Members Oswlek Posted September 25, 2014 Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 EDIT: New Demo with a more developed layout. Lyric changed slightly, but not that needs to be typed up. To Be Good - demo5 -------------------------------- Channeling my frustration into a project I've been meaning to write for a while. V1 is totally nebulous at this point. There will be 3 or 4 stanzas and the only one that has even partially formed now is just a placeholder to pass along the structure; AAB CCB. I don't mind the current V1 stanza (wherever it ends up falling), but I'd prefer it to be less passive. Instead of faith scurrying off while I wasn't looking, it disappeared because I actually spent time learning about what I was supposed to have faith in. The bridge is just a sketch, not sold on it yet. As always, pass along anything you think would aid the song. Thanks. Demo HERE EDIT - this is an updated lyric. The one actually sung is below. Alright, I think this is coming together. Still debating Lee's P and F words, anything else in need of firming up? Should I be concerned about "die for me" leading into "I'm afraid to die"? Could V2 be tightened up a little or is the casual aspect of it a plus? Any way to get the consistent rhyme at the end of V1 stanzas or is that not necessary? V1 Early Sunday morning Parishioners still pouring in For weekly mass It used to hold such meaning I'm running out of reasons To keep up the act Tell me how these burdens Threats of endless burning Make a better man C I don't need a God to be good I don't need this holy book I can't believe It takes a man to bleed And die for me To be good V2 Now I'm free to make mistakes I make 'em every day It's just who I am I don't have to be forgiven Or worry if I'm livin' By some fvcking plan C I don't need a God to be good I don't need this holy book I can't believe It takes a man to bleed And die for me To be good B Yeah, I'm afraid to die But I don't have to lie to myself Or hide from a hell That He built C I don't need a God to be good I don't need this holy book I can't believe It takes a man to bleed And die for me... die for me.... To be good ------------------------------- SUNG LYRIC V1 {Scene setting with talk of pews and Sunday morning and the like for a few stanzas} Early Sunday morning Parishioners still pouring in For weekly mass {I was brought there every Sunday Taught to kneel and pray So that's what I did} {Somewhere along the way I lost whatever faith I once had} C I don't need a God to be good I don't need this holy book I don't believe It takes a man to bleed And die for me To be good V2 Now I'm free to make mistakes I make them every day It's just who I am I don't have to be forgiven Or worry if I'm livin' By some fvcking plan C I don't need a God to be good I don't need this holy book I don't believe It takes a man to bleed And die for me To be good B Yeah, I'm afraid to die But I don't have to lie to myself Or hide from a hell That He built C I don't need a God to be good I don't need this holy book I don't believe It takes a man to bleed And die for me To be good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mbfrancis Posted September 25, 2014 Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 Wow, this is great stuff. What I really like is that there's cool theme and arc - through learning you came to your current position. I love that.* Maybe start with a set up of what you were taught when you were a kid (i.e., morality/ethics require religion), and then how the more you learned the more you grew away from it. What you have now for v1 is very much telling vs. showing.* You could talk about learning by observing immoral religious hypocrites, but that's kind of an easy target. We all know good and bad people who believe and don't. What's cool to me is the development, and the intellectual case you make in v2.* I think calling it an 'unholy book' is needlessly alienating to people who might otherwise be sympathetic. Call it holy, the message still comes through. Of course you could just fill this with anti-religious invective and you'd get a lot of people on side, but I think you have the potential to carry a lot more people by almost making an intellectual case, like you do in v2. Make it about you and what you learned about yourself and let people identify, rather than casting religious people as stupid or hypocritical, and you'll have a more powerful piece of work. (Or maybe save that for the bridge.) My $.02. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted September 25, 2014 Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 I don't need God to be goodI don't need this unholy bookI don't believeIt takes a man to bleedAnd die for meTo be good This is great, but I think you can get across the same message without the reference to the 'unholy book'. It really jumped out at me and seems a bit over the top. I think you could provide a subtle, more powerful message without coming across so 'anti'. Also, I wonder if you should avoid using 'good' twice in the same passage. Maybe something like: I don't need a God who's goodI don't even think I couldPretend to believeIt takes a man to bleed...To die for meDo you think I should? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted September 25, 2014 Author Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 Thanks guys. Martin, that's a great idea to change it to "holy", gets the exact same idea across without pushing the offense level off the charts. You got exactly what I was going for, V1 as a "I was taught this, but learned it isn't necessary" with V2 demonstrating that I find it liberating that is probably isn't so". I don't want to taunt or accuse anyone, but I do want to make my displeasure clear. Justin, thanks for also pointing out "unholy" pushed too far, does making it "holy" fix your problem? As for "good".... that line is the premise of the entire song. That morality isn't bestowed upon us in a perfect handbook or imprinted on our DNA by some all powerful deity, it is the result of centuries of human and societal interaction as well as the empathy we see all across the animal kingdom. I don't need to believe in God to be a good man. I could take it a step further and say that I find the entire religious dogma offensive.... that a loving God would create me with the demand that I worship him or else spend an eternity in hell... what kind of love is that? Imagine if our parents - who can actually be scientifically demonstrated to have created us - held the same belief? Even worse is that God is all knowing, so he was fully aware from the moment of conception that I'd be cursed to eternal torment. Don't even get me started on why it takes an all powerful being genocide and torture to forgive mankind. Yeah, I'll take man made morality over that, than you very much. I'm not sure how much of ^that^ I want in there, but I do want "to be good" to be both important and clear. Interestingly, you reshaped to "God to be good" as if I worried it might be taken. It isn't supposed to come off as whether God is good or bad, it is supposed to say that I don't need God at all to be a decent person. To try to make that clear as well as fixing "unholy" and adding a possible V1 stanza, I've made a few edits to the OP. Thanks for the feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted September 25, 2014 Author Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 I added a new stanza to open V1. I like how it sets the scene as being one morning in time instead of cummulative. It also opens the door to V1 being what I'm seeing and feeling while sitting there wishing I was somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted September 25, 2014 Author Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 Recorded a camera demo to RN to pass along the idea. http://www.reverbnation.com/justinos...recorded-demo1 I sang this lyric, but the red is just filler and I'd love some ideas. The camera apparently thought I was too quiet to bother recording, but at the very end I go through the verse progression one more time and end on the 3rd chord. V1Early Sunday morningParishioners still pouring inFor weekly mass {I was brought there every SundayTaught to kneel and prayI didn't ask} {Somewhere along the wayI lost whatever faithI once had} CI don't need a God to be goodI don't need this holy bookI can't believeIt takes a man to bleedAnd die for meTo be good V2Now I'm free to make mistakesI make them every dayIt's just who I am I don't have to be forgivenOr worry if I'm livin'By some fvcking plan CI don't need a God to be goodI don't need this holy bookI can't believeIt takes a man to bleedAnd die for meTo be good BYeah, I'm afraid to dieBut I don't have to lie to myselfOr hide from a hellThat He built CI don't need a God to be goodI don't need this holy bookI can't believeIt takes a man to bleedAnd die for meTo be good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted September 25, 2014 Moderators Share Posted September 25, 2014 Nice lyric coming together. Nice input too. Can't listen just yet. As I looked at the title some classic Talking Heads was playing... and the phrase To Be Good, in isolation, takes on a wonderful multi-syntactic meaning. The one you use, and the, : posing an idea for evaluation. To be good... Which leads me to suggest you might explore using the title as hook phrase in overlaid backups to support the latter meaning. Nice stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted September 25, 2014 Author Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 Hmmm... Lee, I'm not quite getting what you are saying. Care to elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted September 25, 2014 Author Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 Link was wrong, so that's been fixed. Click here or any of the links above. Listening, I think I'll drop down on "book" to the same note as "good" the first time through the chorus. Maybe even the second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mbfrancis Posted September 25, 2014 Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 1) I want some of whatever Lee's smoking.2) Just my opinion but, I think v1 needs to work *a lot* harder, needs to pull more exposition weight. In this verse you need to say:* When I was young I was taught that you needed God to be a good person* I was taught that mankind *needed* God, that we were weak* I believed this* But the more I read and learned and experienced life, the more I realized this was false (maybe provide some examples of learning - how did you learn this (the adulterating pastor, the kindly unbeliever, dunno)* Specifically, I learned that everyone can be good, just by themselves And... to the chorus This can be sketched quickly with a few tight lines I think, but I don't think you you can afford to hanging out for two stanzas describing what happens at church. Hope this helps - I could be totally wrong here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted September 25, 2014 Author Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 Martin, V1 as it is written is NOT what the final will be. The red stanzas are just placeholder. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I may end up keeping V1 in the church, just with me mentally expanding on why I think it is BS, which will delve into a lot of what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhino55 Posted September 25, 2014 Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 I disagree with part of your last comment francis, kind of sort of not really. I think specific examples that show how you learned this would be good, but I'd stay away from from the adulterating pastor kind of stuff. That would make this come across as just another bitter song about church and would be too predictable. I think keeping a positive focus will make this one work much better. Food for thought, the story of The Good Samaratian points out the hypocrisy of religious types while using the "kindly unbeliever" as the hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted September 25, 2014 Author Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 Thanks, Ryan. I had no plans on going into an abusive pastor or anything like that. Don't even need the kindly unbeliever, I think. Religion has more than enough logic holes to exploit without going down those paths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted September 25, 2014 Moderators Share Posted September 25, 2014 I'm only on coffee! To be good, as you're using it, is the end of a phrase. See the end of the chorus. But the isolated phrase, to be good, is almost a question in the poetic sense. It sounds like an essay by Ben Franklin. To be good. So... By using it in isolation in your backups would support that alternate usage. And I now realize this concept is impossible for me to get across so please disregard. Nevermind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted September 25, 2014 Author Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 I'm only on coffee! To be good' date=' as you're using it, is the end of a phrase. See the end of the chorus. But the isolated phrase, to be good, is almost a question in the poetic sense. It sounds like an essay by Ben Franklin. To be good. So... By using it in isolation in your backups would support that alternate usage. And I now realize this concept is impossible for me to get across so please disregard. Nevermind[/quote'] Ha! No, I'm starting to get it. Have the BV sing "to be good" at various places, right? When you get a chance to listen, feel free to pass along when and how you hear them. Assuming I'm getting it, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhino55 Posted September 25, 2014 Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 Thanks' date=' Ryan. I had no plans on going into an abusive pastor or anything like that. Don't even need the kindly unbeliever, I think. Religion has more than enough logic holes to exploit without going down those paths.[/quote'] Anybody can point out logic holes in any system of beliefs if they want to. Without defining what you mean by "good" you're opening this up to the possibility for similar criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mbfrancis Posted September 25, 2014 Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 I disagree with part of your last comment francis, kind of sort of not really. I think specific examples that show how you learned this would be good, but I'd stay away from from the adulterating pastor kind of stuff. That would make this come across as just another bitter song about church and would be too predictable. I think keeping a positive focus will make this one work much better. Food for thought, the story of The Good Samaratian points out the hypocrisy of religious types while using the "kindly unbeliever" as the hero. Agree 100%, needs to be something less obvious. (Samaritans *were* believers, though - they were just despised by Jews and vice-versa. Otherwise that would be perfect.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted September 25, 2014 Author Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 Anybody can point out logic holes in any system of beliefs if they want to. Without defining what you mean by "good" you're opening this up to the possibility for similar criticism. I'm not sure I agree with this, Ryan. First off, while this is clearly a dig at Christianity, it is my opinion that they are all mistaken. This is not a one vs. another situation. More importantly, though, is that if I say to someone, "what does believing an all powerful God would need to resort to genocide and human sacrifice as forgiveness techniques have anything to do with being a good person?" there is little need to expound upon what "good" means to get the gist. Not that I'm against the idea of elaborating, just that it isn't a top priority given the limited space available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhino55 Posted September 25, 2014 Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 But by not expounding on what good means, you're leaving what you're saying open for people to poke holes in the logic. I don't want to start a debate on theology. It might seem that way, but I promise on my list of things to do today, I do not have start a theological debate on the internet. By only saying "to be good," and I really like LK suggestions for that as a background vocal BTW, and leaving it there... I think it doesn't carry the weight it should because you're telling us you're good without showing us what that means. If you were to tell me your "more importantly..." question I would still ask you to define what being good means. Our whole system of western morals is based on that book. There has been alot of fvcked up sh*t done its name, but that doesn't take away from the fact that without it or some other system of deity our ancestors would never have developed the morals that we appreciate today. That's like a teenager calling his parents on a phone they pay for from a car they gave him, and him saying he doesn't need them anymore so they should leave him alone. If you're trying to say we are or can be passed it, I think that could work, but why? How? The obvious choice would be love, that is if you are willing to call it an absolute truth of sorts. You could drive that home with a bridge, another verse, or even a changed up chorus that says you don't need whatever to love your neighbor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted September 25, 2014 Author Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 "Our whole system of western morals is based on that book." I vehemently disagree with this. In fact, my disagreement with that line of thinking is the crux of this entire song. "If you're trying to say we are or can be passed it...." No, I'm trying to say that it is BS and always has been, and that it has little or nothing to do with morality as we know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhino55 Posted September 25, 2014 Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 Ok, do you think there is right and wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted September 25, 2014 Author Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 One more... "I think it doesn't carry the weight it should because you're telling us you're good without showing us what that means. " Granted, showing would carry more weight, but most everyone understands what it takes to be a good person. And the main point isn't to say, "I'm good!" it is to point out that I don't need to live my life with some phantom scorecard next to my name, having been branded a sinner and a terrible person unless I bow down and worship some deity that has never been proven, with some book that is so flawed it reads far more like the marginally informed ramblings of our ancestors than any divine wisdom. I can be a good person without the burden of what is tantamount to emotional abuse. I can live without carrying that weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted September 25, 2014 Author Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 Ok' date=' do you think there is right and wrong?[/quote'] Not sure where you are going with this, but generally speaking, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhino55 Posted September 25, 2014 Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 Not really going anywhere with it. I was just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted September 25, 2014 Author Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 I was imaging that you had a long path laid out depending on which I chose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.