​Songwriting and the Pareto Principle...

[Lee Knight]

Songwriting and the Pareto Principle...

 

...combined with Parkinson's Law. First:

 

The Pareto Principle. Or the... 80/20 law.

 

In 1906 Vilfredo Pareto, an Italian economist, noticed 80% of Italian property was owned by 20% of the population. Clearly these numbers have shifted for the worse today. Vilfredo found the idea to be even more widespread than he thought at first. In his garden he found that 20% of the pea pods produced 80% of the peas. Some modern day types took the principle and did further research.

 

Per Wiki,

 

In Business

80% of a company's profits come from 20% of its customers

80% of a company's complaints come from 20% of its customers

80% of a company's profits come from 20% of the time its staff spend

80% of a company's sales come from 20% of its products

80% of a company's sales are made by 20% of its sales staff

 

In Software

Microsoft noted that by fixing the top 20% of the most-reported bugs, 80% of the related errors and crashes in a given system would be eliminated.

In load testing, it is common practice to estimate that 80% of the traffic occurs during 20% of the time.

In software engineering, Lowell Arthur expressed a corollary principle: "20 percent of the code has 80 percent of the errors. Find them, fix them!"

 

In hazard prevention, quality control, criminology (80% of crimes are committed by 20% of criminals)

 

In songwriting? In applying this concept to songwriting, you could say, 20% of the songwriter's time produced 80% of the song. "Yeah... but I'm looking for GREAT, not just good. That 20% is all the difference." It is, isn't it? Or is it? I'd argue not ALL of the difference. 20% of it. Worthwhile in art for sure.

 

But hey, then there's...

 

Parkinson's law - "Work expands so as to fill the time available for its completion". If I give you a week, it's going to take a week. If I give you an hour... If you wait until the last minute, it only takes a minute to do. Data expands to fill the space available for storage and storage requirements will increase to meet storage capacity.

 

So there's that! ^^^

 

What about that last 20% that makes all the difference in art? In SONGWRITING?!?!

 

Funny thing about Parkinson's law, not only does it compress the time needed to complete a task, that compressed time frame can lead to better work. What? How!?!?

 

Focus.

 

If Stick (and now OGP) creates a Songwriting Challenge. We all have a choice if we want to play. Intending to play, we say, "I'm busy now, I'll come up with something later." But why not "Let me just dash off some nonsense while I got a second. Get it to a certain point and assume there will have to be a phase 2 on this. Just quick-like. I got 20 minutes" I can tell you which one works for me and which one doesn't.

 

We read the challenge, we get an idea of how we might meet that challenge, then we say... "I'll have to get to that." And up goes the idea, into the ether from whence it came. By applying the idea that 80% of your final song is going to come from 20% of your time and energy spent on it, and by taking advantage of Parkinson's law, utilizing self imposed deadlines to stimulate focus and output.

 

I find by saying, "Let me just take a few minutes to seize this right NOW," makes all the difference between something with bite and just 'eh, what's this about?'

 

We end up with something. With BITE! Crunch. And I can only imagine that sculptors covet the 'master slice'. The one that takes 80% of the material away. Because it was inspired. Focused. Alive. Not tentative but bold. And righter than we might ever imagine. Driven by fire; that focus that Parkinson's law can bring.

 

And then we can go spend that 80% of our time to get that last 20% per Pareto. The advantage of this method? You end up with a lot more ideas fleshed out by 80%!

 

Thoughts?

 

(the above ramble is inspired by Timothy Ferriss' writings, blame him)

[Lee Knight]

To take this further...

 

​So I've knocked out that awesome 80%. It think we can all relate with this. Oh crap... what to do with that 20%? 20% is the new 100%. And again, look for the 20% that will bring you 80% reward.

 

Getting buried in minutia can be a crutch. At least for me it can be. Looking at the page dissecting rhyme and prosody and syllable count and... ALL IMPORTANT THINGS... but just record the thing in your phone. Listen to it. Where's it falling short. Where and what is that 20% that will bring that 80% return? Then apply the concepts of rhyme and prosody and...

 

I'm not suggesting any of the above aren't important. But rather, that they are there to serve the song and not the other way 'round. Take off a big chunk of granite. The right chunk. Take off the next smaller piece. The right piece. Rinse and do it again.

 

Don't waste time on minimal return. If it's important after the important things, then it is. Working in a highest return priority can speed the whole thing up and it tends to make for better work from me...

 

How about you?

 

[rhino55]

I don't tend to think about things in those terms, but that all makes sense.

 

I think it was Mark Twain that said "The secret of getting ahead is getting started." I've seen it said here and other places too that the secret to writing songs is to write songs.

 

I think as songwriters we get used to a certain process and wait for the inspiration to come in that particular order. A trick I've learned is to mix things up. Typically for me a song starts with a guitar, then melody and lyrics. If I haven't written anything in a week or so and nothing is jumping out, I'll start a lyric, and then work in reverse order.

 

Saying the reason we haven't written anything in a while is because we haven't been inspired is a cop out. The real reason we haven't written anything in a while is because we haven't made ourselves write something. We're waiting for inspiration to get started. {censored} that. Get started and the inspiration will come.

[Lee Knight]

I don't tend to think about things in those terms, but that all makes sense.

 

I think it was Mark Twain that said "The secret of getting ahead is getting started." I've seen it said here and other places too that the secret to writing songs is to write songs.

 

I think as songwriters we get used to a certain process and wait for the inspiration to come in that particular order. A trick I've learned is to mix things up. Typically for me a song starts with a guitar, then melody and lyrics. If I haven't written anything in a week or so and nothing is jumping out, I'll start a lyric, and then work in reverse order.

 

Saying the reason we haven't written anything in a while is because we haven't been inspired is a cop out. The real reason we haven't written anything in a while is because we haven't made ourselves write something. We're waiting for inspiration to get started. **************** that. Get started and the inspiration will come.

 

Exactly And oh... I don't think like that either.I don't think anyone does. It's easy to see the above as something you might think about and apply. That's kind of unwieldy I think. I find a better way to think about it is to catch yourself wasting time and energy and remember some of the concepts when needed.

 

"There I go getting buried in the minutia again. I don't even have a chord progression or melody yet."

 

Prioritizing your attention. That's all.

[rhino55]

I'm with you.

 

To go even further, I had a conversation with a friend last week that was along these lines. For the past few months I've had a weekly gig with a couple other songwriter types. Each person tends to bring a new song every week and this guy was asking me how we're able to write that much. I wasn't trying to be snarky or anything but the only answer I could give was because we write that much.

 

To quote a friend, "Don't see it as a challenge, see it as an opportunity." The biggest hurdle I see for creative types is the idea that they need to create something great. That's not true. Creative types need to create and it's ok to put something out there that sucks. Write it, paint it, sculpt it, whatever and move on to the next thing. Maturity and I'd argue greatness comes with consistently creating and recognizing what deserves that 80%.

 

[Lee Knight]

yes

[Lee Knight]

As musicians and songwriters, we've been known to say, "You may like that sweetie, but it's not really that great of a song." We hear how that chord progression's been used a million times and the false rhymes and whatever is our focus that week/month/year with our craft. And here the songwriter of the tune your chick digs knew enough to focus on this thing that is connecting with her. But.. THE RHYME SCHEME CHANGED FROM V1 TO V2! Honey! It's sucks!

 

I'm in no way suggesting that craft is unimportant. And yet, it can distract from what is more important if we don't get our priorities right. 20% for the 80% return.

[rhino55]

And I think that not everyone's priorities are going to be the same or should be the same. Hell, I don't think our priorities should stay the same for each song we write. I think mixing up priorities within the context of what we do is a good way to keep things fresh and keep us creating. Now that I think of it that's a good way to focus our creative juices and maybe spark that every elusive inspiration.

 

Last night a friend played a one chord song he'd just written. It was fantastic. I've never done that. I should do that.

 

Craft is important, but I think you're right, it isn't everything. I think instead of craft dictating the song, the song should dictate the craft.

[rickidoo]

To take this further...

 

Don't waste time on minimal return. If it's important after the important things, then it is. Working in a highest return priority can speed the whole thing up and it tends to make for better work from me...

 

How about you?

 

 

The Pareto Principle... is n/a with songwriting IMHO.

 

What statistically is true for me at least, is that 95% of the song snippets (quick phone recordings) do end up on my hard drive - I must have hundreds if not thousands generated over the last few years. 98% of them never go anywhere. These are kinda like scribbled notes on a sheet, only they are a recording, even if seconds long.

 

Sometimes, I take the song to the next level, and record a rough. I'd say a good half of these are abandoned. I had to record them to really get a better sense of the song.

 

And then, I usually have one song at any given time i am seriously recording and tweaking and retweaking... I do enjoy experimenting with arrangements and sounds and really, the only way to do that (for me) is to actually do it. Try this, try that and see if they work.

 

So, perhaps it just turns out for me that the Pareto Principle is at work, sort of by default. If a song is just a snippet, or if it grows into a full blown arrangement, it is the song that determines that, not any conscious decision on my part to stop at 20%.

 

Or maybe I am not understanding what the Pareto Principle is?

 

Rick

 

 

[Lee Knight]

 

 

The Pareto Principle... is n/a with songwriting IMHO.

 

What statistically is true for me at least, is that 95% of the song snippets (quick phone recordings) do end up on my hard drive - I must have hundreds if not thousands generated over the last few years. 98% of them never go anywhere. These are kinda like scribbled notes on a sheet, only they are a recording, even if seconds long.

 

Sometimes, I take the song to the next level, and record a rough. I'd say a good half of these are abandoned. I had to record them to really get a better sense of the song.

 

And then, I usually have one song at any given time i am seriously recording and tweaking and retweaking... I do enjoy experimenting with arrangements and sounds and really, the only way to do that (for me) is to actually do it. Try this, try that and see if they work.

 

So, perhaps it just turns out for me that the Pareto Principle is at work, sort of by default. If a song is just a snippet, or if it grows into a full blown arrangement, it is the song that determines that, not any conscious decision on my part to stop at 20%.

 

Or maybe I am not understanding what the Pareto Principle is?

 

Rick

 

 

 

I agree that there are serious limitations and contradictions to slapping on a concept like "The Knight Ultimatum!". Of course you're right in what you say, Rick. The principle is only of use to you only if it is of use to you. The way you've conceptualized your workflow... the principle doesn't apply. But it can if you found it useful at a later date. Look at any one single stage of your workflow you mention above. Now apply the principle. It's really just a way to identify the highest yielder.

 

After watching the videos you posted on creativity in later life, it occurred to me that there really is no contradiction between the concepts of the 10,000 hour rule for instance, and the 20/80 principle. You say you need to tinker at a mix and try things and learn and hit the jackpot then miss and try again... of course! I do the very same thing. But I do apply targeted thinking. Always.

 

Because the phrases "targeted thinking" and "free form experimentation" seem polar opposites doesn't mean they are. Your free form experimentation probably doesn't take the form of closing your eyes, putting ear plugs in, and adjusting eq and compression parameters. You listen, assess, adjust, assess, readjust.

 

More than likely you're targeting to some degree. Something like a the Pareto Principle is just a means of aiding you. Of offering some insight into these these. Or not if it is of no use.

 

Choose your tools. It's not for me to say.

 

 

[rsadasiv]

Statistical analysis is part of my day job, and "the 80/20 Rule" is one of my pet peeves. This statement of the Pareto principle is a gross oversimplification whose only use is to allow people to acknowledge the existence of power distributions without having to do any math beyond simple arithmetic.

[Lee Knight]

Statistical analysis is part of my day job' date=' and "the 80/20 Rule" is one of my pet peeves. This statement of the [b']Pareto principle is a gross oversimplification whose only use is to allow people to acknowledge the existence of power distributions without having to do any math beyond simple arithmetic.[/b]

 

That's exactly what it is!

[LCK]

Statistical analysis is part of my day job' date=' and "the 80/20 Rule" is one of my pet peeves. This statement of the Pareto principle is a gross oversimplification whose only use is to allow people to acknowledge the existence of power distributions without having to do any math beyond simple arithmetic.[/quote']

 

I skipped 5th grade. As a result I'm no good at multiplication or long division.

[LeonardScaper]

20% for the 80% return.

 

When I sit down to write I get 80% of the song done in no time at all.......but that first blasted out portion is only worth 20% of the finished product.

 

The last 20% of the song always takes 80% of the total time spent on the project and is definitely worth 80% of the finished product.

 

 

 

[LCK]

 

When I sit down to write I get 80% of the song done in no time at all.......but that first blasted out portion is only worth 20% of the finished product.

 

The last 20% of the song always takes 80% of the total time spent on the project and is definitely worth 80% of the finished product.

 

 

Interesting statistical dynamic. I think it applies to my songwriting as well.

[nat whilk II]

So what this means is that, over the sum total of time I spend songwriting in my lifetime, I'll be wasting basically 80% of my time. Thanks, Pareto, for the encouragement.

 

Just joshing. I get the point with regard to songwriting, regardless of statistical misuse and abuse. I love statistics, actually - was my favorite math course of all time. I've always felt that the thing everyone loves to say, that "you can get statistics to say anything" is not really accurate. You can certainly take a single statistic and disregard the fact that a single statistic says almost nothing due to it's narrow and exclusive focus - and generalize from it wrongly to "say anything". But that's not statistic's fault - that's just bad use of statistics.

 

nat whilk ii

[Oswlek]

I must confess to not seeing the applicability of the principle on songwriting, but it definitely seems like a good thing to keep in mind with mixing. Sometimes I can get bogged down spending an hour tweaking the EQ on the kick drum to find a perfect sound that no other listener will be able to tell from the first one instead of moving on fixing the more important issues... corrections that may actually eliminate the need to change the sound of the kick drum.

[Lee Knight]

Caution! Mobile phone formatting nightmare ahead... Wonderful insights from everyone! In a nutshell, my perspective on how this works with MY songwriting is... I can waste a lot of energy and time on things that don't make much of a difference. For ME, concentrating on the broad strokes, that have a major impact on my intentions as an artist, are worthwhile. The fine strokes frequently come within those very, very broad strokes. And then the next round gets more granular. In applying the same logic on that next round of more fine detail I like to remind myself of priorities; where's the meat of this, the most impactful changes? Of course if a fine detail strikes me and I'm hit by the muse, well hell, I move on it. I'm not stupid. :-) I completely understand why many may not see any usefulness and what I've put down here. For ME, this is just a way for me not to get distracted by things that really have no impact on the listener, and in turn, diluting my intent. Nothing written in stone of course, just a useful tool that I find helpful in guiding me through my day at work, and yes, in my songwriting. I've never set out with these ideas in mind, I only use it when I'm getting lost. When I'm losing that footlight sense of understanding impact on a listener. I get lost like that a lot! :-)

[Lee Knight]

Or more succinctly said, Strike Quick! Repeat. That's where the heart is. For me...

[Lee Knight]

So what this means is that' date=' over the sum total of time I spend songwriting in my lifetime, I'll be wasting basically 80% of my time. Thanks, Pareto, for the encouragement. nat whilk ii[/quote'] I know you're "just joshing" but you raise a great point. It bothers me too that a software developer may not see that other 80% as worthwhile. It is! But when the flood is coming you don't waste time dusting off the sandbags. You stack them where they are needed. I love looking at one of my "finished" lyrics and finding the rough spots. Wasted time? He'll no!

[Lee Knight]

Siri