Members jackslappy Posted August 15, 2015 Members Share Posted August 15, 2015 This piece is from a suite of ten works that I completed in about 18 months earlier this year. Please tell me what you think of it. https://soundcloud.com/dragonfyerfingers/the-exegesis-of-terrestrial-valence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LCK Posted August 16, 2015 Members Share Posted August 16, 2015 This piece is from a suite of ten works that I completed in about 18 months earlier this year. Please tell me what you think of it. https://soundcloud.com/dragonfyerfin...strial-valence Hmmmm. Listen to a 45 minute track by an unknown personage on a Sunday morning...? That's asking a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jackslappy Posted August 16, 2015 Author Members Share Posted August 16, 2015 Thanks LCK, at least you took the time to reply. My timing is probably not the best in posting the tune on Sunday morning. Otherwise it is what it is - a 45 minute piece of music written for folks who actually like music. If people don't like the 45 minute run time, they can just switch it off. But art is working on something until you like it, and then leaving it that way. And I like it. I hope you do too. That is if you have the patience to listen to it. What I'm doing is writing modern symphonic music, not opera. I'm hoping there might be some who are interested in it. As for being an "unknown personage" - I can only say that I hope I remain as such. Fame isn't all that its cracked up to be. I want the music to speak for itself and for the musician to be invisible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted August 17, 2015 Members Share Posted August 17, 2015 I have listened to the piece - it must have been a lot of work.Let me qualify that I am not a musician as such, but have listened to most of the great classical symphonies.I find the piece therefore more in the prog rock genre than symphonic. Being a sixytysomething I lived through the excesses of prog rock in the 70's. Some was good, but a lot was simply super indulgent jamming.So to be honest, your piece sounds more like a stage jam in the ilk of Emerson, Lake and Palmer than a symphony. Now don't get me wrong, this is a review and not a criticism. I think the piece displays a great deal of capability, but to me, it sounds like a one-off performance piece (including all the visuals) rather than a symphony for armchair listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted August 17, 2015 Members Share Posted August 17, 2015 You have put in a lot of work and there are a lot of interesting ideas, no question. Being a keyboard player myself, the keys sound overly quantized to me. Like maybe they were step-entered into the DAW. Some of the runs sound artifical - too fast and mechanically precise. Not even the classical greats play fast that way, there's always some stretch, ebb and flow, nuance - the machine-gun effect is to be avoided. Keith Emerson would play about as close to the machine-gun effect as anyone I've heard - ok, I'll include Chick Corea in that category, too. Even then, they sound less machine-like than some passages in your track. If you are quantizing, I recommend set the percentage to only 70% or so and see if it doesn't take out some of the robotic feel - I hope we are not coming across as discouraging - just remember, a sort of unspoken rule around here is that, the more you comment on other people's stuff, the more willing people are to take the time and trouble to comment on yours. Quid pro quo sort of thing... nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted August 17, 2015 Members Share Posted August 17, 2015 Being a keyboard player myself, the keys sound overly quantized to me. Like maybe they were step-entered into the DAW. Some of the runs sound artifical - too fast and mechanically precise. Not even the classical greats play fast that way, there's always some stretch, ebb and flow, nuance - the machine-gun effect is to be avoided. Yes - that aspect detracted from the piece - I just don't understand the technicalities of DAW operations to be able to articulate a comment. All I heard was what I might call,'Homogonised distanced intervals' which I guess what Nat is talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhino55 Posted August 17, 2015 Members Share Posted August 17, 2015 This is impressive. Congratulations on completing the suite. The most important part of the creative process is getting started. The next most important part is completing a piece. I will +1 to what Nat and Git said. They already articulated what I would want to say in a better way then I would've said it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jackslappy Posted August 17, 2015 Author Members Share Posted August 17, 2015 Thank you for your most gracious comments! The piece was written with Sibelius 7 which rips wave files in perfect time. Its a problem I'm going to have to spend money in a service call to Avid, the parent company of Sibelius to solve. There is, no doubt, a way to reset the quantizing settings for how it rips wave files, and a little cash output beats braining through the million page manual. The whole piece was written this way. I'm not even really a keyboard player; My main instrument, back in the day, was bass guitar. As for the style of the piece I would definitely agree that its not symphonic although I did include symphonic elements. Still, the suite, including all ten pieces, is entirely instrumental, and incorporates a lot of classical instrumentation, which places it in a precarious position. I really don't know what category it belongs to other than modern classical music, even though there's a lot of rock elements. What makes me happiest is that you people took the time to listen to such a long piece and give me some really good ideas about what I can do better next time. And I'm looking forward to listening and making the best, most helpful comments that I can on this website. I'm a newbie here,, and, having gotten such a warm welcome, and since I can see that it is an environment dedicated to the furtherance of the arts, in the many forms of music, I believe I just found a real cool hangout. Much affection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mbfrancis Posted August 20, 2015 Members Share Posted August 20, 2015 Hey jackslappy, welcome. * I can't really comment on your piece(s), as instrumental symphonic or prog isn't really my area. This is the Songwriting Workshop, so we generally focus on songs with lyrics. I'm sure there are other board where composers post instrumental pieces, I just don't know where.* In general, yeah I would consider leaving feedback for others first vs. posting 4x in a day expecting people to leave considered feedback, which takes a lot of time. This would apply to any board FYI.* Sibelius is not a DAW, and is probably not your best bet for making recorded 'produced' music. It's notation/transcription software, so it's export function is simply so you can hear the printed music, not create finished audio recordings. If you're on Mac I'd consider Logic, which is $200 and comes with a whole library of instruments. You can take your MIDI from SIbelius and bring it into Logic or vice versa. If on PC you could try a number of options, all similar. Hope this helps. EDIT: noticed you left some reviews, cool, welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jackslappy Posted August 22, 2015 Author Members Share Posted August 22, 2015 mbfrancis, these are good comments. I do understand that Sibelius isn't a DAW, but that didn't stop me from producing with it's suite of tones and using it's MIDI exporting for running additional synths through a DAW. I produced my music with yet a third DAW. Of course I still have the quantizing problem when ripping individual wave files directly from Sibelius, but I hope to solve that problem shortly. I guess I'm at a loss as to where to share my compositions at this point, and I don't like just sitting on them. But you're right, I ought to let people get to know who I am before I lay it on them, and find the proper forum for the material. Thanks for the welcome, and hi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chordptrn Posted August 22, 2015 Members Share Posted August 22, 2015 Hey jackslappy, welcome. * I can't really comment on your piece(s), as instrumental symphonic or prog isn't really my area. This is the Songwriting Workshop, so we generally focus on songs with lyrics. I'm sure there are other board where composers post instrumental pieces, I just don't know where. * In general, yeah I would consider leaving feedback for others first vs. posting 4x in a day expecting people to leave considered feedback, which takes a lot of time. This would apply to any board FYI. * Sibelius is not a DAW, and is probably not your best bet for making recorded 'produced' music. It's notation/transcription software, so it's export function is simply so you can hear the printed music, not create finished audio recordings. If you're on Mac I'd consider Logic, which is $200 and comes with a whole library of instruments. You can take your MIDI from SIbelius and bring it into Logic or vice versa. If on PC you could try a number of options, all similar. Hope this helps. EDIT: noticed you left some reviews, cool, welcome. Lots of songs do not have lyrics. It shortsighted but typical to focus on that in songwriting forums. I always see people posting "post the lyrics". Too bad and quite limiting really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted August 22, 2015 Members Share Posted August 22, 2015 Lots of songs do not have lyrics. It shortsighted but typical to focus on that in songwriting forums. I always see people posting "post the lyrics". Too bad and quite limiting really. Yeah, I agree it would be nice to have forum where instrumental material was shared and discussed from a song-writing perspective. But I feel like, since the folks here give smart and sincere advice for free, I would hesitate to critique them as shortsighted, just specialized. If someone gives me a free sandwich, I don't say "what, no beer?" nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chordptrn Posted August 22, 2015 Members Share Posted August 22, 2015 Yeah, I agree it would be nice to have forum where instrumental material was shared and discussed from a song-writing perspective. They give their opinions, from a lyrical POV. There's only one SWF so the participants should change their focus to include instrumentals.The lack thereof is shortsighted. Comments like "we critique lyrics" is an obvious reinforcement of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted August 22, 2015 Members Share Posted August 22, 2015 Yeah, I agree it would be nice to have forum where instrumental material was shared and discussed from a song-writing perspective. They give their opinions, from a lyrical POV. There's only one SWF so the participants should change their focus to include instrumentals.The lack thereof is shortsighted. Comments like "we critique lyrics" is an obvious reinforcement of this. With all due respect - there's no "should" to what people contribute here or what their focus is - it's all volunteer according to what people simply are interested in. If you want to comment on instrumentals, please do so. I comment on instrumentals when they appear and I wish more people would, but if they don't, they don't. Maybe if more people would comment on instrumentals, some sort of community of exchange along those lines would develop. But there's nothing here but what people want to do and actually do. No promises have been made or obligations shouldered whatsoever...the SWF is just a bucket on the street - what people freely throw in is what defines it. If you want to see something in it that you don't see, start dropping that "something" in there - hopefully others will follow. nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chordptrn Posted August 22, 2015 Members Share Posted August 22, 2015 With all due respect - there's no "should" to what people contribute here or what their focus is - it's all volunteer according to what people simply are interested in. If you want to comment on instrumentals, please do so. I comment on instrumentals when they appear and I wish more people would, but if they don't, they don't. Maybe if more people would comment on instrumentals, some sort of community of exchange along those lines would develop. But there's nothing here but what people want to do and actually do. No promises have been made or obligations shouldered whatsoever...the SWF is just a bucket on the street - what people freely throw in is what defines it. If you want to see something in it that you don't see, start dropping that "something" in there - hopefully others will follow. nat whilk ii Well I don't expect a big change in the direction of the forum anytime soon. It's pretty much a ghost town now with maybe half a dozen regulars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chantal Fortin Posted August 22, 2015 Members Share Posted August 22, 2015 Wow! How long did it take you to write this piece ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mbfrancis Posted August 24, 2015 Members Share Posted August 24, 2015 Well I don't expect a big change in the direction of the forum anytime soon. It's pretty much a ghost town now with maybe half a dozen regulars. Not sure how widening the focus of this group would improve it. I care passionately about *songs*, and seek feedback from other people who do as well. And I'd rather have considered feedback from six regulars than casual comments from 20. I don't run the place, though. Again, it takes time to write good feedback, and I'm not really contributing by critiquing long classical or prog instrumentals - no real value to the recipient for the time I invest. But I can usually add value to a song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhino55 Posted August 24, 2015 Members Share Posted August 24, 2015 Lots of songs do not have lyrics. It shortsighted but typical to focus on that in songwriting forums. I always see people posting "post the lyrics". Too bad and quite limiting really. Maybe that could be your contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chordptrn Posted August 24, 2015 Members Share Posted August 24, 2015 Not sure how widening the focus of this group would improve it. I care passionately about *songs*, and seek feedback from other people who do as well. And I'd rather have considered feedback from six regulars than casual comments from 20. I don't run the place, though. Again, it takes time to write good feedback, and I'm not really contributing by critiquing long classical or prog instrumentals - no real value to the recipient for the time I invest. But I can usually add value to a song. "Songs" don't always have lyrics. Another glaring example of the shortsighted nature of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted August 24, 2015 Members Share Posted August 24, 2015 "Songs" don't always have lyrics. Another glaring example of the shortsighted nature of people. A song is a set of words that are sung. An instrumental is a tune that is played. But if you want to create definitions outside of the English language, it's a free world……... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chordptrn Posted August 25, 2015 Members Share Posted August 25, 2015 Yeah I guess you're right there - but still doesn't absolve people from being narrow minded about "instrumentals". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mbfrancis Posted August 25, 2015 Members Share Posted August 25, 2015 Wow, so I'm shortsighted *and* narrow-minded. Nice to meet you too lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhino55 Posted August 25, 2015 Members Share Posted August 25, 2015 Yeah I guess you're right there - but still doesn't absolve people from being narrow minded about "instrumentals". Bitching at people for not doing something that you're not willing to do yourself only really makes you look bad. If you're not already involved in politics, you should run for public office. You'll fit right in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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