Stepping Stones - an old song to ditch or develop?

[oldgitplayer]

Although I started learning song craft 4 years ago, I did try my hand at it back in 1989 for a few weeks. I have just found 3 songs that I did then.

I'm fairly amused by them, but I have no real perspective to be able to properly evaluate them.

I'm trying to make up my mind whether I should ditch or develop.

If develop - then I need to rip them apart and rebuild from the ground up using the good bits (if any).

 

Wachathink? - trash or do some work?

 

Stepping stones ------ Burton (1989) ©

 

V1

Itinerant fools of fortune

Hearts confused by fear

Our angels gagged and bound

A hundred million years

Caravans of pleasure

Well-travelled sands of time

Not knowing how to measure

What wanders through your mind

 

V2

We are refugees of madness

Locked in a broken dream

Lost and lonely travellers

With nothing to redeem

The threshold of our waking

May be far or near

When end brings new beginning

It's purpose disappears

 

Chorus

Searching for our Garden of Eden

Not knowing what there is to find

Stepping stones across the skyways

Stepping stones across your mind

 

V3

The falling of night's curtain

Astride Methuselah's dream

We long for morning's dawn

Though nothing's what it seeems

The sideshows in the carnivals

The freaks and mirrored maze

Magic men with sleight of hand

Confuse our nights and days

 

V4

We're the rich and ragged ramblers

On the circle line of fear

Condemned by passion's transport

The terminus draws near

We are guests of time's illusion

The piper plays his tune

We dance this beach of quicksand

With the waning of the moon

 

Chorus

Searching for our Garden of Eden

Not knowing what there is to find

Stepping stones across the skyways

Stepping stones across your mind

[LCK]

There's definitely something here worth working on here, if you feel like it. You've got some really good imagery, and some really good lines here and there.

[oldgitplayer]

There's definitely something here worth working on here' date=' if you feel like it. You've got some really good imagery, and some really good lines here and there.[/quote']

 

Thanks - I suppose I should give it a go, but I'm not sure what is worth salvaging.

I think I probably need to decide what the song is really going to be about, because at the moment it's just a tumbling tumbleweed of imagery with only a loose idea of searching for a decent life amidst the chaos of existence.

[DonnaMarilyn]

You have a goldmine of gorgeous individual images. A couple of quick/random suggestions. Sounds like you have a theme, so that's a start. Maybe apply David Bowie's 'cut-up' writing technique (used also by William S. Burroughs, and earlier writers).

 

A quote from Bowie: “You write down a paragraph or two describing several different subjects, creating a kind of ‘story ingredients’ list, ... and then cut the sentences into four or five-word sections; mix ‘em up and reconnect them.

You can get some pretty interesting idea combinations like this. You can use them as is or, if you have a craven need to not lose control, bounce off these ideas and write whole new sections.”

 

In your case, you could just cup up several of the various lines/couplets.

 

Or maybe take just one verse, and develop a whole story from that. Lots of possibilities.

 

Your verses are long, and take a while to get to the chorus. Maybe opt for a V/Ch/V/Ch/Bridge/Chorus format. And if the verses are image-rich, perhaps opt for simplicity in the chorus, or vice versa. In any case, try to combine complex with simple.

 

If you enjoy reading about the writing of lyrics, one book I can highly recommend is Pat Pattison's 'Songwriting: Essential Guide to Lyric Form and Structure'. You might even be able to pick one up secondhand on Amazon.

 

Pat's website is also pretty neat, and extremely informative. Check out his videos.

http://www.patpattison.com

[tbry]

You have a lot of great lines and verses...the first verse is really good but it could be the start of a whole different song/idea....it also helps to shorten the song...I took the liberty of dropping it and used the others that told a more linear tale. V,Ch,V,Ch...First person felt to me to be more intimate and interesting so you could see how it looked and felt. These are just my ideas, you can choose or not...

 

 

 

V2

I'm a refugee() of madness

Locked in a broken dream

Lost and lonely traveler()

With nothing to redeem

The threshold of my waking

May be far or near

When end brings new beginning

It's purpose disappears

 

Chorus

Searching for my Garden of Eden

Not knowing what there is to find

Stepping stones across the skyways

Stepping stones across my mind

 

V3

The falling of night's curtain

Astride Methuselah's dream

I long for morning's dawn

Though nothing is what it seems

The sideshows in the carnivals

The freaks and mirrored maze

Magic men with sleight of hand

Confuse my nights and days

 

Chorus

Searching for my Garden of Eden

Not knowing what there is to find

Stepping stones across the skyways

Stepping stones across my mind

 

V4

I'm the rich and ragged rambler()

On the circle line of fear

Condemned by passion's transport

The terminus draws near

I'm a guest() of time's illusion

The piper plays his tune

I dance this beach of quicksand

With the waning of the moon

 

Chorus

Searching for my Garden of Eden

Not knowing what there is to find

Stepping stones across the skyways

Stepping stones across my mind

[rhino55]

I think it's worth a re-visit, but I wouldn't go too far with it. It's already pretty good. I was going to suggest what tbry already did; match the personal pronoun of the last line of the chorus to the rest of it, but I would suggest keeping it we and then saying stepping stones across our mind. I think it'll work either way.

 

I liked V1. It's deep in a mysterious sort of way. I didn't get it at first read, but I liked it and read it till I did. I think cutting it as suggested works, in large part because leading with "I'm/We're refugees of madness" is a great opening line, but you might consider bringing V1 back as a bridge. Only thing I'd consider changing is "well-traveled sands of time." Imagery wise I think that's a great line because sands ties in ties in nicely with the picture of a caravan. I can see a mystic caravan traveling across the desert in search of riches or whatever... that's cool but as a line it seems like it might be clunky. Maybe not. Depends on how it'd sing.

 

In V3 "nothing is what it seems" might come across as a cliche, because of the dream/seems rhyme, but I don't know that I'd try and change it. It says exactly what it needs to say.

 

Last thing, in V4 the word "transport," to me sounds futuristic and takes away from the timelessness of the rest of it.

[oldgitplayer]

Thanks everybody for chipping in. Your comments have given me the impetus to start thinking about it again.

Donna:

I have a few songwriting books on my shelf including Pat Pattison and am familiar with his videos. I have workshopped about 30 lyrics on this forum and have experimented with a range of structures, , so I'm comfortable about dealing with this one.

Thank you for your kind comment on the imagery - I will probably discard a great deal of it when I tighten up on the theme, but it may well end up in another lyric. J.S. Bach endlessly recycled his motifs and melodies.

tbry:

I wondered about whether to stay with the collective pronoun or change to the 1st person. Both you and Ryan have suggested the voice of the 1st person, so it's probably a good indicator of the preferred direction.

Ryan:

I think 1st person it will be then.

I agree with what you are saying about the use of the word 'transport'. It will go.

Although I wrote this 25 years ago, I think I'm still prone to writing mood rather than fact, so I'm glad you like it. I think I want a more definitive theme in the chorus, so I'll tackle that first. Once I've got that I'll shape a Bridge around the theme. I can then edit down to 2 verses.

I've taken aboard your other comments - so let's see how it all unfolds.

 

[Lee Knight]

I like it as is very much. Not a clunker in sight and insight in spades. THIS is a lyric, my friend.

[nat whilk II]

Strikes me as appropriate lyrics for some good 'ol fashion prog. I have a soft spot for prog, so I'm not being facetious in the least.

 

There are a few cliches/worn phrases that I would try to alter -

 

gagged and bound

sands of time

piper plays his tune

waning of the moon

 

I particularly enjoy coming up with altered cliches with some point or double meaning to the alteration - an Elvis Costello sort of wordplay e.g. "anywhere you hang your head".

 

Also - "confuse our nights and days"...you could just use "days" which would imply "night and day" and stick in a vivid adjective in the gap.

 

I don't mind the jumble of images at all - a roiling stew of language is a great thing if some powerful and evocative aroma comes out of it...

 

I tend to think almost any lyrics or tune can be salvaged and turned into something - when I'm looking at some abandoned project of mine, I'm often think of that great scene from Amadeus where Mozart sits down and plays the little piece Salieri is so proud of, very quickly altering it, saying,"wouldn't this be better?...Yes! (laughing his hyena laugh)" and Salieri's little tame invention takes wing under Mozart's miraculous improvisations. If I could only find my tiny little inner Mozart more often - usually I'm all Salieri.

 

nat whilk ii

 

 

 

 

 

[oldgitplayer]

I like it as is very much. Not a clunker in sight and insight in spades. THIS is a lyric' date=' my friend.[/quote']

 

Thank you good sir - I'm glad you like it.

There may not be clunkers, but I have been stimulated by the input, and incorporating some tweaks as well as some of my own upgrades.

 

Both you, Nat and Ryan all seemed pretty happy the way it is, so I have abandoned my initial thought of rebuilding it from the ground up, and settled for some hopefully thoughtful editing.

[oldgitplayer]

Strikes me as appropriate lyrics for some good 'ol fashion prog. I have a soft spot for prog, so I'm not being facetious in the least.

 

There are a few cliches/worn phrases that I would try to alter -

 

gagged and bound

sands of time

piper plays his tune

waning of the moon

 

I particularly enjoy coming up with altered cliches with some point or double meaning to the alteration - an Elvis Costello sort of wordplay e.g. "anywhere you hang your head".

 

Also - "confuse our nights and days"...you could just use "days" which would imply "night and day" and stick in a vivid adjective in the gap.

 

I don't mind the jumble of images at all - a roiling stew of language is a great thing if some powerful and evocative aroma comes out of it...

 

I tend to think almost any lyrics or tune can be salvaged and turned into something - when I'm looking at some abandoned project of mine, I'm often think of that great scene from Amadeus where Mozart sits down and plays the little piece Salieri is so proud of, very quickly altering it, saying,"wouldn't this be better?...Yes! (laughing his hyena laugh)" and Salieri's little tame invention takes wing under Mozart's miraculous improvisations. If I could only find my tiny little inner Mozart more often - usually I'm all Salieri.

 

nat whilk ii

 

Some good thoughts there Nat - I agree about the cliches, and they will be excised.

 

I love your comment about 'a rolling stew of language being a great thing if some powerful evocative aroma comes out of it…..'

 

A rolling stew describes much of what I write…...

 

Interesting thought about prog…….. I have a tune of the '89 vintage for the chorus, but I don't think it's right, so I'll give prog some consideration.

I'm thinking a Justin Hayward approach maybe…….

 

Don't use the Mozart analogy - madness lies there - it's like saying, "I want to write songs like Paul Simon does".

 

 

 

[oldgitplayer]

So this is the direction I'll take until I get some music going. Most of the suggestions have been incorporated + a few of my own.

 

Stepping stones………….. Burton (1989) ©

 

V1

I'm a refugee of madness

Locked in a broken dream

A lost and lonely traveller

With nothing to redeem

The threshold of my waking

May be far or near

When end brings new beginning

It's purpose disappears

 

Chorus

Searching for the mythical Garden

There may be nothing to find

Stepping stones across the skyways

Stepping stones across my mind

 

V2

The falling of night's curtain

Astride Methuselah's dream

I long for morning's breaking

Though nothing's what it seeems

The sideshows in the carnival

The freaks and mirrored maze

Magic men with sleight of hand

Confuse my careless days

 

Bridge

Itinerant fools of fortune live

With hearts confused by fear

All angels bound and gagged

A hundred million years

While caravans of pleasure

Cross the sands of time

Who knows how to measure

What wanders through my mind

 

Chorus

Searching for the mythical Garden

There may be nothing to find

Stepping stones across the skyways

Stepping stones across my mind

[LCK]

.... hmmmmm ....

 

You seem to have junked this:

 

Caravans of pleasure

Well-travelled sands of time

Not knowing how to measure

What wanders through your mind

 

That's one my favorite bits, especially the last two lines...

[oldgitplayer]

No - it's still there in slightly modified form as the final 4 lines of the Bridge

[LCK]

No - it's still there in slightly modified form as the final 4 lines of the Bridge

 

Oops! Yep, there it is.

 

It's funny, I'm talking to you from NYC on this forum, while discussing dogs with a California woman living in New Zealand on my Facebook page...

[oldgitplayer]

4 different time zones to cover - you are truly a multinational……..

[DonnaMarilyn]

Looking good, OGP. On first reading the original, I felt it was reminiscent of a lot of early prog rock. Restructuring and tightening up the piece has made it more compelling. And the various image-rich lines can mean different things to different people.

[oldgitplayer]

And the various image-rich lines can mean different things to different people.

 

You have put your finger on the central direction of 90% of my songwriting. I'm not attempting to direct a person's experience, but hopefully that the song may help people to feel / recognise their own experience and articulate it for themselves.

 

For anyone who may be interested in different songwriting processes, this song was a not written with conscious intent. It spilled out steadily as a series of about 20 quatrains written as rhyming couplets.

When I posted the song, I had no real idea what it was about, and edited out 50% of the quatrains.

I then coupled up quatrains into verses, a chorus and a bridge in order to discover a central idea that was buried beneath it all.

And that's how it has ended up what it is.

 

Only about 10% of my songs get written this way. The rest start with an idea which is consciously developed.

 

[DonnaMarilyn]

For anyone who may be interested in different songwriting processes, this song was a not written with conscious intent. It spilled out steadily as a series of about 20 quatrains written as rhyming couplets.

 

This doesn't surprise me. I forgot to mention in my previous post that, as well as prog rock, the piece read as though it had been written as stream of consciousness. It's a method I occasionally use as well, then - maybe - tighten up later.

 

Sometimes what emerges is surprising.

[smross]

I like it. I wouldn't scrap it. Especially if the lyrics hold special meaning top you.