sibelius shut off the lights yesterday

[techristian]

I wonder what the motivation for this was. $18 million a year and revenue, jobs for hundreds and then this ?

 

http://www.artsjournal.com/slippeddisc/2012/08/at-sibelius-software-the-last-staff-turn-out-the-lights.html

 

Dan

[MikeRivers]

Well, it's an Avid company, and they're cleaning house trying to find out where they can make money. Even Gus is thinking of opening a taco stand since they decided to ditch M-Audio.

 

Let's face it - most pepole making music today can't read it, so while the market for music copyists is about as big as it ever was (which isn't very big) there was no explosion like for home recording. And in this business, if you can't sell millions of units, you have to charge what they're really worth, and that's not easy for today's buyers to accept.

[rasputin1963]

Some may remember my review here of their latest version of SIBELIUS a cople of months ago. I'd said the GUI was ugly and confusing. Some here wished to argue with me, but I think I was right.

[A. Einstein]

that notation software wasn't that good anyway,

 

making sheet music is the job of specialists, copyists,

 

a composer would loose his mind wasting his time with making scores and the music sheet material for the sessions, orchestra and publishing houses.

[Huh?]

 

making sheet music is the job of specialists, copyists,

 

 

Sure, at certain levels, but even there you will find Sibelius used. What do you think many huge film composers use before it is handed to the Union copyists to transcribe etc by hand ...MAYBE? And Sibelius is something that can be used by anyone, including students and it is in use at many schools and music societies. Of course some composers will insist on scores being done by hand but the software is fast and that is appealing to many.

 

When entering by mouse.....does it do absolutely everything just like *click* that........no, of course not.......but it does just about everything....*click* just like that and there are workarounds for many of the small things it is clunky with. But if you are composing using a keyboard controller into the program, it is blazing fast.

 

It is a very good program Albert. Of course with your experience perhaps you prefer old school pencil and paper and that is fine too. Personal preference.

 

 

Maybe Sibelius reached maximum development .....but that happens sometimes and a new version is viewed as flat/linear...nothing to see here folks.......but as is often the case a subsequent release might be earth shattering......ie Pro Tools 5 to PT 6..... awful and within 6 there were bad things.....it was up to v9 that the magic came back.

 

Yes it costs to keep a division open......but that was the friggen development team for cripes sake!!! The guys who have been on it since day 1. Why assassinate the whole damn team. Avid pisses me off. Gary Greenfield is a prick.

 

Dammit....I've had Sibelius since 4 and an on Sib 6 now. don't know whether to grab 7 while I can......but some say it is not that great and that 6 was better. I have a lot invested in Sibelius. Oh well. Typical Wall St mentality/mindset. Profit NOW and screw how it affects everyone........ except the top dogs.

[A. Einstein]

 

Wrong Albert. It is very good software. But unless you have owned it and used it, you wouldn't know would you? Sure, at certain levels, but even there you will find Sibelius used. What do you think many huge film composers use before it is handed to the Union copyists to transcribe etc by hand ... MAYBE ? And Sibelius is something that can be used by anyone, including students and it is in use at many schools and music societies. Of course some composers will insist on scores being done by hand but the software is fast and that is appealing to many.

 

 

We give the copyist the MIDI data, not handwritings.

 

Music notation is a written musical language, and only music and only composers and copysist are in command of the "grammatics".

 

"Anyone" using it, that's something else.

[A. Einstein]

 

Wrong Albert. It is very good software. But unless you have owned it and used it, you wouldn't know would you? Sure, at certain levels, but even there you will find Sibelius used. What do you think many huge film composers use before it is handed to the Union copyists to transcribe etc by hand ... MAYBE ? And Sibelius is something that can be used by anyone, including students and it is in use at many schools and music societies. Of course some composers will insist on scores being done by hand but the software is fast and that is appealing to many.

 

 

We give the copyist the MIDI data, not handwritings.

 

Music notation is a written musical language, and only composers and copyist are in command of all the "grammatics".

 

"Anyone" using it, that's something else.

[techristian]

Wow. I hope that you are all wrong about Gus. As you may have seen in some of my earlier posts, I'm no fan of DigiDesign/ Avid. However, I can understand what is happening though. When the software works, and works well, what else needs to be done? ....except perhaps maintaining it for new OS types.

 

Dan

[MikeRivers]

I can understand what is happening though. When the software works, and works well, what else needs to be done? ....except perhaps maintaining it for new OS types.

 

That's really important, but you can't make any money at it. First, OS updates significant enough to require a program update don't occur all that often. It's drivers for hardware that seem to require major work when a new OS comes along. And, second, users expect free updates so theyr program will work with their new OS. Try to charge them and they scream bloody murder and swear they'll switch to another company.

 

Another real pisser is when a company discontinues a perfectly good piece of hardware rather than develop a driver for a new operating system. I have a growing collection of things that have to be re-purposed, some still usable as mic preamp, others as door stops or paperweights. Nothing big enough for a boat anchor yet, though. That stuff still works without software.

[Anderton]

 

I wonder what the motivation for this was. $18 million a year and revenue, jobs for hundreds and then this ? http://www.artsjournal.com/slippeddisc/2012/08/at-sibelius-software-the-last-staff-turn-out-the-lights.html Dan

 

 

If past experience is any indication, Jack O'Donnell from Alesis/Numark/Akai will buy it for next to nothing, get laughed at for making such a stupid investment, make it profitable in a year, and really profitable thereafter.

[Huh?]

 

Music notation is a written musical language, and only music and only composers and copysist are in command of the "grammatics".

 

 

Well, that's the thing though....the Sibelius and Finale software do a phenomenal job of "being in command" of all things to do with getting the notes down on the staves. And the scores/charts look beautiful....awesome fonts etc. That is now what I hear that the main houses/studio's in LA and London have become used to the consistency and neat look of the software driven charts and almost expect them now. To my surprise I read that Finale is most used in recording/live and Sibelius mostly in education. I am sure that Berklee uses Sibelius.

 

Anyway, not my area of great expertise so I am sure you have an answer.

 

Oh....and no problem planning the page turns using software.

[deanmass]

Gus announced on FB that he is done at Avid, moving to a new gig. Sibelius, I think, is being heavily impacted by the iPad notation software. When you can get stuff for $20 that used to cost $300, you are gonna take a hit.

 

Personally, I think Craigs opinion is dead on. Someone will snatch it up, re work it, iPad/ios/droid/etc it, and make money again.

[A. Einstein]

 

Well since I do not understand how copyists work, can you explain how the copyists extract the MIDI data....turn all those regions and velocity stalk etc etc etc info into notes, timing, phrasing and dynamics etc etc? Don't they use a sequencer to get the MIDI data into audio, maybe using sample libraries..... or use the notation software built into the sequencer? It seems it almost has to be done in the software realm unless they are going to spend a long time doing it by ear or however. Time is money! Well, that's the thing though....the Sibelius and Finale software do a phenomenal job of "being in command" of all things to do with getting the notes down on the staves. And the scores/charts look beautiful....awesome fonts etc. That is now what I hear that the main houses/studio's in LA and London have become used to the consistency and neat look of the software driven charts and almost expect them now. To my surprise I read that Finale is most used in recording/live and Sibelius mostly in education. I am sure that Berklee uses Sibelius. Anyway, not my area of great expertise so I am sure you have an answer. Oh....and no problem planning the page turns using software.

 

 

A composer delivers the data to the copyists. The copyst, depending on how fast the music must be on the music stand at the sound stage, he prepares so about three minutes of music in 5-7 hours for a whole orchestra and all other musical instriments, in other word when it gets dense in a long project, for example a movie which need 2-3 hours of underscoring, the copyist gets the latest cue so about 02:00 AM from the composer, and at 08:00 AM the sheet music is on the music stand in the recording studio.

[Geoff Grace]

I'm not without sympathy for the Sibelius employees or users, and I can understand why the author of the article is trying to fire people up to restore jobs and software development to their former states. But it's possible to go overboard even in support of a good cause. In this case, I don't think the following characterization of Avid is fair:

 

 

The golfing buddies on the Avid board have shown themselves time and again to be devoid of vision or proper understanding of the music industry. Their Wall St modus operandi is to buy viable companies, sack the staff, close down the offices and then simply let them trade on reputation with zero overheads until the products die off. Avid are literally making a killing at our expense.

 

If this were truly Avid's modus operandi, Pro Tools would be a distant memory, former Wizoo developers would never have created Advanced Instruments Research Group virtual instruments for Digidesign, and M-Audio employees would have been sacked years ago.

 

I'm not saying Avid is doing the right thing here, but Norman Lebrecht's villainization of the company is overblown to say the least. From my vantage point, Avid appears to be trying to stay afloat in a sea of red ink.

 

Maybe they made poor choices that got them there; maybe they're the victims of bad luck; maybe both. I don't know. But as a longtime Pro Tools user, I hope Avid finds its way back to the black.

 

And simply as a human being, I hope that Sibelius employees will be able to return to work ASAP.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[A. Einstein]

 

Well since I do not understand how copyists work, can you explain how the copyists extract the MIDI data....turn all those regions and velocity stalk etc etc etc info into notes, timing, phrasing and dynamics etc etc? Don't they use a sequencer to get the MIDI data into audio, maybe using sample libraries..... or use the notation software built into the sequencer? It seems it almost has to be done in the software realm unless they are going to spend a long time doing it by ear or however. Time is money! Well, that's the thing though....the Sibelius and Finale software do a phenomenal job of "being in command" of all things to do with getting the notes down on the staves. And the scores/charts look beautiful....awesome fonts etc. That is now what I hear that the main houses/studio's in LA and London have become used to the consistency and neat look of the software driven charts and almost expect them now. To my surprise I read that Finale is most used in recording/live and Sibelius mostly in education. I am sure that Berklee uses Sibelius. Anyway, not my area of great expertise so I am sure you have an answer. Oh....and no problem planning the page turns using software.

 

 

A composer delivers the data to the copyists. The copyst, depending on how fast the music must be on the music stand at the sound stage, prepares so about three minutes of music in 5-7 hours for an orchestra and all other musical instruments, in other words, when it gets dense in a long project, for example a movie which needs 2-3 hours of underscoring, the copyist gets the latest cue so about 02:00 AM from the composer, and at 08:00 AM the sheet music is on the music stand in the recording studio. In such a case where a whole projet's duration is about 2-3 months, they work for 2-3 months this schedule.

 

 

.

[Geoff Grace]

Avid's side:

 

 

First and foremost, I want to personally give my assurance that Avid is deeply committed to developing Sibelius moving forward. Our plan is to integrate Sibelius development more closely with the rest of Avid's audio development teams in California, and I

[dav1]

 

Avid's side:

 

 

The Avid statement pretty much confirms the worst. I envisage one of the following 3 outcomes for the next version:

 

1) It will be the current version plus whatever features were coded before the devs got sacked, or

 

2) It will be a buggy "re-imagined" product from an over-worked US dev team that will probably retain little of what users thought was important in the original software, or

 

3) They'll rebrand an iPad app with the Sibelius name.

[MikeRivers]

 

Avid's side: Avid

[A. Einstein]

There is not one notation software which transcodes a bunch of MIDI tracks to readable music notation at the click of one button, nor are the recording features of Finale, nor Sibelius capable to do so.

 

 

Music notation works with a precision about like that:

 

 

English original composition:

 

There is not one notation software which transcodes a bunch of MIDI tracks to readable music notation at the click of one button, nor are the recording features of Finale, nor Sibelius capable to do so.

 

 

Google notation in Mandarin:

 

????????????MIDI???????????????????????????????????????

 

 

The composition printed for the Shanghai Studio orchestra without redacted by a copyist:

 

A notation software transcoding a bunch of MIDI tracks at the click of a button-readable music, nor is it the final recording function, and also has the ability to do so Sibelius.

[Anderton]

There is not one notation software which transcodes a bunch of MIDI tracks to readable music notation at the click of one bitton, nit are the recoding features of Finale,not Sibelius capable to do so. Music notation works with a precision about like that: English original composition: There is not one notation software which transcodes a bunch of MIDI tracks to readable music notation at the click of one button, nor are the recording features of Finale, nor Sibelius capable to do so. Google notation in Mandarin: ????????????MIDI??????????????????????????????????????? The composition printed for the Shanghai Studio orchestra without redacted by a copyist: A notation software transcoding a bunch of MIDI tracks at the click of a button-readable music, nor is it the final recording function, and also has the ability to do so Sibelius.

 

 

It's because of posts like that I don't perma-ban you :)

 

I don't use notation much, but needed to create lead sheets from some MIDI music I created. It had my usual collection of expressiveness tricks with note-shifting and the like. Well, notation apparently doesn't have a symbol for "16 ticks before the beat to add tension" so the notation ended up looking like it was created by third-grade monkeys with access to a random collection of musical symbols.

 

So I ended up stripping down the MIDI file to basics, and it worked much better.

 

Speaking of notation...does anyone here use Notion? What do you think of it?

[A. Einstein]

It's because of posts like that I don't perma-ban you :)

 

I prefer to be banned from time to time when the cocktails are on you, also gives me a feeling of importance which I do not have at home where I am only the old sack cash cow, and out of pure joy that you directed a few words at me, I corrected the typos

[Anderton]

I prefer to be banned from time to time when the cocktails are on you, also gives me a feeling of importance which I do not have at home where I am only the old sack cash cow, and out of pure joy that you directed a few words at me, I corrected the typos

 

Another reason

 

I know you look forward to the occasional bans so you can sit back and relax, without the tension and drama of participation in the HC forums. But please, don't mention that with bans, cocktails are on me. Otherwise people will start doing what they can to be banned just for the free cocktails.

 

Oh and by the way, per your request I've now learned how to make a great mojito

[electrochrisso]

 

Speaking of notation...does anyone here use Notion? What do you think of it?

 

No, I am not a notation kind of guy, would be far too a restrictive process for getting my creative and inspirational juices working.

[A. Einstein]

I don't think notating music is a craft a pop or rock musician should know, taking notes as songwriter do, is more then enough, actually when someone can't memorize a simple song in a few minutes, then he is in the wrong job

 

it is indeed that most pop musician who are in command of music notation sound somewhat funny, eventually because they start to stretch their naive art into some other more complex genres, the skill of notation also has some side effects for eaxmple you learn more about harmony and get an extended practical knowledge about rhythm...

 

music notation is mainly a skill for composers, and there is no sense in writting down a pop song in precise notation

[electrochrisso]

 

music notation is mainly a skill for composers, and there is no sense in writting down a pop song in precise notation

 

It would be if it is intended to sound the same every time it is played, by a selected set of musicians, but for the more inspired type music such as jazz or bluegrass, where the inspiration of the musicians moulds the form of the song, so will never sound exactly the same the next time played, either by the same musicians or a different set, although the basic structure/progression of the piece can be notated.