Electronic clap sound

[Folder]

In the "Artists Who Cheesed Out" thread, some of the talk centered around some so called cheesy production techniques.

 

There are a lot of people who can't stand the sound of the "DX7 Rhodes patch" or those "large reverb gated snares" or the "high clicky bass drums" that were big in the 80's. Those sounds were pretty popular in their time but they've now been relegated to the musical dust bins of history. I think for many people they signify a time when musical trendiness became almost as important as musical quality and a lot of music from that time period now sounds pretty dated.

 

But there's one sound that not only doesn't seem to be going away any time soon, it seems to be getting more and more popular.

 

The cheesy "electronic clap sound" (and it's cheap little cousin the "electronic finger snap sound") is all over the radio and television these days and seems to have pretty much replaced the snare drum in some types of music.

 

It seems that most hip-hop and R&B music I hear today has this sound in it. A lot of radio and TV advertisements have this sound. I also hear it in a whole lot of production music. Shows like Entertainment Tonight and all those reality type TV shows where they play lots of short 20 and 30 second clips of music in the background are all full of clap samples.

 

I'm also now hearing it in styles of music I never used to hear it in. Dynamic music with real live musicians. I've heard country type music with banjos and acoustic guitars, jazz and even orchestral music that have no actual snare drum but have clap samples instead.

 

Personally I think this sound is incredibly unnatural and artificial sounding and it's ruined some music for me that I might otherwise find enjoyable. Even non-musician friends of mine who know nothing about music production have commented to me about this sound. All of them hate it.

 

I remember hearing songs in the 80's that had clap samples in them. One of the first songs that I remember that featured this sound prominently was Billy Idol's "Eyes Without a Face.

 

When drum machines first came out most of them had a clap sample in them. My first drum machine (Yamaha RX15) had a clap sample. I know I used it on at least one song that I recorded, but I used in a counter rhythm part way in the background. It would have never occured to me to use in place of the snare drum.

 

The only thing I can figure is that we have now entered an era in which most commerical music is being made by music producers that have never played in a real band situation so they don't have any idea of what a real drummer is supposed to sound like. (I also hear a lot of really whacked out unatural hi-hat patterns in a lot of today's music. Some things a real drummer wouldn't and couldn't likely play)

 

For me and a lot of people of my age group I believe that we have been conditioned to want to hear the sound of a real snare drum. Even if it's just a sample of a real snare drum there is something about it that just sounds right to my ears.

 

So how did the electronic clap sound become so popular? When did it become the defacto R&B snare drum replacement sound? Have any of y'all ever used the clap sample? Do any of y'all ever use it in place of a snare drum? Who likes it and who dosen't like it?

[A. Einstein]

people who call a clap sound cheesy

 

have nothing lost in pop music production !!!!

[A. Einstein]

this people have not only lost nothing in pop, but also do not deserve an Er Nai

 

 

http://www.huiduenglish.com/opinion/er-nai.html

[Lee Knight]

Angelo, your insight is once again astounding. hmm

 

 

Hand claps. I absolutely hear you on this one, Folder. Just about every good to great R & B singer comes out and I can't listen because of that. I'll hear Neyo, John Legend and the 90's Craig David do some live thing on BET/VH1 etc, and I'm digging it. Then I hear the production and clack!

 

However, these old rock and pop ears are finally getting accustomed to the sound. I look at them like fuzz guitar. FUZZY guitar. It has a lot of associations that comes with its use. Right? I was a little toehead (see avatar) when I first heard Satisfaction or Live For Today. When I now hear a cheezy fuzz, I love it and get the reason for its use or quote or reference.

 

I was not a fan of hip hop in the 80's. I was busy being a white skinny tied new waver. With some exceptions. But all those kids hearing the block parties of 1970's New York City, and then all the waves of influence from those early machines and their use, that sound is like Woody Guthrie's guitar or John and Paul singing yeah yeah yeah oooo!

 

Once it struck me a few years ago that the sound being used was out of choice and not a lazy substitute, I then began to appreciate its aesthetic.

 

From the 808 into the MPC and beyond I assume, but that history is beyond me. I'd love to know the lineage.

[daklander]

FUZZY guitar.

[A. Einstein]

I have handclaps from all over the world, from South Africa to Papua New Guinea, but the long way around the globe

[Vito Corleone]

My understand of the history of the 808 is that its cheezy and unrealistic analog sounds led to the machine being abandoned by 'real' musicians after the advent of the Linn machine and therefore used 808s were available for next-to-nothing in the mid 80s and cash-poor rappers and street musicians gladly snapped them up and it eventually found its way onto recordings.

 

Proving once again that real art isn't about the tools.

[blue2blue]

In the "Artists Who Cheesed Out" thread, some of the talk centered around some so called cheesy production techniques. There are a lot of people who can't stand the sound of the "DX7 Rhodes patch" or those "large reverb gated snares" or the "high clicky bass drums" that were big in the 80's. Those sounds were pretty popular in their time but they've now been relegated to the musical dust bins of history. I think for many people they signify a time when musical trendiness became almost as important as musical quality and a lot of music from that time period now sounds pretty dated. But there's one sound that not only doesn't seem to be going away any time soon, it seems to be getting more and more popular. The cheesy "electronic clap sound" (and it's cheap little cousin the "electronic finger snap sound") is all over the radio and television these days and seems to have pretty much replaced the snare drum in some types of music. It seems that most hip-hop and R&B music I hear today has this sound in it. A lot of radio and TV advertisements have this sound. I also hear it in a whole lot of production music. Shows like Entertainment Tonight and all those reality type TV shows where they play lots of short 20 and 30 second clips of music in the background are all full of clap samples. I'm also now hearing it in styles of music I never used to hear it in. Dynamic music with real live musicians. I've heard country type music with banjos and acoustic guitars, jazz and even orchestral music that have no actual snare drum but have clap samples instead. Personally I think this sound is incredibly unnatural and artificial sounding and it's ruined some music for me that I might otherwise find enjoyable. Even non-musician friends of mine who know nothing about music production have commented to me about this sound. All of them hate it. I remember hearing songs in the 80's that had clap samples in them. One of the first songs that I remember that featured this sound prominently was Billy Idol's "Eyes Without a Face. When drum machines first came out most of them had a clap sample in them. My first drum machine (Yamaha RX15) had a clap sample. I know I used it on at least one song that I recorded, but I used in a counter rhythm part way in the background. It would have never occured to me to use in place of the snare drum. The only thing I can figure is that we have now entered an era in which most commerical music is being made by music producers that have never played in a real band situation so they don't have any idea of what a real drummer is supposed to sound like. (I also hear a lot of really whacked out unatural hi-hat patterns in a lot of today's music. Some things a real drummer wouldn't and couldn't likely play) For me and a lot of people of my age group I believe that we have been conditioned to want to hear the sound of a real snare drum. Even if it's just a sample of a real snare drum there is something about it that just sounds right to my ears. So how did the electronic clap sound become so popular? When did it become the defacto R&B snare drum replacement sound? Have any of y'all ever used the clap sample? Do any of y'all ever use it in place of a snare drum? Who likes it and who dosen't like it?

Remember syn-drums?

 

They were actually mixed out in a number of re-releases of late 70s stuff in subsequent years.

 

The classic hollow robo-clap sound is a part of the classic '808 palette. It is a classic sound.

 

 

 

 

Like it or not.

[blue2blue]

 

My understand of the history of the 808 is that its cheezy and unrealistic analog sounds led to the machine being abandoned by 'real' musicians after the advent of the Linn machine and therefore used 808s were available for next-to-nothing in the mid 80s and cash-poor rappers and street musicians gladly snapped them up and it eventually found its way onto recordings. Proving once again that real art isn't about the tools.

They were expensive when they were new, of course, but still less than half the price of a Linn Drum. And the Linn Drums, of course, sounded entirely fake in their own way (and, of course, had hideous cymbals, famously).

 

The '808 family of sounds was adopted by people who embraced its fakeness and reveled in it.

[BlueGreene]

Some of my favorite electronic producers regularly use claps, snaps, clicks, pops and snares -- all for the snare hit. Often, they'll layer a snare and a clap (or some combination - and often rotating combinations hit to hit). Makes for a very fat and dynamic snare sound. That's almost part of the electronic aesthetic -- experimenting with sounds so it's not the same EXACT sound on the 2 and 4 for an entire album or more!

 

WARNING: Clap/snare snare content.

[video=youtube;bwa-uQPdIKY]

[techristian]

Everything done "tastefully" can be used, but some things were overdone. 1/8th note claps weren't cool. If they went on through the whole song, they would also get abnoxious.

 

Dan

[Vito Corleone]

 

They were expensive when they were new, of course, but still less than half the price of a Linn Drum. And the Linn Drums, of course, sounded entirely fake in their own way (and, of course, had hideous cymbals, famously).

 

 

Yes, but I distinctly remember being blown away by the Linn drum sounds when they first came out. They were a huge leap forward and pretty much the first electronic drum sounds that even approached "realisitic". Before that was, as you mentioned, "Syn drums". I played with a drummer who had a couple of syn drum pads in the late 70s/early 80s and we hideously over-used them at the time. The sound of which are still stuck in my head to this day. "Booda-boo!"

 

I didn't know they were mixed-out of some re-releases. That's funny and very interesting. Do you know of any specific examples?

 

But 808s became a joke among "real" musicians and out of favor pretty quickly. I remember having a small Yamaha drum machine that I must have picked up around '85 that sounded very good and very real and couldn't have been more than a couple of hundred dollars brand new (or I wouldn't have been able to buy it.) By that time an 808 at a pawn shop could probably be had for well under $100 I would imagine.

[A. Einstein]

 

Proving once again that real art isn't about the tools.

 

 

you start talking like that painter who didn't use a brush, or that conductor who didn't had an orchestra

[blue2blue]

 

Yes, but I distinctly remember being blown away by the Linn drum sounds when they first came out. They were a huge leap forward and pretty much the first electronic drum sounds that even approached "realisitic". Before that was, as you mentioned, "Syn drums". I played with a drummer who had a couple of syn drum pads in the late 70s/early 80s and we hideously over-used them at the time. The sound of which are still stuck in my head to this day. "Booda-boo!" I didn't know they were mixed-out of some re-releases. That's funny and very interesting. Do you know of any specific examples? But 808s became a joke among "real" musicians and out of favor pretty quickly. I remember having a small Yamaha drum machine that I must have picked up around '85 that sounded very good and very real and couldn't have been more than a couple of hundred dollars brand new (or I wouldn't have been able to buy it.) By that time an 808 at a pawn shop could probably be had for well under $100 I would imagine.

Oh, absolutely. But after you heard a few Peter Gabriel albums, you had that sonic signature locked in your head. Plus, they had that late 70s super-sterile studio drum sound. And the cymbals really were just awful.

 

Before that, Roland had owned the drum machine market -- an outgrowth of the home organ market -- for some years, as I recall. But I think Thomas may have made an outboard drum machine box, as well. Although it may have been made to proprietorially only fit with their organs. It's hazy. Back in the 70s, I was actually living life. (I only got serious about going through a community college recording program when a clumsy driver t-boned me and put me in the hospital for a couple months, and on a walker and crutches for 6 months and a cane for 5 years.)

[Vito Corleone]

 

you start talking like that painter who didn't use a brush, or that conductor who didn't had an orchestra

 

 

Van Gogh's paintings would have been just as artistic whether he used the highest quality brush on the market or one he made himself from the hairs of a dead rat.

[A. Einstein]

didn't knew peter Gabriel uses cymbals

 

I only can give the important recommendation, take those metal plates away from the drummer and tell him to play the drums

[A. Einstein]

 

Van Gogh's paintings would have been just as artistic whether he used the highest quality brush on the market or one he made himself from the hairs of a dead rat.

 

 

well, I usually never say this, but here I must for the first time in my life.

 

what art is depends on the taste, education niveau and more often then not on the snobism of the the person's perception

[Vito Corleone]

 

what art is depends on the taste, education niveau and more often then not on the snobism of the the person's perception

 

 

True. Which is why I said Van Gogh's work would have been "just as" artistic. I made no comment as to whether I, or you, or anyone else believed it actually was or not.

 

Just that whatever artistic merit it has is not dependant upon the tools.

[Zooey]

 

Some of my favorite electronic producers regularly use claps, snaps, clicks, pops and snares -- all for the snare hit. Often, they'll layer a snare and a clap (or some combination - and often rotating combinations hit to hit).

 

 

It's still big in hip hop, too. Using a clap for a snare (sometimes layered with snaps, shaker, or other percussion) leaves a lot of room for kick and other instrumentation.

 

[video=youtube;hbJAPwrrjek]

[Folder]

I remember having a small Yamaha drum machine that I must have picked up around '85 that sounded very good and very real and couldn't have been more than a couple of hundred dollars brand new (or I wouldn't have been able to buy it.)

 

I paid $425 for my Yamaha RX15 at Rhythm City in 1986 after talking the guy down from $450. (those were the days when musical equipment prices were negotiable).

 

I remember the sales guy being really perturbed because I insisted on listening to all the drum machines they had in stock. I wanted the one that I thought sounded the most realistic. It was a toss up between the Yamaha and the Roland but I now realise that I made the right choice. The Yamaha sounded better for rock music. I think it sounded a lot like the original Linn Drum but was much cheaper.

 

The owner of Rhythm City would stand at the door and size you up before he would let you in. Young, long haired, scruffy looking guys would routinely be denied entry. The guitars hung on a wall behind a waist high fence. If you were tall like me, and could bend over the fence far enough you just might be able to grab one off the wall.

 

That day I also bought a Tascam 244 four track cassette and a Rockman X100. I'll never forget the look on their faces when I pulled out my wallet and had about $1500 in cash.

 

All of a sudden they wanted to show me everything in the store.

[Lee Knight]

I too bought the RX15 for that same reason. !!! The Shakers sounded good too if I recall.

[Folder]

 

 

 

Stuff like that is the main reason I and most of my friends have really grown to hate the clap sound.

 

We see it as being associated with immorality.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Stuff like that is the main reason I and most of my friends have really grown to hate the clap sound. We see it as being associated with immorality.

 

 

I'm pretty sure the same thing has been said about distorted electric guitar.

[Hard Truth]

 

I paid $425 for my Yamaha RX15 at Rhythm City in 1986 after talking the guy down from $450. (those were the days when musical equipment prices were negotiable). I remember the sales guy being really perturbed because I insisted on listening to all the drum machines they had in stock. I wanted the one that I thought sounded the most realistic. It was a toss up between the Yamaha and the Roland but I now realise that I made the right choice. The Yamaha sounded better for rock music. I think it sounded a lot like the original Linn Drum but was much cheaper.

 

 

I went through a similar process at roughly the same time. I bought the relatively obscure Sequential Circuits Tom drum machine which allowed you to add cartridges for eight more sounds. It was the most realistic sound I could afford. It changed my life by ending my dependence on a very unreliable drummer.

[A. Einstein]

but recently sample an old drum machine very carefully, and those sample are the killer for the dance stuff this autumn season