CMS Author MikeRivers Posted July 26, 2012 CMS Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 Doesn't anything work right any more? I won't continue my rant about the PreSonus StuidoLive mixer's solo function here (it's practically entered the folk process) but this morning the target is Reaper. Along with my in-progress review of the TASCAM DR-40 recorder, viewed by some as "the Zoom H4n killer, while I didn't want to do a full out shootout, I wanted to have something to say about this. I took both to a concert last evening, along with my old Zoom H2 just to assure myself that they've actually made some progress over the past 5 years or so in how these things sound. OK, both are H2 killers. But that's not why I came to talk to you here this morning. I imported the three recordings into three separate stereo tracks in Reaper intending to switch between recorders and try to analyze the differences. I wanted to do something really straightforward - solo one track, solo another track, solo the third track, and just go around by pressing a button and having the playback switch from one to the next. Reaper has a solo button, but making a smooth transition listening to tracks is impossible. The solo buttons don't work like "radio buttons" - only one active at a time. So since I don't have two mice or a multi-touch screen monitor (and I doubt if it's supported anyway) the best I can do is mute all three tracks, then un-mute one, mute it, then un-mute the next one. This isn't really desirable. I can tell that the recordings are different for sure, but since aural memory is really only accurate for about a second or less (according to JJ who ought to know as studied aural perception for many years) it's hard to assess what's really different other than on a general basis. That's probably OK for the purpose, but I'd like to give myself a second opinion. On my console, the SOLO buttons latch, but I can put a finger, or in the case of stereo tracks, two fingers on hand, on the buttons and almost seamlessly switch back and forth between tracks. I probably have enough cables around here so that I can hook up my Mackie 1200F and get all the analog outputs out to my console, but this isn't the bronze age any more. We should be able to do on a DAW what we do on a console. Am I missing somethig here? Are there forms of music production that people are doing nowadays for which solos that work as Reaper implements them work better? Do any other DAWs that you use have click-and-release solo buttons when soloing tracks in a sequence? Doesn't anybody loop over a phrase with multiple takes when comping to decide which take is the best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tim Mayock Posted July 26, 2012 Members Share Posted July 26, 2012 Mike, I have been grouchy for like a month, Today i got the air conditioning fixed in the studio and I love life again. Tomorrow i will find things to be annoyed about, i am sure of it! It is so easy when one interfaces with technology! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted July 26, 2012 Members Share Posted July 26, 2012 Doesn't anything work right any more? I won't continue my rant about the PreSonus StuidoLive mixer's solo function here (it's practically entered the folk process) but this morning the target is Reaper. I imported the three recordings into three separate stereo tracks in Reaper intending to switch between recorders and try to analyze the differences. I wanted to do something really straightforward - solo one track, solo another track, solo the third track, and just go around by pressing a button and having the playback switch from one to the next. Reaper has a solo button, but making a smooth transition listening to tracks is impossible. The solo buttons don't work like "radio buttons" - only one active at a time. ??? Most solo buttons are like this. Not just Reaper. Being able to solo more than one track at a time is preferable to me. In any case, Ctrl-Alt-Solo will do what you want - solo just the selected track and un-solo all the others. There's also a context menu if you right-click the solo button, and you can choose "Exclusive Solo" from that menu. There are other menu options for the solo and mute buttons too, which you will probably find useful, and their keyboard shortcuts are displayed on the menus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted July 26, 2012 Author CMS Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 ??? Most solo buttons are like this. Not just Reaper. My point, exactly. Being able to solo more than one track at a time is preferable to me. Maybe for you, but not for me. And besides, if it's more than one, it's not a solo. In any case, Ctrl-Alt-Solo will do what you want - solo just the selected track and un-solo all the others. There's also a context menu if you right-click the solo button, and you can choose "Exclusive Solo" from that menu. Thanks. I know I can usually count on you for a good Reaper tip. That's just what I want to do. I searched the doc file for the word "solo" and while I found an option of "solo in place" (with all the bus feeds) I didn't see anything about REAL solo. I guess "solo" is yet one more word in our vocabulary that now needs a modifier because someone thought they had a better idea. (We never had PATA until there was SATA. Before that it was just plain ATA because parallel was part of the interface description) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted July 26, 2012 Members Share Posted July 26, 2012 Clicking the Solo) button for a track mutes all other tracks. There are two modes for the track solo function: If the option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted July 26, 2012 Author CMS Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 Right so far. That's what a SOLO function is supposed to do. There are two modes for the track solo function: If the option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted July 26, 2012 Members Share Posted July 26, 2012 Sonar has a choice of exclusive or additive solo. But here's a tip for situations where you want to compare a single track to multiple soloed tracks (for example, you bounced four tracks to one through processing, and want to A/B the bounced version with the originals). Set up exclusive mode, and solo the bounced track. Now assign them all to a group. If you click on one of the unsoloed tracks, all the unsoloed tracks will be soloed because they're part of a group. But if you click on the bounced track, it will solo and turn off the others. At least that's what happens in Sonar, but I suspect other DAWs with grouping and an exclusive solo mode would work the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted July 26, 2012 Members Share Posted July 26, 2012 Is this in Reaper? Maybe all possible in Reaper ---> look into the list of key commands, and see what the possibilities are in Reaper re: soloing. So far no job came in Reaper project format, but when it happen I will first adjust my most used key commands which are globally the same in all digital audio software in use. You take comfort in having more options, I take comfort in just having one, as long as it's the right one. Dear Mike (can I call you Papa?), I sport the same foible you have for digital audio production software but for for vehicles, I walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted July 27, 2012 Author CMS Author Share Posted July 27, 2012 Sonar has a choice of exclusive or additive solo. But here's a tip for situations where you want to compare a single track to multiple soloed tracks (for example, you bounced four tracks to one through processing, and want to A/B the bounced version with the originals). Set up exclusive mode, and solo the bounced track. Now assign them all to a group. If you click on one of the unsoloed tracks, all the unsoloed tracks will be soloed because they're part of a group. But if you click on the bounced track, it will solo and turn off the others. That's so simple it makes me laugh with sarcasm. Reaper has something like that, I think, that it calls "Folder tracks." You can put a group of tracks in a folder that looks and feels like a single track. What you do to the folder gets done to all of the tracks in it, including things like soloing. Lee's solution works fine, as long as I remember it, which probably won't be very long. And the way the documentation addresses it (yup, it's in there) it isn't what I'd recognize as what I want to do. It's amazing what people can dream up to do with a simple concept like soloing a channel or track, very little of which I can appreciate. I guess I'm just old fashioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted July 30, 2012 Members Share Posted July 30, 2012 Doesn't anything work right any more? I won't continue my rant about the PreSonus StuidoLive mixer's solo function here (it's practically entered the folk process) but this morning the target is Reaper. Along with my in-progress review of the TASCAM DR-40 recorder, viewed by some as "the Zoom H4n killer, while I didn't want to do a full out shootout, I wanted to have something to say about this. I took both to a concert last evening, along with my old Zoom H2 just to assure myself that they've actually made some progress over the past 5 years or so in how these things sound. OK, both are H2 killers. But that's not why I came to talk to you here this morning. I imported the three recordings into three separate stereo tracks in Reaper intending to switch between recorders and try to analyze the differences. I wanted to do something really straightforward - solo one track, solo another track, solo the third track, and just go around by pressing a button and having the playback switch from one to the next. Reaper has a solo button, but making a smooth transition listening to tracks is impossible. The solo buttons don't work like "radio buttons" - only one active at a time. So since I don't have two mice or a multi-touch screen monitor (and I doubt if it's supported anyway) the best I can do is mute all three tracks, then un-mute one, mute it, then un-mute the next one. This isn't really desirable. I can tell that the recordings are different for sure, but since aural memory is really only accurate for about a second or less (according to JJ who ought to know as studied aural perception for many years) it's hard to assess what's really different other than on a general basis. That's probably OK for the purpose, but I'd like to give myself a second opinion.On my console, the SOLO buttons latch, but I can put a finger, or in the case of stereo tracks, two fingers on hand, on the buttons and almost seamlessly switch back and forth between tracks. I probably have enough cables around here so that I can hook up my Mackie 1200F and get all the analog outputs out to my console, but this isn't the bronze age any more. We should be able to do on a DAW what we do on a console. Am I missing somethig here? Are there forms of music production that people are doing nowadays for which solos that work as Reaper implements them work better? Do any other DAWs that you use have click-and-release solo buttons when soloing tracks in a sequence? Doesn't anybody loop over a phrase with multiple takes when comping to decide which take is the best? Why not just copy clips of what you want to compare to new track(s)? I'd think that would be simpler & less painful than what you're doing. When done, just delete the extra tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted July 30, 2012 Members Share Posted July 30, 2012 I guess I'm just old fashioned. No no. You are up to the latest fashiom, totally en vogue. Btw, I have a steam engine for sale, interested? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted July 30, 2012 Author CMS Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 Why not just copy clips of what you want to compare to new track(s)? Because when mixing live, there ARE no clips. And when was copying a clip, particularly if you first have to split it out of a file, easier than pushing a button? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted July 30, 2012 Author CMS Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 Btw, I have a steam engine for sale, interested? Already got one. That's what drives my tape deck. Back when I was in high school, I saw a cartoon, or maybe it was a spoof article, in one of the Hi Fi magazines reporting on the steAmpex steam driven tape recorder. Really. Wish Google was around then so you could look it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted July 30, 2012 Members Share Posted July 30, 2012 Because when mixing live, there ARE no clips. And when was copying a clip, particularly if you first have to split it out of a file, easier than pushing a button? Hmmm.... didn't know it was a live situation. Lee Fliers suggestion is probably the best then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted July 30, 2012 Author CMS Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 Hmmm.... didn't know it was a live situation. Lee Fliers suggestion is probably the best then. In looking back at what was frustrating me at the time, it indeed was with a DAW, and Lee's instruction indeed gave me the action I wanted. I wonder if there's a way to make that a default so I don't have to remember what other keys I need to press along with clicking the SOLO button. There are, believe it or not (maybe you're even one) people who are using a DAW program with a multichannel audio interface to mix live shows. Definitely no clips there, and sometimes you really need to be quick on the Solo button in order to figure out where a problem is coming from. But I' also annoyed by the PreSonus StudioLive mixer that has a dumb implementation of the Solo function. And the way the industry goes these days, if one company does it, another will do the same thing because they think that's the way it's supposed to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted July 31, 2012 Members Share Posted July 31, 2012 In looking back at what was frustrating me at the time, it indeed was with a DAW, and Lee's instruction indeed gave me the action I wanted. I wonder if there's a way to make that a default so I don't have to remember what other keys I need to press along with clicking the SOLO button. There are, believe it or not (maybe you're even one) people who are using a DAW program with a multichannel audio interface to mix live shows. Definitely no clips there, and sometimes you really need to be quick on the Solo button in order to figure out where a problem is coming from.But I' also annoyed by the PreSonus StudioLive mixer that has a dumb implementation of the Solo function. And the way the industry goes these days, if one company does it, another will do the same thing because they think that's the way it's supposed to be. You can reassign hot keys in Reaper in any fashion you desire, but that probably isn't quite what you want. You should contact the Reaper forums and explain what you want. I'd bet even money they'd create a new build with that option within a week or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted July 31, 2012 Author CMS Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 You can reassign hot keys in Reaper in any fashion you desire, but that probably isn't quite what you want. You should contact the Reaper forums and explain what you want. I'd bet even money they'd create a new build with that option within a week or two. Good suggestion. I don't use Reaper a lot so I've never considered joining the fourm - it seems I get sucked into these forums too easily - but it's certainly worth suggesting. It should be simple enough to make the "exclusive solo" the default for the Solo button the default by choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Extreme Mixing Posted July 31, 2012 Members Share Posted July 31, 2012 Good suggestion. I don't use Reaper a lot so I've never considered joining the fourm - it seems I get sucked into these forums too easily - but it's certainly worth suggesting. It should be simple enough to make the "exclusive solo" the default for the Solo button the default by choice. If you did that, there would be an equal number of people who would be unhappy with that. Not knowing the software is the problem here. You have made a giant problem out of your own ignorance. The functionality was there all along. We can't all know everything. That's why most of us choose a couple of programs and learn them. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted July 31, 2012 Members Share Posted July 31, 2012 with the solo button in the new celemony production software I can solo one instrument out of an orchestral stereo track, for example the piccolo flute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted July 31, 2012 Author CMS Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 If you did that, there would be an equal number of people who would be unhappy with that. Actually, if this were the permanent default, I suspect that there would be more people who prefer it, but then I expect that everyone is as smart about these things as I am. Not knowing the software is the problem here. You have made a giant problem out of your own ignorance. The functionality was there all along. No, the functionality is not there at all. I want to solo one track when I click a Solo button, and not have to use multiple mouse clicks to un-solo it before I solo another channel. Any reasons that anyone can come up with for having two or more channels soloed at once are really contrived, and not something that most people would do as a matter of course. However, if I were to ask for that favor, I would ask that, as an option, it was the normal "click on solo" action. See this Reaper setup screen: Note that the line with the red arrow refers to "normal solo." Well, to me, the "normal solo" is not normal, it's something strange that I'd rarely use. If another line with a check box was added below that which said something like "Solo is 'Exclusive Solo' (Ctrl-Alt Solo)" then users could have a choice as to how the Solo button operates. If there's one thing that Reaper does, it's offer a lot of ways to customize it to the user's perferences. This is just one place where there's no offer to customize, and that's what I'd ask for. But your post kind of brings home the point of my original post, and that's that there doesn't seem to be a clear definition of the Solo function on a mixer or a virtual mixer. There used to be one way that it worked, and then someone either thought he had a better idea or (more likely) never used a mixer before and made up his own interpretation of "solo." So now anyone who uses (or more significantly, learned on) a hardware mixer has to adapt or use a three-finger work-around. We can't all know everything. That's why most of us choose a couple of programs and learn them. I have yet to choose my program, but having a program that works in a way that makes sense to me, as opposed to one that doesn't make sense, would greatly influence my choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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