Members temnov Posted August 5, 2012 Members Share Posted August 5, 2012 Just curious if anybody uses outboard hardware like compressors and EQ, etc with your DAW of choice. How many channels do you use? How do you deal with latency? Any "negative latency" experience? Will be good to know some workarounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted August 5, 2012 Members Share Posted August 5, 2012 # channels: depends on the effect. For bouncing stems through tape, I use 4. Mostly 1 or 2 otherwise. latency: I always run a click track through the loop and measure latency before starting. Then, if necessary, I slide the newly recorded tracks that amount. (I usually don't do this for outboard echo or reverb.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members temnov Posted August 5, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 5, 2012 Sorry, I should say "if anybody uses outboard hardware like compressors and EQ, etc with your DAW of choice for mixing". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted August 5, 2012 Members Share Posted August 5, 2012 Sorry, I should say "if anybody uses outboard hardware like compressors and EQ, etc with your DAW of choice for mixing". Yes, I do that when I want a specific sound available only thru a particular hardware processor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted August 6, 2012 Members Share Posted August 6, 2012 Just curious if anybody uses outboard hardware like compressors and EQ, etc with your DAW of choice. How many channels do you use? How do you deal with latency? Any "negative latency" experience? Will be good to know some workarounds I use two stereo compressors (4 channels total) all the time, particularly while tracking. I use a hardware reverb, the TC Electronic M300, as well as an Alesis Quadraverb, a bunch of great sounding full-frequency pedals (particularly the Pigtronix Echolution analog delay pedal and the Strymon BlueSky Reverb), and a Korg MS-20 patchbay analog synth as outboard gear with my DAW. I haven't had any latency issues so far, and latency issues are a non-issue when using a reverb or delay anyway, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members temnov Posted August 6, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 6, 2012 Thanks Ken and Albert. The reason I asked these question is I run in couple of issues. My DAW is Cubase 6.5. When I use my outboard hardware Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted August 6, 2012 Members Share Posted August 6, 2012 I haven't measured any of this, but simply haven't perceived any issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members veracohr Posted August 6, 2012 Members Share Posted August 6, 2012 I don't run anything OUT of my DAW, through a processor, then back IN to the DAW. I do sometimes use a RNC with my hardware synths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members temnov Posted August 6, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 6, 2012 I haven't measured any of this, but simply haven't perceived any issues. Well, I did, especially on drums. Are you on Pro Tools, Ken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted August 6, 2012 Members Share Posted August 6, 2012 Yup, PT 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted August 6, 2012 Members Share Posted August 6, 2012 often I run a track, or a finished mix thru a null patch of an old Lexicon reverberator, analog IN to the Lexicon and digital OUT back to the hard drive, gives a string section a silky character Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members roomjello Posted August 7, 2012 Members Share Posted August 7, 2012 If you convert it back to analog there will be latency which you should compensate for.You have to test, as mentioned, even digital devices though, if you run signals out through adat or spdif etc.Different converters have different latencies, as do different sample rates obviously. Short small reverbs do require that you consider compensation as you can get cancellation or a change in character with latency. I find the most efficient and 'least disturbing to work flow' method for hardware insert work is to have all the latencies worked out per piece of gear or possible combination so you can look at what your path is, add up the latency and preset the track before it goes out with a slide or with something like Voxengo's latency delay plug, then run it out to the hardware. This allows you to monitor your changes against the other tracks in context and doesn't slow you down with too much thinking when you are mixing. If a tape machine is not digitally controlled your latency will vary too much to use for proper phase coherence.So on drums for example you couldn't just run the toms out to tape and bring them back in and expect the same phase relationship with the overheads from the start to end of tune.But for a track on it's own with no bleed its not an issue, just get it with in a few samples. Oh and regarding the auto sample compensation in the host DAW, i wouldn't trust it.Sonars is a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted August 7, 2012 Members Share Posted August 7, 2012 the processing latency of the external processors I use where measured once, and apart from that you see the delay in the timeline, and even more: move it until it sounds right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zooey Posted August 7, 2012 Members Share Posted August 7, 2012 If you have "negative latency," there are only two possible explanations. First, you have somehow managed to violate the laws of physics by recording an event before it even happens. Second, a software setting is incorrect. It sounds to me like Cubase has automatic latency compensation, and it is overestimating the amount of latency introduced by a round trip through your converters. I don't know how to adjust that in Cubase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted August 7, 2012 Members Share Posted August 7, 2012 Turn the automation off. Use your ears and the tracks and audio editor to align in time. The Lexicon when used as external processor in the box, has a dealay of 100 ms from analog in to be recorded back on the hard drive. Analog processors a delay in the fractions of a lightyear, in other words anything delayed is in your computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted August 7, 2012 Members Share Posted August 7, 2012 If you have "negative latency," there are only two possible explanations. First, you have somehow managed to violate the laws of physics by recording an event before it even happens. Recording an event before it happen. for that we have a Hindu engineer specialized in that. As much as I know, he does it after the physics fact, and when the song has a lot of hairs he uses some secret hirsutism, or simply moves the track to the left as we all profane do. We also assume he uses some top secret Shiva technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted August 7, 2012 Members Share Posted August 7, 2012 Well, I have an Apogee Duet 2 as my interface but all analog signals first pass through two Avalon 737s on the way in. Once a signal is ITB, it pretty much stays there until the mix is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members temnov Posted August 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 7, 2012 Thanks everybody for sharing your experience. It's resolved. Roomjello actually discribed very well how you deal with it. I talked to RME rep in USA yesterday and he confirmed that this is well known issue with Cubase and RME. First, you have somehow managed to violate the laws of physics by recording an event before it even happens That will be really cool to violate the laws of physics Negative latency or negative delay however is very real, especially when you use several OTBs. Check here if you'd like to know more or going to use hardware as inserts out and in of your DAW: http://www.rme-audio.de/forum/viewtopic.php?id=12103 https://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=106081 Anyway, it's working as it should be now. I guess we are not there yet, in ideal ITB/OTB world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 I guess we are not there yet, in ideal ITB/OTB world. Well, we are but you`re not in that dimension... obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members temnov Posted August 8, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 Kind of here.. It works for me now. 8 outboards are enough until.. I donno.. maybe.. do I need this? or that? aahrr..OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 Well, we are but you`re not in that dimension... obviously. well, I miss one feature in the digital audio production software I am using most, when I need that one feature I have to change to another digital audio production software Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members temnov Posted August 8, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 well, I miss one feature in the digital audio production software I am using most And this feature is? Honestly, with all these debates otb/itb (on gearslutz) I think it's a personal business what is most comfortable way for somebody to mix or record. I started all analog, and then went all itb and now it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 The feature I miss in Nuendo is: Adjust Tempo by Selection and Locator very important when you make film music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 I think it's a personal business what is most comfortable way for somebody to mix or record. For me not. The most effective software is the one you get more work done in less time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 I use inserts sometimes but I also use interface I/O to create feedback loops. For example, for doing really long looper effects, I create a bus with series delays set to delay sound only so I can get 12-16 seconds of delay. The bus out patches back to an input, which has a send to that bus. It allows for really long loops, with the bus level determining feedback. The only issue is that if you sync delay to tempo, eventually the audio will drift because of the latency. Even with a relatively low round-trip latency like 5ms, it adds up...after 10 loops, you're off by 50 milliseconds. So I use a metronome for the first and second pass, enough to establish a rhythm with the playing, then mute the metronome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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