Members Kitty Phobes Posted June 8, 2002 Members Share Posted June 8, 2002 How do you know when it's time to give up on that song that you've been working on the bridge for a year and half but it just won't come together, for example. How do you decide to just dump a song and forget about it, instead of trying to finish it? I'm talking about songs that are still in the process, not songs that you're already playing out. KP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Barry Jive Posted June 8, 2002 Members Share Posted June 8, 2002 man, I keep everything stored. Either in my head, on paper, or recorded. I've actually had a couple songs come together out of snippets of other songs I've written and left. As long as it's generally about the same thing and the mood fits, then you're fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members crazydave Posted June 8, 2002 Members Share Posted June 8, 2002 when your trying to find a word that rimes with wenis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cool cat Posted June 8, 2002 Members Share Posted June 8, 2002 or 'kagina' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members crazydave Posted June 8, 2002 Members Share Posted June 8, 2002 Originally posted by cool cat or 'kagina' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kingnome Posted June 8, 2002 Members Share Posted June 8, 2002 Well, I've got a similar problem. I've got a great song that needs a great bridge, hence the "bridge" thread. I was going to give it to someone else to get a fresh idea. Maybe you can help. It goes, "da ta da da de dum". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SomeGuyNamedRob Posted June 8, 2002 Members Share Posted June 8, 2002 Originally posted by Kingnome Well, I've got a similar problem. I've got a great song that needs a great bridge, hence the "bridge" thread. I was going to give it to someone else to get a fresh idea. Maybe you can help. It goes, "da ta da da de dum". I'm just curious, why does the song "need" a bridge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kingnome Posted June 8, 2002 Members Share Posted June 8, 2002 Originally posted by SomeGuyNamedRob I'm just curious, why does the song "need" a bridge? That's a fair question. Without hearing what I've got so far, I don't think I could explain it. That's why the "dee dee dum" thing. But since you asked, it's a medium tempo rock tune with percussive piano and drums and a CSN&Y-style vocal arrangement, but after the second chorus, the guitar solo just doesn't take it anywhere. I'm not bad at constructing guitar solos that go places, but as this song is, coming back in to repeat the chorus again seems lame for this tune. Can you relate ? The key change suggestions seems kind of contrived for this tune, so I'm kind of stumped ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SomeGuyNamedRob Posted June 8, 2002 Members Share Posted June 8, 2002 Originally posted by Kingnome That's a fair question. Without hearing what I've got so far, I don't think I could explain it. That's why the "dee dee dum" thing. But since you asked, it's a medium tempo rock tune with percussive piano and drums and a CSN&Y-style vocal arrangement, but after the second chorus, the guitar solo just doesn't take it anywhere. I'm not bad at constructing guitar solos that go places, but as this song is, coming back in to repeat the chorus again seems lame for this tune. Can you relate ? The key change suggestions seems kind of contrived for this tune, so I'm kind of stumped ! Why not just break the song down to bare minimum elements - like a drum and bassline, with a quiet vocal that leads you to a prechorus? That way you don't need a whole new progression - a simple bass riff will work just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kingnome Posted June 8, 2002 Members Share Posted June 8, 2002 Originally posted by Kitty Phobes How do you decide to just dump a song and forget about it, instead of trying to finish it? KP These kind of songs I usually start over with. Sometimes I'll use just the strongest musical hook line and trash the rest. Other times I'll play it on another instrument and find a whole new dimension that I hadn't heard before. Sometimes I use both tactics and get something really good. On the other hand, my best songs were written in 15 minutes, structured and arranged an hour later, recorded in rough form and mixed by lunchtime. My best ideas come without thinking about it. They aren't really pleasing to listen to, but all the ideas are documented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SomeGuyNamedRob Posted June 8, 2002 Members Share Posted June 8, 2002 Originally posted by Kingnome My best ideas come without thinking about it. They aren't really pleasing to listen to, but all the ideas are documented. Well, no one ever said it had to be pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kingnome Posted June 8, 2002 Members Share Posted June 8, 2002 Originally posted by SomeGuyNamedRob Why not just break the song down to bare minimum elements - like a drum and bassline, with a quiet vocal that leads you to a prechorus? That way you don't need a whole new progression - a simple bass riff will work just fine. You may be onto something there. I had been hearing this uplifting, swelling thing in my head, but maybe the simple break would work better when coming back in to the last chorus. I'm gonna work on this one and get back to you. Thanks ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SomeGuyNamedRob Posted June 8, 2002 Members Share Posted June 8, 2002 Originally posted by Kingnome You may be onto something there. I had been hearing this uplifting, swelling thing in my head, but maybe the simple break would work better when coming back in to the last chorus. I'm gonna work on this one and get back to you. Thanks ! See, I find the uplifting bits after a solo to sound kind of hokey. A breakdown would create tension that could be resolved by the chorus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Doc Wilson Posted June 8, 2002 Members Share Posted June 8, 2002 My recipe for knowing when to ditch is to leave it alone for a least a week and then come back and listen with fresh ears. At that point, I can always tell whether its worth pursuing or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mosesblues Posted June 8, 2002 Members Share Posted June 8, 2002 I've been in the same place - sensing there needed to be something to either break up the song, or add drama to it. I really miss the use of bridge parts and 'B' parts to songs that used to be a fairly standard requirement. It gave you some ideal ot what the writer was seeking to express beyond the verse/chorus. And, it is really cool when you expect a certain bridge sequence in your head - but the writer takes a turn that surprises you in a good way. SomeGuyNamedRob is right on about not always needing a brigde. You can also accomplish the drama by breaking down and building up. Very effective - plus you get to establish the dominant instrument as you build the song back up to full arrangement. (Rob - where are you in the Chicago area? I lived there for 15 years and just moved West.) Another idea that might help is to think of what 'most effective' chord or note the bridge has to end on to resolve to the chorus it will join. Then think of the 'most effective' transitional chord or note you have in mind to start the bridge - something that immediately lets the listener know that it is a new part of the song. Then see if a chord progression strikes you that can start and end on the chords you've chosen. Hope this is helpful. Moses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kestral Posted June 8, 2002 Members Share Posted June 8, 2002 Originally posted by cool cat or 'kagina' "Regina", a city in the province of Sasketchewan in Canada. That is also the Latin word for "Queen". *grin* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SomeGuyNamedRob Posted June 8, 2002 Members Share Posted June 8, 2002 Originally posted by mosesblues SomeGuyNamedRob is right on about not always needing a brigde. You can also accomplish the drama by breaking down and building up. Very effective - plus you get to establish the dominant instrument as you build the song back up to full arrangement. I actually got this idea from the way Metallica did "Holier Than Thou" - the way they came out of the solo into just a bass riff and drums, building up into a full 3 guitar riff, and back into the chorus. I thought it was a great idea. I'm sure I've heard many other songs do the same thing, but that's the song that's stuck with me. (Rob - where are you in the Chicago area? I lived there for 15 years and just moved West.) My wife and I live in the northern suburbs - Winnetka to be specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members peer amid Posted June 8, 2002 Members Share Posted June 8, 2002 A YEAR AND A HALF !!!???!!!........For goodness sakes, it's just a song, finish it or scrap it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kitty Phobes Posted June 8, 2002 Author Members Share Posted June 8, 2002 Thanks to everyone who has posted their ideas so far. It's fun to read different takes on songwriting because there is an infinite supply of "right" ways to do anything. Actually, the bridge example was hypothetical, but I can see it comes up a lot! Personally, I like bridges. They're like the icing on the cake. KP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassesofalessergod Posted June 8, 2002 Members Share Posted June 8, 2002 if you are honest with yourself, you will know when to say when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kitty Phobes Posted June 8, 2002 Author Members Share Posted June 8, 2002 Originally posted by bassesofalessergod if you are honest with yourself, you will know when to say when. Wow. That's scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassesofalessergod Posted June 8, 2002 Members Share Posted June 8, 2002 Originally posted by Kitty Phobes Wow. That's scary. the truth is out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SomeGuyNamedRob Posted June 8, 2002 Members Share Posted June 8, 2002 Originally posted by bassesofalessergod the truth is out there. And Nirvana isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassesofalessergod Posted June 8, 2002 Members Share Posted June 8, 2002 Originally posted by SomeGuyNamedRob And Nirvana isn't it. again, let me state that they are not my favorite band.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sam Therapy Posted June 8, 2002 Members Share Posted June 8, 2002 I keep a lot of my part finished lyrics for a few years. I hardly ever recycle them, but sometimes they provide an inspirational springboard for a new project. Tip that works for me - but not an encouragement to alcohol abuse: I write my best lyrics when I'm extremely drunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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