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  • Does the internet unite or fragment ?

    Does the internet unite or fragment ?



    Who would have thought that we could have so many niche groups and forums? My daughter goes to anime forums. I go to tech forums, FTA forums and political forums. My wife goes to Figure Skating forums, and more specifically "adult" figure skating forums where many on the skaters took up the sport later in life.



    Now there are cooking forums, but not JUST cooking forums. You can find a PIZZA cooking forum, but even better than that a Wood Fire Oven pizza forum !



    I can even find a forum for 30 year old C64 technology, and weird "chip music".



    So even though my daughter is into video production, and has a degree, I can't get her to come here. My wife likes figure skating but also edits music for figure skating, and she isn't interested in this either.



    The point being that this seems to fragment rather than unite, because there are sub groups within sub groups.



    It is just a thought.



    And ,of course, while we are spending time here, we are not spending REAL time with friends and family.



    Dan Laskowski
    http://musicinit.com/fastfingers.php An Experiment in 80's Technology

    http://youtube.com/techristian My YOUTUBE channel
    Music videos at http://musicinit.com/video.php

  • #2
    Does the internet unite or fragment ?



    Let me be the first to answer, yes.
    .

    music and social links | recent listening

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    • #3
      And, of course, by that, I meant that both processes happen at different times -- and sometimes simultaneously within larger cohorts.



      Like you, Dan, I've been online since the old dial-up BB days. For years, I think the online BBs (which the SSS has its roots in, IIRC) helped, overall, to connect and unify the community of recordists -- particularly project studio and home recordists who tended to be more isolated, typically doing all their own engineering and, as a consequence, mostly only interacting with clients. (God love 'em.) Coming up as a freelancer in the 80s, I had plenty of opportunities to talk at length with other engineers and producers. (I wore both hats -- typically at the same time when others chose the studios, since many of the house engineers at those studios failed to impress; when I'd choose the studio, I'd always chose one where I knew the engineer was better than me. )





      But... that was then... eh?



      Now, with both the 80s/90s explosion in affordable all-in-one recorders as well as the huge influx of desktop recordists and producers from the late 90s forward, the overall scene is very different.



      And nowhere is that more obvious than a place like Gearslutz, which, at one time, was mostly oriented to professional recordists and project studio owners but, which, over the course of the 00's, saw that huge influx of newb recordists and producers. What started out as a scene marked by generosity and a certain amount of inclusiveness evolved, over the decade, into pockets of like minds and experience. There's still a certain momentum that keeps some people trying to offer help or suggestions -- but there is also -- perhaps quite naturally -- an apparent exhaustion of patience among many of those subcultures with each other.



      For instance, there are recurring 'thread rumbles' that typically start with one of the Gearslutz 'eternal questions' -- Mac or PC, analog tape or digital, outboard summing, full mix or DAW, personal perception or measurement, science or mystification, etc. These things are cyclic and predictable. (Despite the fact that their vBulletin system has been heavily customized to include an automatic similar-topic search that occurs before one can start a new thread... yet, over and over, folks will just post Mac or PC or Analog v. Digital, etc, threads anyhow, as though it had never been discussed before.)

      A lot of people who used to be quite generous with help and answers have, over the years, become cynical and dismissive of the perceived widespread ignorance there and the lack of logical or other analytical abilities -- and that schism has meant that older, wiser voices have decreasingly informed some of these discussion, meaning that the blind are often leading the blind. I've read some threads and seen as many as 10 or 12 posts in a row that show an utterly profound ignorance of the technology -- but worse, demonstrate no practical ability on the part of these individuals to think themselves out of the audio equivalent of a wet paper bag.







      [When I wrote the above and tried posting it the first time, for some reason, it showed up displaying as raw HTML code -- however, it wasn't straight HTML -- or it would have displayed as normal. At any rate, I copied the code into a text file, named it with an .html suffix, opened it in Firefox (because Chrome's copy doesn't capture and transmit formatting codes when pasting into vB but Firefox does) and copied the now-properly formatted text into this post (above). Weird. Is this happening to anyone else? It's the only time it's happened to me. So far...]
      .

      music and social links | recent listening

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      • #5
        Train jumper.
        .

        music and social links | recent listening

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        • #6
          I would also answer....Yes!



          Without the internet, and by that I mean the people on it. I would most certainly not have worked out, or have help working out, some of the 'things' I've needed to know through the years. Back in

          my programming days, and the newly formed web, there was a helpful and generally informative group no matter where you went.



          I would agree with Blue2Blue, it's become very crowded now with everyone purporting to be an 'expert'......however, the advantage of having been around a bit is that I tend to pre-filter and try to analyse what I read and make up an opinion based on what 'facts' I can get my hands on.



          I can also see why the guru's on any forum would get very tired of the constant flame wars, lack of appreciation for their knowledge and general lack of respect that the internet now seems to foster.



          Maybe I'm just getting old and grumpy....hahaha!
          Member of the SG army
          www.skidmorebandpdx.com

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          • #7






            Quote Originally Posted by blue2blue
            View Post

            Train jumper.




            I am. I should also point out that I try and dress like you and go to the same clubs.
            Ken Lee on 500px / Ken's Photo Store / Ken Lee Photography Facebook Website / Blueberry Buddha Studios / Ajanta Palace Houseboat - Kashmir / Hotel Green View - Kashmir / Eleven Shadows website / Ken Lee Photography Blog / Akai 12-track tape transfers / MY NEW ALBUM! The Mercury Seven

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            • #8






              Quote Originally Posted by SoundMuppet
              View Post

              I would agree with Blue2Blue, it's become very crowded now with everyone purporting to be an 'expert'......however, the advantage of having been around a bit is that I tend to pre-filter and try to analyse what I read and make up an opinion based on what 'facts' I can get my hands on.



              I can also see why the guru's on any forum would get very tired of the constant flame wars, lack of appreciation for their knowledge and general lack of respect that the internet now seems to foster.




              As someone who purports to be an expert on everything, I can assure you that I'm weathering the constant flame wars, lack of appreciation for my knowledge, and general lack of respect quite well. I do thank you for your concern.







              Ken Lee on 500px / Ken's Photo Store / Ken Lee Photography Facebook Website / Blueberry Buddha Studios / Ajanta Palace Houseboat - Kashmir / Hotel Green View - Kashmir / Eleven Shadows website / Ken Lee Photography Blog / Akai 12-track tape transfers / MY NEW ALBUM! The Mercury Seven

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              • #9






                Quote Originally Posted by techristian
                View Post

                The point being that this seems to fragment rather than unite, because there are sub groups within sub groups.




                Do you see this as problematic?



                Do you feel that these sub groups draw people together?



                Do you feel that the tendency to hang out based on common interests mirrors real life?



                Just curious. At any rate, let me be the third to answer.



                Yes.
                Ken Lee on 500px / Ken's Photo Store / Ken Lee Photography Facebook Website / Blueberry Buddha Studios / Ajanta Palace Houseboat - Kashmir / Hotel Green View - Kashmir / Eleven Shadows website / Ken Lee Photography Blog / Akai 12-track tape transfers / MY NEW ALBUM! The Mercury Seven

                Comment


                • #10
                  In the early middle ages basically everyone was either a farmer, a farm laborer, or nobility. Improvements in governance and food production meant excess food. This in turn led to increasing specialization and the growth of towns full of people who did things other than farm. I imagine the self-sorting of people by narrow interest in online groups is continued social evolution along the same path. It's dependent on the amazing abundance offered to us by modern industry and economy and their efficient (some might say ruthless) exploitation of our natural resources. Enjoy it while it lasts; we are fortunate to live in a time of great wealth, where much time is spent in pursuit of minute knowledge and skills (such as the mastery of cooking wood-fired brick oven pizza.)
                  Silk City Music Factory: A Connecticut Recording Studio

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                  • #11
                    My first thought was already expressed by Blue2blue and UstadKhanAli. The availability of information can and does both unite and fragment (IMHO.) To a certain extent I also think it does help create "experts" some real and some not. For example, I am amazed at the quality of help I can get from musicians and photographers....everything from software/hardware/computer issues to making software do XY or Z to getting opinions and help on the "artistic" side of my music or photos. Most of these people are not "official" experts...ie professionals, they are users and gifted amateurs. Twenty years ago this type of help would have been much more difficult to get. It would have entailed hiring a consultant, going to classes or lots of reading. I think the internet has improved my knowledge and skill of numerous topics such as music, photography, travel, literature and history. It has helped greatly in "sub areas" such as packing light when I travel. I've had 7-8 people, friends from work or elsewhere and 2 people from work I didn't know before they contacted me, ask for help packing for international trips. Okay, I've been to a seminar on packing and also travel for 3-4 weeks every year so I have some experience....but I also learn a lot about packing and travel products from the net. Am I an expert? Apparently some people seem to think so, it isn't for me to judge. So I think the net unites and divides. I go to boards (using photography as an example) about technique in photography, getting critical feedback about my photos, about Sony cameras, about new camera equipment, about travel photography and about using Lightroom, PaintShopPro, Topaz and Nik Plug ins. It is all good. I suppose the question for me is: How are we using the internet? I like to feel I use it reasonably, but I've seen my share of flamers and very divisive people....not to mention sub groups hard for me to identify with....skinheads, haters etc. Is all of the internet "data mining" good? I suppose time will tell.

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                    • #12






                      Quote Originally Posted by SoundMuppet
                      View Post

                      I would also answer....Yes!



                      Without the internet, and by that I mean the people on it. I would most certainly not have worked out, or have help working out, some of the 'things' I've needed to know through the years. Back in

                      my programming days, and the newly formed web, there was a helpful and generally informative group no matter where you went.



                      I would agree with Blue2Blue, it's become very crowded now with everyone purporting to be an 'expert'......however, the advantage of having been around a bit is that I tend to pre-filter and try to analyse what I read and make up an opinion based on what 'facts' I can get my hands on.



                      I can also see why the guru's on any forum would get very tired of the constant flame wars, lack of appreciation for their knowledge and general lack of respect that the internet now seems to foster.



                      Maybe I'm just getting old and grumpy....hahaha!




                      Old and grumpy is the process, to be sure.



                      To some extent, of course, it's natural. But in the past, their were more social barriers between the newbs and the world-weary pros and, to some extent, they found their own level.



                      Now, someone says, hey, I found this great forum where all the pros hang out and next thing you know it's "What preamp should I use to sound like Skrillex?"
                      .

                      music and social links | recent listening

                      Comment


                      • #13






                        Quote Originally Posted by SoundMuppet
                        View Post

                        I would also answer....Yes!



                        Without the internet, and by that I mean the people on it. I would most certainly not have worked out, or have help working out, some of the 'things' I've needed to know through the years. Back in

                        my programming days, and the newly formed web, there was a helpful and generally informative group no matter where you went.



                        I would agree with Blue2Blue, it's become very crowded now with everyone purporting to be an 'expert'......however, the advantage of having been around a bit is that I tend to pre-filter and try to analyse what I read and make up an opinion based on what 'facts' I can get my hands on.



                        I can also see why the guru's on any forum would get very tired of the constant flame wars, lack of appreciation for their knowledge and general lack of respect that the internet now seems to foster.



                        Maybe I'm just getting old and grumpy....hahaha!




                        Old and grumpy is the process, to be sure.



                        To some extent, of course, it's natural. But in the past, their were more social barriers between the newbs and the world-weary pros and, to some extent, they found their own level.



                        Now, someone says, hey, I found this great forum where all the pros hang out and next thing you know it's "What preamp should I use to sound like Skrillex?"
                        .

                        music and social links | recent listening

                        Comment


                        • #14






                          Quote Originally Posted by blue2blue
                          View Post

                          Now, someone says, hey, I found this great forum where all the pros hang out and next thing you know it's "What preamp should I use to sound like Skrillex?"




                          Now you're just being silly. Skrillex doesn't use microphones!
                          Ken Lee on 500px / Ken's Photo Store / Ken Lee Photography Facebook Website / Blueberry Buddha Studios / Ajanta Palace Houseboat - Kashmir / Hotel Green View - Kashmir / Eleven Shadows website / Ken Lee Photography Blog / Akai 12-track tape transfers / MY NEW ALBUM! The Mercury Seven

                          Comment


                          • #15






                            Quote Originally Posted by Philter
                            View Post

                            In the early middle ages basically everyone was either a farmer, a farm laborer, or nobility. Improvements in governance and food production meant excess food. This in turn led to increasing specialization and the growth of towns full of people who did things other than farm. I imagine the self-sorting of people by narrow interest in online groups is continued social evolution along the same path. It's dependent on the amazing abundance offered to us by modern industry and economy and their efficient (some might say ruthless) exploitation of our natural resources. Enjoy it while it lasts; we are fortunate to live in a time of great wealth, where much time is spent in pursuit of minute knowledge and skills (such as the mastery of cooking wood-fired brick oven pizza.)




                            Great point.



                            And we also should point out that there are billions (not millions, but billions) of people who do not have these luxuries that we discuss, in our own countries or others. To be able to discuss such specific things on internet forums is an indicator of extra time and disposable income, after all, as you point out.



                            But never mind all that. Wood-fired brick oven pizza? What time is dinner?
                            Ken Lee on 500px / Ken's Photo Store / Ken Lee Photography Facebook Website / Blueberry Buddha Studios / Ajanta Palace Houseboat - Kashmir / Hotel Green View - Kashmir / Eleven Shadows website / Ken Lee Photography Blog / Akai 12-track tape transfers / MY NEW ALBUM! The Mercury Seven

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