Monitor existing track in PT10 while overdubbing on top of that track ?

[BushmasterM4]

I've been a Tracktion 2 and 3 user since day one and I took the plunge and bought PT10. Here is my question. Say I just recorded a mono guitar track (any track for that matter). I want to overdub a part on the same track. But I want to hear the previous recorded track along with what I am playing on the overdub. Quick punch just lets me hear the original and when I click record then I can hear the new guitar part. I want to hear both at the same time. I want to set a start marker, hit record and play along with the original track and record a new track on top of the original, hearing both as I go. Then I can edit in what I want. Can this be done with PT10 ? If not then I need to grow a third arm and hand to hit the punch when needed. I know I could create another track, but thats a waste of time. Especially if one is using a guitar plugin and there are a lot of overdubs. Thanks.

[UstadKhanAli]

I'm a little confused. Why don't you just record on another track?

[BushmasterM4]

Well. That I can. But if you do alot of overdubs the track count would add up. With Tracktion I can set an in and out marker, loop the track and record as many takes to correct the issue and its still only one track. The overdubs are added on top of the existing track and you can then choose what overdub to splice in. The overdubs show up in a drop down menu showing all the clips in order you played them. And while recording the overdubs I hear the original track plus what I am recording at the same time. So much easier than adding countless extra tracks to do overdubs. Especially when doing vocals. In a nutshell I want the ability to record a single track and then record another track on top of it while listening to both the first track and what Im adding.

[MikeRivers]

 

With Tracktion I can set an in and out marker, loop the track and record as many takes to correct the issue and its still only one track. The overdubs are added on top of the existing track and you can then choose what overdub to splice in. The overdubs show up in a drop down menu showing all the clips in order you played them.

 

 

This is a feature that Tracktion borrowed from the Mackie hard disk recorder which, on the HDR is called "virtual tracks." You're really recording a new track with each pass, it's just that until you open up the virtual tracks to choose the pieces that you're going to paste together, it only shows you (and plays) the last one you recorded.

 

This was a really nice feature on the HDR which was limited to playback of 24 tracks simultaneously. The virtual tracks allowed you record 8 times that many tracks and arrange pieces of them any way you want. On a DAW with an unlimited (or at least more than any sane person would want to deal with) number of tracks, I guess they just let them all show up all the time. There's probably a way in Pro Tools to "hide" tracks that you don't need to see. You might look for that.

 

I'm not a DAW maven so I can't name any programs that offer that same feature. You might take a look at StudioONE (or maybe Craig, who has, will chime in here) and see if it has the "virtual tracks" screen arrangement. It was written by the same people who wrote Tracktion, so maybe they kept some of the better features for their new program.

[BushmasterM4]

I think its a big wish on my end for an answere. I bought PT10 just recently and Im starting to work my way through the manual. I went with PT10 because of features like "Beat Detcective", Studio One, looks really nice from what I have seen and read. I bought Cubase 6 and hated it and I sold it. Its sad Mackie has put Tracktion on the back burner. Many people thaught it was, well, toy like because it doesnt conform to the normal "Windows GUI". But the simplicity of a one page layout is very productive. I recommend everyone download the demo and try it. But hopefully I can get PT's to "somewhat" do what I like.

[blue2blue]

 

I've been a Tracktion 2 and 3 user since day one and I took the plunge and bought PT10. Here is my question. Say I just recorded a mono guitar track (any track for that matter). I want to overdub a part on the same track. But I want to hear the previous recorded track along with what I am playing on the overdub. Quick punch just lets me hear the original and when I click record then I can hear the new guitar part. I want to hear both at the same time. I want to set a start marker, hit record and play along with the original track and record a new track on top of the original, hearing both as I go. Then I can edit in what I want. Can this be done with PT10 ? If not then I need to grow a third arm and hand to hit the punch when needed. I know I could create another track, but thats a waste of time. Especially if one is using a guitar plugin and there are a lot of overdubs. Thanks.

You have 96 tracks, right? (Assuming you're working at 44.1 or 48 kHz.)

 

But, anyhow, I note that PT has "Loop record/track comping" -- isn't that Digi/AVID's name for essentially the feature you're looking for?

 

(I actually have Tracktion 2, which I got while it was free, and I was charmed but preferred Sonar.)

[BushmasterM4]

 

I'm thinking pretty much all the modern DAWs have a similar feature. I know Sonar and Logic do and I'm pretty sure Cubase does. You have 96 tracks, right? (Assuming you're working at 44.1 or 48 kHz.) But, anyhow, I note that PT has "Loop record/track comping" -- isn't that Digi/AVID's name for essentially the feature you're looking for? (I actually have Tracktion 2, which I got while it was free, and I was charmed but preferred Sonar.)

 

 

Yea I guess I shouldnt complain and just create another track for overdubs below the original and then piece a good take together. Its just Im use to recording a track and if I flub a part, I stop it immediately, move the cursor back to just before that part and record on top of it. Then all I have to do is resize the tracks into a seamless take.

 

As far as "Loop record/track comping", Looping isnt realy what I'm wanting. Its the ability to record on top of another track and hear both while doing so. I guess from what I am reading on Avids site and others, you cant do that in PT's. Its also one of the most requested features.

[UstadKhanAli]

Well. That I can. But if you do alot of overdubs the track count would add up.

 

Playlists. Just keep looping PT and it will automatically create new playlists each time out. On one track. I think this is what you want, right? I mean, it's not exactly the same thing, but accomplishes this all the same. I think. And looping is what you want, isn't it? You would loop the same part and then record it numerous times, having each one saved to a playlist on one track.

[BushmasterM4]

Playlists. Just keep looping PT and it will automatically create new playlists each time out. On one track. I think this is what you want, right? I mean, it's not exactly the same thing, but accomplishes this all the same. I think. And looping is what you want, isn't it? You would loop the same part and then record it numerous times, having each one saved to a playlist on one track.

 

I need to check into the playlist feature, but I found out ProTools wont do what I would like it too. The HD version does. What I can do is create a bus, for instance "Guitar Mix" and then record a guitar track. If there are mistakes, then create another track and send it to the guitar bus and record along with the original guitar track. That way I can hear both the original track and what Im recording at the same time. Then piece together a good take. Not as quick as I can do it in Tracktion (and with one track), but it will work.

[Ryst]

Playlists. Just keep looping PT and it will automatically create new playlists each time out. On one track. I think this is what you want, right? I mean, it's not exactly the same thing, but accomplishes this all the same. I think. And looping is what you want, isn't it? You would loop the same part and then record it numerous times, having each one saved to a playlist on one track.

 

I was going to suggest Playlists as well. Make a new track...only one. Make sure "automatically create new playlists when loop recording" is checked in Preferences (Operation). Then from there you can listen to the track you recorded first and overdub till your little heart is content, then open the playlists lane in the edit window and edit your little heart out.

[MikeRivers]

 

Yea I guess I shouldnt complain and just create another track for overdubs below the original and then piece a good take together. Its just Im use to recording a track and if I flub a part, I stop it immediately, move the cursor back to just before that part and record on top of it.

 

 

Oh, then I misunderstood the feature you were missing. I would think you could do that (essentially a punch-in) on any DAW. I would certainly expect it anyway and would be disappointed with Pro Tools if it didn't work that way. You never lose the original recording like you do when you punch in on tape, you only update the playlist with each pass on a track. Every DAW works like that.

 

What happens when you try to do that in Pro Tools? Can you not put the cursor in the middle of a previously recorded track and start recording?

[MikeRivers]

 

Playlists. Just keep looping PT and it will automatically create new playlists each time out. On one track.

 

 

You don't have to loop (continuous play/record) in order to do this in Pro Tools, do you? Can you do it manually? I remember being surprised to read, several years ago, that it wasn't common to be able to put a DAW into Record from Play unless you let the program do it by setting up punch in/out points. Maybe this is (still) the problem?

[MikeRivers]

 

That way I can hear both the original track and what Im recording at the same time.

 

 

So you want to hear the mistake along with the part you're re-recording? Gosh, we worked hard to get that "feature" OUT of a multitrack tape recorder/console setup. And I didn't even think you could do that with Tracktion.

 

What DAWs don't do very well (or at least didn't used to do very well) is switch from playback to input monitor when you enter record on the fly, which may be why, at least on some DAWs at some time, you couldn't enter Record on the fly. With a console, you could monitor a mix of the playback by forcing the DAW to always play the track whether you were recording or playing - the equivalent of switching a multitrack record to Repro Monitor mode, and the input source.

 

Some people, maybe people like you, liked to hear that, because it helped them to get the phrasing of the overdub the same as the original recording. It helped in the instance where you sang or played the "fix" a bit too fast or too slow and there was a gap or a glitch when dropping out of Record.

 

These things are meant to work the way the programmers and the masses think they should work. Often one, the other, or both are wrong in the eyes of an individual user.

 

But I'm still a bit unsure of what you want to do. I guess I'd have to see you working (or not working) to be certain.

[Lee Knight]

 

Well. That I can. But if you do alot of overdubs the track count would add up. With Tracktion I can set an in and out marker, loop the track and record as many takes to correct the issue and its still only one track.

 

 

I think you're seeing an issue where there isn't one. n

 

No matter which way you record a take, you're chewing up real estate. By recording to another track, it sounds like you will be combining them anyway. So worry over losing your track count isn't an issue. You'll just copy, paste, then disable the extra track. It'll be there if you need it but for now will be hidden and not robbing a voice.

 

If, on the other hand, you don't need to hear the initial track at the point of overdub, simply punch in. Or as suggested, use multiple playlists and comp.

 

Am I missing something?

[UstadKhanAli]

 

You don't have to loop (continuous play/record) in order to do this in Pro Tools, do you? Can you do it manually?

 

 

Yup!

[UstadKhanAli]

 

I was going to suggest Playlists as well. Make a new track...only one. Make sure "automatically create new playlists when loop recording" is checked in Preferences (Operation). Then from there you can listen to the track you recorded first and overdub till your little heart is content, then open the playlists lane in the edit window and edit your little heart out.

 

 

Thanks for being more specific. This is exactly what I was referring to!! I think this is what you want. If this is not it, then I have no idea.

[UstadKhanAli]

 

I think you're seeing an issue where there isn't one. n No matter which way you record a take, you're chewing up real estate. By recording to another track, it sounds like you will be combining them anyway. So worry over losing your track count isn't an issue. You'll just copy, paste, then disable the extra track. It'll be there if you need it but for now will be hidden and not robbing a voice. If, on the other hand, you don't need to hear the initial track at the point of overdub, simply punch in. Or as suggested, use multiple playlists and comp. Am I missing something?

 

 

This is what I'm wondering as well. Also, the Playlist function does everything the OP needs it to...on one track, looping, non-looping, etc.

[blue2blue]

For reference, sounds like Bushmaster's desired approach isn't too far different from what I've settled into in recent years. I use Sonar, which, of course, has somewhat different features. I'll record my track until I hit a part I know I don't want, then hit stop, quickly 'slip-edit' the end of the clip I just recorded to before the mistake and then roll playback, punching in whenever is convenient before the mistake. Sonar plays back the existing clip even while in record. I track my new section and then, if it proves to be a keeper, I'll go back to the front of the 'punch' and slip edit the overlap and adjust the crossfade optimally.

[Ryst]

 

This is what I'm wondering as well. Also, the Playlist function does everything the OP needs it to...on one track, looping, non-looping, etc.

 

 

There is also a key command for new playlists if you decide not to do loop recording.

 

control + for new playlist

control + cmnd + for duplicate playlist

ctrl + opt + to create new playlist on all tracks

[WRGKMC]

I just keep it simple for manual punch ins using sonar. I dont see why PT would be any different.

 

If I need a scratch track to give me cues to play along with it, I simply copy and paste the track so I have two.

 

Then with I just adjust the playback volume down on the copied track off so I dont hear the punch ins.

I can then punch in my dubs/repairs on the copied track leaving the original alone.

If I screw up a punch in I can just undo it with the edit undo record function and start over.

 

When I'm done, I can delete the original track or cut and paste parts from the copied track if I need

sharp cuts into the original. I run my DAW with quite a bit of latency so punch ins arent exactly instantanious.

They occur when I hit record, but theres a delay in what I hear.

 

I dont do allot of punch ins so I dont even bother with recording loops. If I had to loop something

it would be a clear indication my playing ability isnt where it should be to record and looping isnt going to help.

I'm old school and 95% of my stuff is recorded in a single take. Multiple tracks and redubs are momentum killers.

 

I recently got a midi foot controller for a guitar effects unit. I may eventually try and use it

to punch the record button in and out on the DAW. As I said, I'm old school on this stuff and it would

benifit my work flow if it works for punching in stuff. I have free hands to work a mouse punching vocals,

but guitar can be a bitch.

[MikeRivers]

 

I just keep it simple for manual punch ins using sonar. I dont see why PT would be any different.

 

 

They would be different because they can be different.

[BushmasterM4]

 

Oh, then I misunderstood the feature you were missing. I would think you could do that (essentially a punch-in) on any DAW. I would certainly expect it anyway and would be disappointed with Pro Tools if it didn't work that way. You never lose the original recording like you do when you punch in on tape, you only update the playlist with each pass on a track. Every DAW works like that. What happens when you try to do that in Pro Tools? Can you not put the cursor in the middle of a previously recorded track and start recording?

 

 

In PT when you try it, you cant monitor what your playing until you hit the punch in button or marker. All you hear is the original. There are plenty of work arounds, but they mean adding tracks. No biggie.

[BushmasterM4]

 

So you want to hear the mistake along with the part you're re-recording? Gosh, we worked hard to get that "feature" OUT of a multitrack tape recorder/console setup. And I didn't even think you could do that with Tracktion. What DAWs don't do very well (or at least didn't used to do very well) is switch from playback to input monitor when you enter record on the fly, which may be why, at least on some DAWs at some time, you couldn't enter Record on the fly. With a console, you could monitor a mix of the playback by forcing the DAW to always play the track whether you were recording or playing - the equivalent of switching a multitrack record to Repro Monitor mode, and the input source. Some people, maybe people like you, liked to hear that, because it helped them to get the phrasing of the overdub the same as the original recording. It helped in the instance where you sang or played the "fix" a bit too fast or too slow and there was a gap or a glitch when dropping out of Record. These things are meant to work the way the programmers and the masses think they should work. Often one, the other, or both are wrong in the eyes of an individual user. But I'm still a bit unsure of what you want to do. I guess I'd have to see you working (or not working) to be certain.

 

 

Tracktion lets you do that. The clips are stacked on top of each other (same track) in a 3d sort of way. Tracktion has a mouse feature called "Bring obscure item to the top", so you can edit which layer you want. And you hear both the mess up and the overdub. I just resize/edit the clips into one seamless take. And it all done with one track.

[BushmasterM4]

 

I was going to suggest Playlists as well. Make a new track...only one. Make sure "automatically create new playlists when loop recording" is checked in Preferences (Operation). Then from there you can listen to the track you recorded first and overdub till your little heart is content, then open the playlists lane in the edit window and edit your little heart out.

 

 

That sounds like a nice option too. Was thinking a bus and assign a few tracks to it, but that may be easier and quicker. Im slowly reading the huge manual and have no doubt it will work out in the end. I posted over at Avids site too and many thaught I was nuts. Then someone posted about how old analog desks and tape had that option. Like Mike Rivers said.

[BushmasterM4]

So you want to hear the mistake along with the part you're re-recording? Gosh, we worked hard to get that "feature" OUT of a multitrack tape recorder/console setup. And I didn't even think you could do that with Tracktion. What DAWs don't do very well (or at least didn't used to do very well) is switch from playback to input monitor when you enter record on the fly, which may be why, at least on some DAWs at some time, you couldn't enter Record on the fly. With a console, you could monitor a mix of the playback by forcing the DAW to always play the track whether you were recording or playing - the equivalent of switching a multitrack record to Repro Monitor mode, and the input source. Some people, maybe people like you, liked to hear that, because it helped them to get the phrasing of the overdub the same as the original recording. It helped in the instance where you sang or played the "fix" a bit too fast or too slow and there was a gap or a glitch when dropping out of Record. These things are meant to work the way the programmers and the masses think they should work. Often one, the other, or both are wrong in the eyes of an individual user. But I'm still a bit unsure of what you want to do. I guess I'd have to see you working (or not working) to be certain.

 

Thats the way I learned to edit with Tracktion, and to be able to monitor the original take and the overdub is needed because of the "phrasing" like you mention. I know adding another track or using a sub mix / bus is a solution. I just use to doing so with one track and I thaught I was missing some button to click