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Talk About Anything But Donald Trump and Politics


bee3

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So I've been coming here to this forum for 3 years... and have witnessed periods of high activity and low activity. I believe we're in a lull now... and I'm as guilty as anyone with not posting much for long periods of time. I tend to slip away and not post when I'm not actively working on anything. Such has been the case for the past few months.

 

That said... do we always rebound? Some of you who have been around for a long time... what are the trends? When was the golden age? smile.png

 

Do we need to recruit?

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I wasn't thinking of recruiting from there... I have some friends that might be interested. Guys who are getting more into 'songwriting' as opposed to just being 'guys in a band'.

 

 

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Yeah, MM has it's rough spots. Oddly enough, the biggest problem isn't people being unfriendly, it is the growing clique that sneers at anyone who has the gall to suggest a post isn't absolutely perfect. They don't seem to get that gratuitous pats on the back, while pleasant, don't actually help anyone get better.

 

I recently got into a spat with someone about another pet peeve of mine... the overly-flowery-comment-that-pretends-to-be-insightful-but-is-ultimately-meaningless.

 

In retrospect, I should have just let it pass, but I still stand by what I said. If anyone wants to follow along, just click here and scroll down to post #27.

 

All that said, there are a number of talented, generous people on that site. I'd say that I've received equally valuable feedback from both there and here. Some songs, like "All in Good Time", really needed both to ring everything out of.

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Yeah, MM has it's rough spots. Oddly enough, the biggest problem isn't people being unfriendly, it is the growing clique that sneers at anyone who has the gall to suggest a post isn't absolutely perfect. They don't seem to get that gratuitous pats on the back, while pleasant, don't actually help anyone get better.

 

I recently got into a spat with someone about another pet peeve of mine... the overly-flowery-comment-that-pretends-to-be-insightful-but-is-ultimately-meaningless.

 

In retrospect, I should have just let it pass, but I still stand by what I said. If anyone wants to follow along, just click here and scroll down to post #27.

 

All that said, there are a number of talented, generous people on that site. I'd say that I've received equally valuable feedback from both there and here. Some songs, like "All in Good Time", really needed both to ring everything out of.

 

Yeah, it was a non-answer that only existed so he could post something. He's thin skinned and pretentious. But what really bums me out about the place is the never-ending stream of stuff like this:

 

http://www.musesmuse.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=58423

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If anything, I may post there as well, simply because feedback on this site - while incredibly insightful and helpful - generally comes from the same 5-6 people. Not being ungrateful, but it might for example be nice to get a woman's perspective, or from someone under 30, etc.

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First off, I like everyone here. You all have been helpful to me in the past so do not take this as a personal shot to anyone..it's intended towards this section called, "SONGWRITING WORKSHOP"

 

Well from somewhat of a newbee's perspective I gotta say, this site really isn't to inviting.

 

Some members here, although they might not mean to, kinda come off as snooty (is that even a word) LOL

 

Let's get back to what this forum section is called, "SONGWRITING WORKSHOP"

 

Not everyone who writes lyrics is able to play guitar or if they can play they are unable to write music for thier lyrics and/or record them in a way that all six current members here can, SO, when on occasion just a lyric is posted without music they have been passed by without comment and I can say from my own experience that a few of you posted in one of my topics that you don't comment just on lyrics alone and if there is no music with it you don't bother.

 

There were a few new members that have not posted here in a while that actually submitted links to them playing music to thier lyrics and in thier original topic they noted that thier guitar playing was not all that good and just asked for suggestions on their lyric only but a couple members still responded back about their guitar playing also.

 

 

There have been other new members, since I've been here, that have posted lyrics and not even a cricket responded. This section is called "SONGWRITING WORKSHOP" but most of you treat it like it has to have music included or it's not worth your time.

 

 

A question was asked if you all thought it was a good idea to recruit from the MM site. The best recruiting in my opinion is by making this place feel more welcome to everyone who comes here. IMO

 

I'm sure the members over at MM have google searched songwriting sites and already know about this site. It's up to the current members here to leave a welcome mat at the door for them.

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Hey Foose... thanks for the feedback. For me at least, it's well taken... and as it turns out, I'm one of those people who has trouble reviewing just a lyric. I prefer to hear it within the context of a song, and frankly, we have really good lyric people on this site (LCK, oldguitarplayer, Oswlek, LeeKnight) who can do it much more justice than I. But your point is a good one and I'm going to take it to heart.

 

I've learned a TON on this site and have somewhat of an allegiance here. That said, I do enjoy all that MM has to offer and have absolutely no knocks on it whatsoever.

 

We do need to get back on our feet in my opinion. My original question was geared towards the legacy members here... has it always ebbed and flowed like this?

 

 

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First off, I like everyone here. You all have been helpful to me in the past so do not take this as a personal shot to anyone..it's intended towards this section called, "SONGWRITING WORKSHOP"

 

Well from somewhat of a newbee's perspective I gotta say, this site really isn't to inviting.

 

Some members here, although they might not mean to, kinda come off as snooty (is that even a word) LOL

 

Let's get back to what this forum section is called, "SONGWRITING WORKSHOP"

 

Not everyone who writes lyrics is able to play guitar or if they can play they are unable to write music for thier lyrics and/or record them in a way that all six current members here can, SO, when on occasion just a lyric is posted without music they have been passed by without comment and I can say from my own experience that a few of you posted in one of my topics that you don't comment just on lyrics alone and if there is no music with it you don't bother.

 

There were a few new members that have not posted here in a while that actually submitted links to them playing music to thier lyrics and in thier original topic they noted that thier guitar playing was not all that good and just asked for suggestions on their lyric only but a couple members still responded back about their guitar playing also.

 

 

There have been other new members, since I've been here, that have posted lyrics and not even a cricket responded. This section is called "SONGWRITING WORKSHOP" but most of you treat it like it has to have music included or it's not worth your time.

 

 

A question was asked if you all thought it was a good idea to recruit from the MM site. The best recruiting in my opinion is by making this place feel more welcome to everyone who comes here. IMO

 

I'm sure the members over at MM have google searched songwriting sites and already know about this site. It's up to the current members here to leave a welcome mat at the door for them.

 

Wow. I totally disagree. The reason attendance is down is because attendance is down site-wide. For us to start dancing the "We-must-have-done-something!" dance would be a mistake. Not welcoming enough? You're here Foose. Why? My guess is because you were welcomed. You got the MO and it worked for you in one fashion or another. You put work into it and you were treated with the attention you deserve.

 

You went back and re-wrote line after line due to input. And stuck by your guns on stuff that you knew was the way you wanted it. But when someone comes along and pretty much has it all figured out and is surprised when someone might think different... why am I putting my time in giving input?

 

So if you feel that people are being ignored, step up and stop ignoring them. As far as I see, the people around here give way more than they receive. THAT's how we re-build a community.

 

And Bee, I don't know if we'll ever come back. I hope so, so I'm sticking around for now to help rebuild.

 

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So if you feel that people are being ignored, step up and stop ignoring them. As far as I see, the people around here give way more than they receive. THAT's how we re-build a community.

 

And Bee, I don't know if we'll ever come back. I hope so, so I'm sticking around for now to help rebuild.

This is how I'm taking the feedback... I'm going to get out there and review more! I'm guilty as charged. Throw the book at me. No more unexcused absences!!!

 

 

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You got the MO and it worked for you in one fashion or another.

I think this is the point that probably hits home... there is a culture here. Works for some, not for others. I don't agree that MusesMuse is all flowery feedback... although, I have yet to see a Lee Knight'ish post... but let's face it, LeeK is one of a kind. :)

 

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This is how I'm taking the feedback... I'm going to get out there and review more! I'm guilty as charged. Throw the book at me. No more unexcused absences!!!

 

 

:) Ah well... that's great. But I really didn't mean that sound like pointing fingers at anyone. And I wasn't. The point I was trying to make is that...

 

THIS IS NOT A SERVICE, THIS IS A COMMUINITY

 

This is not a place where you can post a lyric and get stroked. On the contrary, very likely you might get the opposite. Bee, you give plenty of input. As does Foose. So let's start running around pointing fingers looking for who's to blame? No thanks, forget it. I get enough of that on FB from my "politically aware" friends demonizing Obama and George W.

 

But Foose, to further make my point. Those people who have been ignored in your opinion, how much input and feedback did they give? I am not interested in servicing whoever needs it at the time unless they've put it in the bank. And yet I do anyway. Not welcoming?

 

DAMN RIGHT.

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But Foose, to further make my point. Those people who have been ignored in your opinion, how much input and feedback did they give? I am not interested in servicing whoever needs it at the time unless they've put it in the bank. And yet I do anyway. Not welcoming?

 

DAMN RIGHT.

 

 

Maybe some forum "Courtesy Rules" can be stickied at the top for the new members letting them know whats expected from them before they post.

Some folks might not know how it works around here.

 

I had probably 100 posts commenting on others work before I even posted mine. LOL

 

Hey for the record, I love it here and I'm on Harmony Centrals side. I come here everyday even though I haven't posted in a while till today.

 

I really enjoy the members here and would love to see this place grow.

 

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Honestly, I don't think from MM's perspective, it's an us vs them mentality. Well, maybe one person has voiced displeasure with his experience here. Others don't care at all as far as I can tell.

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Yeah, it was a non-answer that only existed so he could post something. He's thin skinned and pretentious. But what really bums me out about the place is the never-ending stream of stuff like this:

 

http://www.musesmuse.com/forums/inde...howtopic=58423

 

Hey! I really like Donna. She's one of the better lyricists over there and is one of the few who is genuinely interested in critical feedback. She also provides intelligent comments on others' work. Even if all that weren't true, I think that lyric is pretty cool. It isn't what I would write, but that's a good thing. I can get exposure to lots of different styles while still spending most of my listening time with stuff I enjoy. :)

 

So we're going to rebound?

 

I don't know. Maybe. When Leek is very active this place seems to have a great energy about it, otherwise it is pretty tame. I'm in the middle of a drought, so I'm as much to blame as anyone else, but it would be nice if the life of this forum wasn't so dependent on one member.

 

Not being ungrateful, but it might for example be nice to get a woman's perspective, or from someone under 30, etc.

 

That topic just came up on MM recently, that only 25% of the members were female.... which ended up being about double what most people experienced in more live songwriting settings, like open mics. It seems that you just aren't going to find that many women lurking around these parts.

 

Let's get back to what this forum section is called, "SONGWRITING WORKSHOP"

 

Not everyone who writes lyrics is able to play guitar or if they can play they are unable to write music for thier lyrics and/or record them in a way that all six current members here can, SO, when on occasion just a lyric is posted without music they have been passed by without comment and I can say from my own experience that a few of you posted in one of my topics that you don't comment just on lyrics alone and if there is no music with it you don't bother.

 

I get what you are saying, Foose, but it is just a fact that music of any kind makes it much easier to offer feedback. Not only easier, but more meaningful feedback because even a simple demo illustrates melody, phrasing, chords, beat, delivery... all of which can completely color the lyric. I'd even go as far as saying that those factors take precedence over the lyric, but I'm much more drawn to audio than words.

 

Frankly, we've seen much the same thing over on MM. That's why they have a lyric forum and a songs forum, because many members (the majority of them, in fact) either can't or won't comment on lyric only threads. If anything, I'd say this site has a higher percentage of its members commenting on both music and lyrics.

 

There were a few new members that have not posted here in a while that actually submitted links to them playing music to thier lyrics and in thier original topic they noted that thier guitar playing was not all that good and just asked for suggestions on their lyric only but a couple members still responded back about their guitar playing also.

 

Were those comments about their playing or how the music supported the melody and lyric? That's a big distinction. Something tells me it was the latter, which I think is acceptable even in light of the disclaimer. Illustrating how the lyric fit the melody was why the link was posted, after all.

 

There have been other new members, since I've been here, that have posted lyrics and not even a cricket responded.

 

Sure, but that happens over on MM as well. Often it is a function of timing more than anything. I've posted songs (with and without demos) that ended up going four pages that took three or four days to even garner a single reply. I've had to bump songs in an effort to try to get eyeballs back on them. That's just the way things are.

 

FWIW, I just scanned through two pages of forum threads and of 40 threads, only 6 had three comments or less. Two involved someone posting another artist's lyrics, two were blatant spam and one was someone inquiring about the search function. Only one was a song left out in the cold (with a link, no less). All the rest had a good amount of discussion on them, at least comparable to MM. Many of these threads involved non-regular artists.

 

IMO, a big part of what rubs people the wrong way is what I admire most about the regulars here, that we're willing to speak the unvarnished truth. I don't enjoy a butt kicking from LCK about my lyric, or Leek about the melody, but nothing beats seeing my song emerge from it all in much better shape. Can we be a tad too unvarnished at times? Sure, but I'd offer that artists are naturally sensitive and egotistical, so there will never be a perfect balance. Someone will always feel initially put off when told their work isn't perfect.

 

Despite debating some of the finer points, you're comments are particularly useful because you are the most active of the newcomers. If you feel this way, obviously others do as well. I'm not always around, but I'll do what I can to roll out a friendlier red carpet moving forward. :)

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