Members Anderton Posted November 28, 2012 Members Share Posted November 28, 2012 Saw this link in the latest Lefsetz newsletter; the link mostly is about "blockbuster" albums that busted instead of blocked:http://music.yahoo.com/blogs/chart-w...173216096.htmlThis is the quote that caught my eye, but it's not an isolated incident:The Rolling Stones' GRRR! drops from #19 to #64 in its second week, proving that a 50th anniversary hook isn't enough to sell a three-disk album in this market and/or that even with name-checks in #1 hits by Ke$ha and Maroon 5 featuring Christina Aguilera, Mick Jagger is still a distant figure to today's record buyers.How's that for a reality check? Maybe they should have called their album "Gangham Style." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted November 28, 2012 Members Share Posted November 28, 2012 As an experiment, I'm going to see how long I can go without looking up Gangham Style in Wikipedia. No doubt I'll live to regret my willful nescience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted November 28, 2012 Members Share Posted November 28, 2012 Sign of the times. When the economy is down, the first thing many people cut back on is entertainment. And in the music business, people tend to be buying more single songs on line for a buck over buying a CD collection for $168 http://rollingstones50.shop.bravadou...FcqY4AodkVwAdQ Or it may be the gravy train is over for some older bands. I know when I was a kid, my parents or grand parents music wasnt what kids listened to or would buy. Watching/listening to old farts dance around like they were teenagers never had an appeal to me as a kid and bands like the stones have gotten away with plenty of comebacks over the years. Maybe kids would enjoy seeing them live, but $200 and up for the cost of a ticket isnt something an unemployed kid or even an adult can afford. You have to admit in any case, many of the old bands have appeal from a historical appeal, but live, they dont thrill you like they would when they were young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted November 28, 2012 CMS Author Share Posted November 28, 2012 Originally Posted by blue2blue As an experiment, I'm going to see how long I can go without looking up Gangham Style in Wikipedia. I had to look it up. Someone sent me a link to the video without a title, and I thought he was saying "Condom Style." I couldn't figure out what that meant. Korean civics isn't one of my strong points, so I didn't know that Gangham was a district in Seoul. Maybe it would have been clearer in 24-bit 96 kHz format. As for the Stones' new collection of greatest hits, I expect that the price kept most but really serious fans or collectors away. Even just the "ordinary" 3 CD set for $30 (not such a bad deal, actually) is quite foreign to the download generation, much less the $160 Deluxe set. And it's probably on "the torrents" already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted November 28, 2012 Members Share Posted November 28, 2012 Okay, maybe I'm not looking at this the right way, but in a horrible economy, the fact that a $170 album that primarily appeals to baby boomers can chart at #19 seems like it's time to uncork the champagne and high-five each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted November 28, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 28, 2012 Yes, but follow the link...it's not just about the Stones, but about other hyped artists who just aren't delivering what people expected, regardless of the price.If I had the bucks I'd buy the Kraftwerk boxed set, but not the Stones We all have our priorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kotch Posted November 28, 2012 Members Share Posted November 28, 2012 This is what happens when the accountants take over in creative industries. They say things like, "If only one out of ten artists make money, why don't we just concentrate on that one guy and drop all the others?" So we get another Rolling Stones album. Yeah well, maybe the Rolling Stones aren't quite as relevant or compelling today as they were fifty years ago. And maybe this idea that you can "manufacture" talent in the studio doesn't quite work out either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted November 28, 2012 Moderators Share Posted November 28, 2012 Originally Posted by MikeRivers I had to look it up. Someone sent me a link to the video without a title, and I thought he was saying "Condom Style." I couldn't figure out what that meant. Korean civics isn't one of my strong points, so I didn't know that Gangham was a district in Seoul. Maybe it would have been clearer in 24-bit 96 kHz format. The world is bigger than the good ol' USA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted November 28, 2012 Members Share Posted November 28, 2012 Originally Posted by Kotch This is what happens when the accountants take over in creative industries. They say things like, "If only one out of ten artists make money, why don't we just concentrate on that one guy and drop all the others?" So we get another Rolling Stones album. Yeah well, maybe the Rolling Stones aren't quite as relevant or compelling today as they were fifty years ago. And maybe this idea that you can "manufacture" talent in the studio doesn't quite work out either. I looked for Grr! in MOG but it's not there yet. So I put on the UK version of Between the Buttons and hit play... "Who Wants Yesterday's Papers?"Indeed. But, actually, this is a fine album -- although the mono mixes I have on vinyl were (surprise, surprise) far better than the oddly gutless stereo mix -- at least in this remastering. Isn't it a shame we have to now pick our way through all these various, typically incompetent remasterings? It's like shopping at the vintage wine bargain basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hard Truth Posted November 28, 2012 Members Share Posted November 28, 2012 How many times can repackaged greatest hits/best of collections be issued before they stop being profitable? One of the most common record company sleazy tactics is creating a new cover design, changing out a song or two and then trying to pass off another greatest hits album as something new. Its always seemed especially disrespectful to the most loyal hardcore fans to thrown in an unreleased track on a greatest hits album, forcing the fans to pay for a whole album of content they already own just to get one or two new songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted November 29, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 29, 2012 Originally Posted by blue2blue ...the mono mixes I have on vinyl were (surprise, surprise) far better than the oddly gutless stereo mix -- at least in this remastering. Isn't it a shame we have to now pick our way through all these various, typically incompetent remasterings? No kidding. Some of my favorite albums were ruined by mastering engineers trying to "improve" on the original sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted November 29, 2012 Members Share Posted November 29, 2012 Originally Posted by Anderton Yes, but follow the link...it's not just about the Stones, but about other hyped artists who just aren't delivering what people expected, regardless of the price.If I had the bucks I'd buy the Kraftwerk boxed set, but not the Stones We all have our priorities. Right, I totally get that. But I dunno, are expectations realistic? That's what I'm getting at. If I have a band that appeals primarily to a graying population that doesn't purchase that much music compared to other demographics and haven't released an album that people consider great in over thirty years, and I put together an album that's mostly full of songs that have already been out for eons and sell it for $170 when most people aren't purchasing CDs anymore and it's a bad economy and that release gets to #9, I'm stoked. I get that people expect Whitney Houston's repackaged greatest hits album to sell more than 57,000 copies in two weeks. That I can understand. I would hope that more people would find that "Psychedelic Pill" by Neil Young is a great album and buy it.But am I missing something, or should we hail an album that sold well in the '80s coming back to #142 pretty damned good? Or do many other 30-year old albums do that kind of stuff when 1.) albums can be downloaded for free on the internet, 2.) I can probably listen to this for free on Spotify, and 3.) the economy sucks?Then, too, there seems to be some good news as far as record sales go. Now, I don't like Rihanna's music, but should we maybe think, "Hey, she's selling 238,000 copies in one week! That's great for a current artist!" or should we think that maybe this should be reversed and Whitney Houston should be selling this much for a re-tread greatest hits album that soccer moms already have in their iPods? Or that Taylor Swift is selling two million albums? Or we should expect aging grunge guys who haven't recorded in 15 years to sell better instead?What is a realistic expectation? What's truly surprising?I know. Let's compare whose sales are disappointing with those whose sales are considered good in the article and see if we can figure out a trend!!!First, the disappointing:- Michael Jackson thirty year old album "Bad"- Whitney Houston's compilation of chart-topping oldies- The Stones previously-released smash hits of yesteryear- Soundgarden's first release in fifteen years, back when grunge ruled the airwaves and we wore flannel- The Twilight Saga - I guess this is a movie soundtrack. - Neil Young and Crazy Horse's "Psychedelic Pill". 67 years old and still rockin'!- Lana Del Rey (I sure hope her new album is better than her last one, which had one decent song)- The Deftones ({censored}, they're still around? Who knew?)- Susan Boyle Now, the encouraging[:- Rihanna's new album, a young artist that appeals to people under 30.- Taylor Swift's new album, a very young artist that appeals to people under 30.- One Direction, a boy band that appeals to people who haven't reached puberty- Phillip Phillips, young, recent American Idol winner- Kid Rock, who appeals to a younger demographic - Pink, born in 1979, who appeals to a younger demographic- Psy, the fantastic new YouTube sensation who has the hot new dance- Adele - young singer with recent smash album that appeals to...well, just about everyone! - Rod Stewart Christmas album - back with a new Christmas album, this is a gimme, sort of like Kenny G Christmas albums of yesteryear, so of course this will sell- Led Zeppelin's highly anticipated "Celebration Day" CD/DVD - this is a gimme as well, total blue chip stockSee a pattern emerging? Be honest - is any of this really surprising? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted November 29, 2012 Members Share Posted November 29, 2012 Originally Posted by Kotch This is what happens when the accountants take over in creative industries. They say things like, "If only one out of ten artists make money, why don't we just concentrate on that one guy and drop all the others?" So we get another Rolling Stones album. Yeah well, maybe the Rolling Stones aren't quite as relevant or compelling today as they were fifty years ago. And maybe this idea that you can "manufacture" talent in the studio doesn't quite work out either. This is what happens when accountants take over a dying industry that is on life support in an economy that sucks in an environment where I can stream lots of things for free. This is what happens when an industry places less emphasis on writing good songs or developing artists or mining creativity, instead putting out repackaged retreads of old dinosaurs that haven't released anything that's all that great since Jimmy Carter was in office. In light of that, I think some of these "disappointments" should be hailed as stellar marketing achievements.Please note the use of the word "stellar". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted November 29, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 29, 2012 Originally Posted by UstadKhanAli Right, I totally get that. But I dunno, are expectations realistic? That's what I'm getting at. Hence my comment about a reality check. See a pattern emerging? Be honest - is any of this really surprising? Of course not, but what's surprising is that it's surprising to the record companies, who put endless amounts of hype into all these releases.I can't remember the last time I bought a Stones album, but I think it was in the 70s...and in theory, I'm in that demographic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted November 29, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 29, 2012 Originally Posted by UstadKhanAli This is what happens when accountants take over a dying industry that is on life support in an economy that sucks in an environment where I can stream lots of things for free. I think those accountants are part of the reason the rest of your comments ring true. I distinctly remember the flurry of greatest hits packages, re-issues, and boxed sets that happened when labels started getting bought out by conglomerates. After all, why pay for studio time for new material, or take the effort to find new acts, when you can simply hire a graphic artist to come up with a nice package design for stuff that was already recorded and represents pure profit?It was even better if the artists were dead. Hey, where did the royalties for that Robert Johnson boxed set go, anyway? No one really seems to know.When Napster happened, record companies had a stellar opportunity to take over that scene, monetize it, and use their unique leverage with artists to give far more than Napster could. But, they didn't.To be fair, I don't just see this in the record industry; magazines have a lot of "well, it worked 30 years ago" in their philosophies as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted November 29, 2012 Members Share Posted November 29, 2012 Originally Posted by Anderton Of course not, but what's surprising is that it's surprising to the record companies, who put endless amounts of hype into all these releases. Well, that's it exactly. But tell the Yahoo journalist that. I can't remember the last time I bought a Stones album, but I think it was in the 70s...and in theory, I'm in that demographic. I bought a few of their albums in the '80s when I was discovering them. That you can sell that much of anything for $170 that you can download or stream for free should be considered a minor miracle. These marketing guys are geniuses. What's next? Hey, let's release a $180 boxed set of The Kinks! It'll go to the Top 100 and fall off after that, and all industry pundits can express great surprise!!! "Oh, when I group of this stature falls off like this, it's like a death knell for the recording industry!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted November 29, 2012 Members Share Posted November 29, 2012 Originally Posted by Anderton I think those accountants are part of the reason the rest of your comments ring true. I distinctly remember the flurry of greatest hits packages, re-issues, and boxed sets that happened when labels started getting bought out by conglomerates. After all, why pay for studio time for new material, or take the effort to find new acts, when you can simply hire a graphic artist to come up with a nice package design for stuff that was already recorded and represents pure profit? And I'd love an honest marketing hack for a major label to follow up with, "We're so grateful for a public that's willing to buy this overpriced re-release that most people already have that can be streamed for free. We hope that more of you don't find out about MOG and Spotify. By the way, it costs much less than a dollar to press each CD, the studio costs have already been paid, and we're quite frankly amazed that so many of you will pay two days' wages for this. Thank you for allowing me to be able to continue putting my kids through college." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted November 29, 2012 Members Share Posted November 29, 2012 Originally Posted by Anderton No kidding. Some of my favorite albums were ruined by mastering engineers trying to "improve" on the original sound. The should be in the section with remixes. I mean, DJ remixes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members roomjello Posted November 29, 2012 Members Share Posted November 29, 2012 I just picked up the new Nora Jones with Danger Mouse. Wow,. What the {censored} happened there? Pure poop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Geoff Grace Posted November 29, 2012 Members Share Posted November 29, 2012 I'm a Stones fan, and I'm not buying it. I've already purchased multiple copies of these songs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted November 29, 2012 Members Share Posted November 29, 2012 Originally Posted by Anderton Yes, but follow the link...it's not just about the Stones, but about other hyped artists who just aren't delivering what people expected, regardless of the price.If I had the bucks I'd buy the Kraftwerk boxed set, but not the Stones We all have our priorities. Well, thats what I was thinking Craig... we all have our priorities and when money is tight, these luxuries take a back seat. But Ken is right, in todays market, having the stones in the top 20 is a pretty big achievement. I guess success and failure are defined by our own standards, not chart placement... at least for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted November 29, 2012 Members Share Posted November 29, 2012 Originally Posted by Geoff Grace I'm a Stones fan, and I'm not buying it.I've already purchased multiple copies of these songs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Lozada Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 It is a LOGISTICS problem. They need to wait until Mick Jagger's death. Then, It can be sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JeffLearman Posted November 29, 2012 Members Share Posted November 29, 2012 Originally Posted by MikeRivers I had to look it up. I had to look up "nescience" ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JeffLearman Posted November 29, 2012 Members Share Posted November 29, 2012 Originally Posted by Gus Lozada It is a LOGISTICS problem.They need to wait until Mick Jagger's death. Then, It can be sold. Yeah, no kidding.For $24 on Amazon, I just might pick up a copy of Grrr. Oddly enough, I've never owned a Stones album. When younger, a housemate or friend always had one I could borrow to learn a cover. But it would be nice to have a set of hits like this for making party playlists. Maybe I'm their market demographic: a boomer with no stones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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