crazy because I have this really, really bad cold right now...

 

 

It's a pretty popular thing to look at right now - there was an NPR piece on that just today - not just technology divides either, but even the number of friends and divorce rates.

 

I'll see if I can find it tomorrow.

[TieDyedDevil]

There's a simpler explanation, Craig, for the cycle in which software upgrades demand hardware upgrades:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirth%27s_law

[Raymar]

I recently read in the LA Times that real estate agents selling high end mansions do a thing called staging - filling up an empty mansion with expensive furniture, art, models, and other sorts of entertainment to make a sale.

 

The middle class is disappearing, people are starting to revolt. There used to be a heavy metal song back in the 80's called "Eat the Rich", that might happen soon.

 

BTW, hardware is getting cheaper. Back in the early 90s you'd pop over $300 for 8 Megs of RAM and your internet connection was text via a 2400 baud dialup modem.

[nice keetee]

Lemmy's Motorhead

 

"Eat The Rich"?

[Mark L]

Doesn't matter how much expensive equipment you have if you can't write a decent tune

[Ernest Buckley]

I was in the airport the other day, and when boarding a flight, there was the special fast boarding lane for beautiful people, and the commoner lane for forum moderators. Now, I understand loyalty programs and such, but it seems this is becoming a more and more common theme - a division of people based into the haves and have nots in all aspects of society. Which of course got me thinking about our world of music. A lot of newer programs demand that you use a particular OS, have a particularly fast CPU, and have more and more RAM. Of course I understand the advantages of having a rockin' system, but I'm concerned this will start creating a have/have not division among musicians that goes beyond simply "well, I'm not feeling flush right now, so I'll pass on an update to my current DAW" to where an increasingly limited number of people will be able to take advantage of the latest tools. Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but it seems the societal dichotomy between the upper and lower classes is extending far beyond what house or car you own, or your income level, to more and more aspects of life itself - including doing computer-based music. Or maybe I'm just going crazy because I have this really, really bad cold right now...

 

Question: How were you dressed?

 

The reason I ask is because I have two fascinating stories to share about treatment....

 

Several years ago, a friend of mine was getting married in Europe and he wanted me to play for his wedding. Basically, all expenses were paid for, I just had to show up at the airport so I did... off to JFK I go and before I know it, I`m sitting in business class on British Airways. Fast forward.... the wedding comes and goes and three days later I`m at Heathrow getting ready to board with my business class ticket. Instead, I ended up waiting a little longer with forum moderators... On the way back home I sat in coach.

 

Several days later, my friend calls me up and tells me the reason I was put in coach was because I was wearing jeans. I had a button down shirt on but no go with the British! Bastards.... sorry Salty.

 

Fast forward... several years ago I went on this kick where I decided to dress in suits with ties. Normally I can wear whatever I want when I work but I just wanted to try this... so I go into this shop where I usually shop and the owner walks over to me, asks me if I need assistance, I tell him yes and before you know it I`m sitting in his office drinking a fresh cup of coffee! and he is personally assisting me.

 

Now, I had been to this shop several times before and I never received this treatment. I went in there one time after this dressed in jeans with a sweatshirt, guess what? The owner ignored me.

 

Moral of story: wear suit and tie more often. Polish those shoes too.

 

I think people view us according to the way we`re dressed more than anything else. Obviously when we open our mouths, thats another indication as to how we are treated but for the most part, it the visual that leads to first impressions and therefore how we are treated.

 

I understand your experience at the airport and its true, certain places have lines for the "beautiful people" but if you want to be treated better in general, dress better.

[WRGKMC]

My view is, whats the sence in busting your ass for cash

if you cant enjoy spending it in any way you choose.

 

If paying to stand in an express line trips your trigger, go for it.

If spending money on the latest gear trips your trigger, go for it

 

All this class warfare crap is wasted energy. Focus it on getting what you want instead crying to momma about how unfair

the world is. Jeez, What a bunch of woosies people have become. Guess you really do have to hit bottom before you

appreciate what you got. There have been have and have nots since man first walked the earth.

Its always been and will always be Survival of the fittest. The strongest man in a tribe got the best women and food.

Along with that he has to constantly watch he back so others wouldnt steal from him.

That makes his life bright to others but they dont see how that paranoia eats away at him.

 

Men have a choice to be moral and fair or evil and greedy.

Those who are moral and fair will be revered by others.

Those who are evil and greedy will go out like a Gadaffi.

It may not be an entire country going after him, He may only wind up dieing like a scrooge,

friendless and miserable.

 

The difference here is how much we as an individual are willing to let the moral decay

get into our souls and spread to others like a cancer.

So my thing is, Let those who got it spend it. Let them have a blast man.

I have no problem being a heelock and snagging some of that cash when it comes my way.

You cant pry it out of their wallets, you have to coax it out like any good salesman does.

[Ernest Buckley]

 

Doesn't matter how much expensive equipment you have if you can't write a decent tune

 

 

Amen brother.

[A. Einstein]

 

Maybe I'm just being paranoid,

 

 

Yes.

[Goobers]

 

Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but it seems the societal dichotomy between the upper and lower classes is extending far beyond what house or car you own, or your income level, to more and more aspects of life itself - including doing computer-based music. Or maybe I'm just going crazy because I have this really, really bad cold right now...

 

 

How's that cold?

 

Hope it's better, cause if it's cleared up, you might want to revisit this since it's never been easier or cheaper for any clod like myself to buy a computer and produce music!

[MargeHowel]

 

There's a simpler explanation, Craig, for the cycle in which software upgrades demand hardware upgrades: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirth%27s_law

 

 

we've spawned a generation that doesn't watch their Big Oh

[Philter]

Look at the difference in primary educational opportunities between different social classes. It's not pretty and getting worse.

[gubu]

 

Look at the difference in primary educational opportunities between different social classes. It's not pretty and getting worse.

 

 

Agreed.

[MargeHowel]

 

Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but it seems the societal dichotomy between the upper and lower classes is extending far beyond what house or car you own, or your income level, to more and more aspects of life itself - including doing computer-based music. Or maybe I'm just going crazy because I have this really, really bad cold right now...

 

 

( BTW this isn't some disguised commentary on OWS or our current economic problems or that people shouldn't be concerned with whatever gaps they live near, that's their political concerns and they are welcome to them)

 

I have been thinking about the question and reading the (excellent) comments and I think the perception can have a lot to do with the context of a pretty narrow reference frame - our time in history, the countries or places we are talking about, a pretty narrow slice of the economic spectrum ( like middle vs upper middle-to-upper).

 

In different times, places, and situations the gp we are talking about it pretty negligible I think.

 

A little while ago I was in Delhi, in a Benz gliding by a kid playing (maybe foraging) in a garbage pile next to a pig and a man {censored}ting on the street.

 

I'm not saying 'quit your whinging' or anything like that. But in whatever we are involved in, smaller distinctions can seem bigger.

 

but I'm not immune. I support open OS (linux, specifically Ubuntu) and open basic productivity tools (libre office, etc) not so much because I think they are better or the right way to do something or to fight our corporate overlords or whatever. But to give people some basic free tools to bridge the digital divide techristian was talking about. A lot of those skills are about just using the technology, so having no resources to get experience and then taking a night class at community center isn't going to help much.