How to write pseudo-fantasy lyrics without going OTT

[Fine_Young_Fool]

Hey all, I have been trying to write some songs lately, and need some good topics to come up with. I have been listening to a lot of Wolfmother lately (don't hate me), and I really like how the lyrics are very mysterious and strange and somewhat fantasy-ish.

 

Some of the examples of this would be Joker and the Thief, or Dimension.

 

I would like to know how to chose topics for songs like these and write lyrics that aren't too... epic metal I guess.

 

Being just a kid I have not had any truly life changing experiences, devastating romances, anything of that kind, and I need something to draw inspiration from.

 

Thanx,

The Fool

[samuraiBSD]

dreams work well. Surreal things you see on the street. Whatever you want, really. As your sig says, it's a free for all.

[Fine_Young_Fool]

I thought about dreams, I just don't have very exciting dreams.

 

Lately all I have been dreaming about is going back to school (YIKES!)

[bluesfella]

Two words my friend: Magic mushrooms.

[DougH]

Use the stories of others or a scene from a movie. You can write about whats on the news, an issue or cause. Read a movie synopsis and not watch the movie as to not be effected by the background music.

[bluesfella]

Magic mushrooms are still better.

[Fine_Young_Fool]

Yeah, well that is definately not an option.

[bluesfella]

Why not?

[samuraiBSD]

 

Why not?

 

 

well maybe he doesn't want to be arrested or overdose or something? I dunno, there's a lot of reasons why people don't want to get high

[bluesfella]

Haha ok. I was just joking around.

 

I'm still serious about the mushrooms though.

[kurdy]

Go to your local library and find the "fantasy" fiction section. There are a ton of authors that write fantasy or even sci-fi books that you might be able to draw inspiration from. Also watching movies can help too, I guess.

 

The point is, don't just listen to other bands to get lyrical ideas. Because then you may just wind up writing lyrics that sound too much like those bands. It's important to find your own voice as a songwriter.

[blue2blue]

OK... I have no business here, since I really don't listen to that kind of music and never really have. When I listened to metal, it tended to be about real life. The whole D'n'D thing went right past me.

 

(I wasn't into that fantasy stuff when I was a little kid. Why would I be drawn to it as an adult? When I was a kid, I read sci fi -- and hated space operas and fantasy stuff. I'm probably one of about five hippies who thought The Hobbit/Ring was boring beyond belief. I struggled to get through the first of the recent Ring movies and found myself really annoyed that I had. That said, my fantasy would be living in Hobbitville or whatever it's called. I mean, you want to talk about an attractive and completely unrealizable fantasy -- I wanna live in some little village spread out a long a babbling brook with big ol' trees overhanging everything protecting us... damn... that sounds good. Call it a senior fantasy.)

 

 

 

Anyhow... really the only reason I came in here was to just wonder what a pseudo-fantasy might be...

 

I mean, pseudo means fake... and fantasy means...

 

 

 

OK... go on about your business.

 

[Fine_Young_Fool]

semi-fantasy then. Mr. Smarty pants. And I do not mean like D and D or anything, I mean like lyrics that talk about things that do not really happen in real life, and are mysterious, not like epic metal or anything.

[blue2blue]

OK... I stand accused -- and guilty as charged!

 

 

And, actually, I think I do kind of know what you mean and I am interested in the surreal and the symbolic.

 

I was just givin' ya a hard time...

 

[bluesfella]

Just write about random bull{censored}. {censored} that doesn't have anything to do with anything, but that sounds cool. It isn't that hard. I wrote the following one time when i was high:

 

Towers made of lights

are glaring to the skies

road reflections down right in your eyes

 

she walked into the sea

where she will find me

the gold light in the fright will be the key

 

 

in the fire of a thousand years

there are way too many tears

rainbow colored roses

bury the castle that he choses in the mirr'

 

I didn't need shrooms for that, even weed works also. That {censored} comes close to pink floyd in terms of vagueness. I don't even know what it's about, i just wrote some random {censored} down in 5 minutes. If it's vague enough, people will come up with theories of what it's about. I bet the members of pink floyd don't even know what most their spacey lyrics are about (-anymore..., they probably made sense when they where on acid). I never got around working more on them or putting it into a song, i think i might soon, so don't steal them

[blue2blue]

 

Go to your local library and find the "fantasy" fiction section. There are a ton of authors that write fantasy or even sci-fi books that you might be able to draw inspiration from. Also watching movies can help too, I guess. The point is, don't just listen to other bands to get lyrical ideas. Because then you may just wind up writing lyrics that sound too much like those bands. It's important to find your own voice as a songwriter.

 

 

Good suggestion!

 

 

With regards to bluesfella's suggestion(s)... well, we all work differently.

 

Now, I'm no prude. But I would (now) be very wary of letting myself get into the "need" for alcohol or drugs in order to write. I know. I've been there.

 

Of course, there are drugs and then there are drugs... but even if you don't use any drugs that can kill you (like heroin or speed -- or alcohol -- among many others -- I know people who've died from all three, sadly, including close friends and a close family member) -- even if you're not risking your life or the lives of others (by driving, etc)... even then... isn't it kind of sad to think you might end up feeling like you have to get high in order to create?

[bluesfella]

Nah, not really. I'm not high or in any altered state much at all. I rarely smoke pot nowadays, i didn't touch it for the last 3 months, and the shroom thing i only did twice, and probably never again (a principles thing... they where both awesome experiences). I got a college to go trough, so i'm not some hippie type of dude that's on drugs all the time. It's more like the otehr way; when i'm high or drunk i start to feel like writing stuff. Somehow it removes some borders in my mind... in exactly the same way people start doing stupid and dumb {censored} when they are drunk, i start doing weird and new {censored} musically. And sometimes that's a good thing.

[blue2blue]

Oh, sure, I understand what you're saying. You're obviously leading a more constrained college life than I did (it was the 60s, dammit! Well, actually, I started right at the end of the 60s but that decade had a hell of a hangover).

 

I'm just responding to the notion of getting into the habit of turning to drugs or alcohol for inspiration...

 

That's a trap a lot of writers have found themselves in, including me. And there were times when I was worried I might not be able to write again... happily, like most aspects of getting past an addiction, that passed, too. But it had me more than a little scared.

[Fine_Young_Fool]

Whoa, this thread turned deep all of the sudden.

 

Anyway, I picked up some Ray Bradbury and Edgar Allan Poe books, so we will see how that works out.

 

What I was thinking of was like "All Along the Watchtower" by Bob Dylan. Not uber fantasy, but you know.

 

Also, I need to more about rhyme schemes, I find it difficult to pick the right one.

[blue2blue]

Whoa, this thread turned deep all of the sudden. Anyway, I picked up some Ray Bradbury and Edgar Allan Poe books, so we will see how that works out. What I was thinking of was like "All Along the Watchtower" by Bob Dylan. Not uber fantasy, but you know. Also, I need to more about rhyme schemes, I find it difficult to pick the right one.

Good choices -- of course you'll probably get in trouble fast if you mimic the surface style of Poe's poetry -- people approached language and poetry considerably differently back then.

 

But what Poe does (in his best work) -- that is really interesting. I read a fair amount of Poe when I was a kid (like a lot of kids, I guess) more for the horror/creepshow angle. But his poetry just seemed... mmm... morbid probably doesn't quite say it. Anyhow, it was beyond me.

 

But I recently really listened to the Poe chestnut of all time, The Raven, which I'd read and heard a lot of times. (The movie was nothing like... oh... never mind. )

 

But until this last time, I never really got it. But when I got it, it really moved me. (Unfortunatley, I've since forgotten what it was [all that 60s damage]... I guess I'll have to read it once again. But that's OK. Maybe I'll recapture that same joy of discovery. Heck... I'm almost looking forward to Alzheimers. Each day all new, all over again. Just kiddin', there.)

 

 

________

 

With regard to "All Along the Watchtower" -- I love that song. And I love a lot of 60s Dylan. But by and large I don't want to write in the mode he wrote "Watchtower" in. (There are other Dylan songs of the era I'd die to have written. Gonna die anyway.) While I'd love to write with the freedom of language, not to mention emotional depth of, say, "Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands" -- I don't want to come off sounding like I copped his signature tricks. I mean, if I want to see how a bad take on Dylan is, all I have to do is look at some of his self-parodic stuff. It may have been schtick in the 60s -- but in the 80s it looked like schtick.

 

I don't know if you've ever heard this story, but a while back I read or heard that "Desolation Row" was his response to a letter Jackie Kennedy had sent to a hundred or so influential artists and writers very soon after JFK's assasination asking them to create works in his honor. The song is, according to this story, his response to that letter. ("You asked how I was doing. Was that some kind of joke?") Seems to make some sense. Certainly, it's fun trying to match up characters in the song with people in the national scene at the time.

 

In the mid-70s I liked a couple of albums by Steely Dan very much. (Countdown to Ecstasy, Royal Scam, a couple others.) And while their more provocative/intersting lyrics didn't use fantastic or surreal elements, much, there was a real interesting form of storytelling going on. The events in the songs were cryptic and the emotions so thoroughly veiled that it was much like reading some of the fiction of the era... you knew something was going on but you weren't always quite sure you knew what it was. (Did you, Mr Jones? )

________________

 

Anyhow, I'm sorry I jumped to the conclusion that we were talking about neo-mythical dragon warrior type stuff -- I really sold the thread short. Just goes to show you what happens when you react to things instead of interacting with them.

[willie the wimp]

dude, desolation row kicks any other song's ass in the world. seroiusly if i had to go on an island and could only bring 5 song #1 and 2 would be desolation row and sad eyed lady of the low lands, #3 probably the river and #4 in the reflection (greg keelor) and #5 would be "The Suffering Of Pepe O'Malley (Pt. III)" by justin rutledge who i suggest you check out b2b if you haven't. very good singer songwriter out of toronto, he was voted best songwriter in toronto in 06

 

edit:

and to stay somewhat on topic, just look at stuff around you and people you see on the street and make up stories about them and thier lives and just basically make it a dream because dreams never make sense imo. but twist the details so they sound cool but confusing haha, and if you can't think of anything just look around you. for example

 

scribled lines

on the bed sheet scroll

empty ash tray

this ain't my home

[Fine_Young_Fool]

@ BtB. Its okay, maybe I should learn how to actually explain things. I kinda made the reference to Wolfmother hoping that people would know about them, or maybe listen to them, but, twas too much to hope for.

 

@Will, thanks for the advice. That actually makes sense to me.

[blue2blue]

@ BtB. Its okay, maybe I should learn how to actually explain things. I kinda made the reference to Wolfmother hoping that people would know about them, or maybe listen to them, but, twas too much to hope for. @Will, thanks for the advice. That actually makes sense to me.

 

Well... you can't count on me to know about anything in the last couple decades of pop music unless I came across them on college radio or the 'net. Pretty much. I might be somewhat familiar with some obscure artists and not know WTF someone like Matchbox 20 is. (OK. I know who Matchbox 20 is. They're the old Nickelback. As in, the band everyone who thinks he's halfway cool hates. That said, from what little I've heard, I can understand that sentiment. )

 

Anyhow, I could have looked up Wolfmother but, as you saw, I only slipped in here to make a crack and then stuck around 'cause it turned out to be an interesting thread, after all.

 

 

And, Willie, "Desolation Row" is, indeed, one of my favorite songs. But if I find myself starting to write about public figures and giving them sarcastic but cute nicknames (as I think I did once or twice in the 70s), then I know I'm walkin' on Bob's grave. Only he's not even in it yet, happily. Anyhow, you know what I mean.

[Fine_Young_Fool]

http://www.lyricsmania.com/lyrics/wolfmother_lyrics_7236/

 

There, I made it easy for you guys. They aren't entirely right, but they are close enough.

[willie the wimp]

Well... you can't count on me to know about anything in the last couple decades of pop music unless I came across them on college radio or the 'net. Pretty much. I might be somewhat familiar with some obscure artists and not know WTF someone like Matchbox 20 is. (OK. I know who Matchbox 20 is. They're the old Nickelback. As in, the band everyone who thinks he's halfway cool hates. That said, from what little I've heard, I can understand that sentiment. ) Anyhow, I could have looked up Wolfmother but, as you saw, I only slipped in here to make a crack and then stuck around 'cause it turned out to be an interesting thread, after all. And, Willie, "Desolation Row" is, indeed, one of my favorite songs. But if I find myself starting to write about public figures and giving them sarcastic but cute nicknames (as I think I did once or twice in the 70s), then I know I'm walkin' on Bob's grave. Only he's not even in it yet, happily. Anyhow, you know what I mean.

 

totaly man, i'm not saying to write exactly like him. (although sometimes it turns out there's a dylaneswue comment in a set of lyrics, but when you listen to him as much as i do you don't even realize it).

and also as for this rutledge kid, i've never heard a tune of his on the radio but then again i don't listne to radio much. i just saw him playing one of the side stages of the local folk fest and thought it was really great.