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Lookin' for con-crit: "Saw My Baby and the Devil"


blue2blue

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EDIT / UPDATE: Latest mix below (Now with cowbell!)

 

 

Haven't exactly been burning up the foolscap, but I have a new one I need some lyrical and/or other feedback on. Despite the overblown production, it's very much a work-in-progress.

 

The lyrics are probably most in play. I think I need to rewrite one of the choruses to clear up some potential pronoun confusion. (It's the devil's plan and the 'Baby' in question is female, thank you very much. ;) ) And, frankly, it's a little thin on plot.

(

- you can watch it full screen there and actually have a chance of making out the lyrics)

xnWTHNNluVg

 

 

Saw My Baby and the Devil

 

saw my baby with the devil

walkin' side by side

they looked so good together

couldn't help but feel a twinge of foolish pride

 

the devil had his hand in her hip pocket

she had a pretty smile on her face

he grinned as he saw me watching

but my baby looked away

 

have a drink on the devil

step right up and shake his hand

and raise a glass to my baby while your at it

cause it's all a part of his plan

 

 

the devil caught me at a party

cornered me by the bar

he wore Armani and Versace

he looked just like a rising Nashville star

 

"so have a drink, on the devil"

he smiled as he said to me:

"your heart may belong to your baby

but your baby belongs to me"

 

have a drink on the devil

step right up and shake his hand

and raise a glass to my baby while your at it

cause it's all a part of his plan

 

©2010, TK Major

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Thanks, qutoxic!

 

So... are you saying drop both foolish and pride and chop the line off at twinge?

 

(My mind races looking for rhymes... it cringes, becomes unhinged, the flames of doubt singe it... I search the fringe of my consciousness looking for a rhyme... but my idea center seems stingey... if I was still a drinkin' man, the frustration might send me out on a binge, without a tinge of regret. Er... not that I'd force a rhyme or anything. :D )

 

Seriously, I'll roll that around. (Although I have to admit, I sort of like him having a twinge of foolish pride. You know, that whole she used to be mine thing. But maybe I can come up with something better.)

 

Thanks!

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Heavy early Stones vibe. I think it's pretty cool :-) What are you using for your horn sexetion? Sounds really good to me.

Yeah. I got done with the vocal take and started listening back and I thought... Oh, geez, now I'm doing Jagger. So to speak. I guess I just picked up the vibe from the arrangement as it developed... I certainly wasn't out to do a Stones thing. But I had just been listening to some recent Stones (not the usual Stones fare around Chez blue2blue). Although, to me, this sounds a little more like 70s Stones. But then, so did some of the recent Stones stuff. ;)

 

I was hoping the horns worked for others. I really liked them, myself, when I was patch shopping through my various wavetable synths and sound collections. But you know, you can kind of delude yourself on this stuff. These horns are from Roland/Sonar's TTS wavetable synth. Not bad for thrown in with the DAW for 'free.'

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The vocals have a bit too much of a PRS-toting blooze singer feel for me. I fully agree that you have a pronoun problem, but it's only a problem if you're listening to the lyrics, and this one is fun enough that you don't have to think too hard about it. If you need something to worry about, I'd think about getting more difference between your verse and chorus melody.

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Paul Reed Smith?!? :eek: Performing Rights Society?!? :eek: :eek: Poverty Reduction Strategy?!? :eek: :eek: :eek:

 

As I told Robby, above, I got done with the vocal, listened back, and realized that I was 'doing Jagger' -- which actually gave me a chuckle. But including jokes at your own expense is tricky stuff. Also, I'm feeling a bit pitch-conscious today and I have to admit there are more than a few spots in that vocal where what pitch that can be perceived is feeling a bit off. Too off. Off the wrong direction. Anyhow, it's gotta be redone. :D

 

Which is why I'm also eager to straighten out the pronoun issue... although, I have to say that there's a certain baiting quality I sort of appreciate there, you know, where you trick people into paying special attenion: What did he just say? But still safe, in that, heh, not that there's anything wrong with that kind of way, since it's already explained in the second verse that baby is a she.

 

I've got a few changes aggendized. One of my FB pals (who I used to jam with in the 3DW) was generally complimenting the song but got in the of course, I prefer real drums thing, so I'm thinkin' I'm going to go in and swap out the brushes kit for a conventional rock kit, which I think will probably draw less attention to itself. (Er... not that this is the secret MIDI shame production forum. :D )

 

 

[...] I fully agree that you have a pronoun problem, but it's only a problem if you're
listening
to the lyrics, and this one is fun enough that you don't have to think too hard about it. If you need something to worry about, I'd think about getting more difference between your verse and chorus melody.

Isn't it enough that I came up with a different chord cadence? Do I have to come up with a new melody?

 

Ah geez... the guys at the union hall never said it was gonna be this hard...

 

 

:D

 

Thanks, CM! I always pay special attention to your critiques.

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I like it. Yes, it definitely sounds like you are funneling the spirit of o' Mick there a bit too much.

 

Have to give it a second pass, but initial thoughts is that in 2 places you seem to be forcing too many syllables.. "foolish pride" may roll better as "fools pride" and "rising Nashville star", may run better off the tongue by dropping either "rising" or "Nashville".

 

Now, the lyrics are in progress, and I like the idea behind it, but needs some progression. I was playing "The Weight" with some buddies last weekend, and your story needs some such progression. Some kind of arc, I get where you are coming from, but the devil needs some more pressence, or the story needs to progress. Don't loose your concept though, it's strong and I like it.

 

 

 

On a side note and similar note, I've been trying to realize a song idea I had last week entitled "The Devil has been Drinking"... haven't gotten very far with it yet :) but it's another one of those ideas that keeps rattling about the brain.

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And I like the lyrics as is. But if you're going to rework on the lyric, narrative wise, like he suggested: My approach would be to steer clear of the story angle. And just go to town on the simple angle of seeing your woman with the Devil. God damn that stings. Don't need to say anything more than that. Color that imagine in - what more needs to be said? Christ.

 

And in my experience, anytime you lose a woman, the dude she starts banging never gives you a freaking second thought. Why would he? That's what's so infuriating about the whole situation.

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Very cool. Great production. Liked most everything, production-wise. Melodically great. Vocally quite good. (Couple notes here and there. But quite enjoyable).

 

Lyrically it's leaving me a little flat in some places:

1. I'm not understanding the protagonist's feeling. He sees his girl with the Devil and feels proud ? ? ? ?

 

2. I don't think of Armani and Versace as "Nashville" in style; more like Manhattan.

 

3. And why would I want to have a drink with the Devil? Why wouldn't I run in fear from him?

 

4. And just what IS his plan ?

 

(I know I'm a picky lyrics guy. I come from more of a folkie/singer-songwriter sensitivity where a song has a purpose to communicate a story/idea/something; not just to create a mood.)

 

 

((. . . , and my songs don't often meet up to my own standards. But we keep trying, don't we.))

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Yeah. I got done with the vocal take and started listening back and I thought... Oh, geez, now I'm doing Jagger. So to speak. I guess I just picked up the vibe from the arrangement as it developed... I certainly wasn't out to do a Stones thing. But I had just been listening to some
recent
Stones (not the usual Stones fare around Chez blue2blue). Although, to me, this sounds a little more like 70s Stones. But then, so did some of the recent Stones stuff.
;)

I was hoping the horns worked for others. I really liked them, myself, when I was patch shopping through my various wavetable synths and sound collections. But you know, you can kind of delude yourself on this stuff. These horns are from Roland/Sonar's TTS wavetable synth. Not bad for thrown in with the DAW for 'free.'

 

Hey it's not a bad thing dude? The stones are a classic Rock band! I should have just said it gave me a stones vibe? But it's not just the vox? It's the whole vibe? But again, I think that's cool... I sound like Don Henley, Jackson Browne, and Bryan Adams? And whenever anyone points that out? I smile BIG! :-) Roland did OK there with their horns? I use Mojo Horns, and I "really" like them. (soon to be heard on the Christmas release which will not be redacted?)

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Hey it's not a bad thing dude? The stones are a classic Rock band! I should have just said it gave me a stones vibe? But it's not just the vox? It's the whole vibe? But again, I think that's cool... I sound like Don Henley, Jackson Browne, and Bryan Adams? And whenever anyone points that out? I smile BIG! :-) Roland did OK there with their horns? I use Mojo Horns, and I "really" like them. (soon to be heard on the Christmas release which will not be redacted?)

It just happened. I used to sound more like Jagger and also Bowie in his Dylan-cum-Iggy stage and I drove it out of myself with a mental flail. I still have the scars. Mental, of course. As I explained, the secret of the horns in this case ('cause they're not the greatest horn samples I've heard or even have, they were from the synth I already had up because that's where the bass instrument was from. Still, I was digging them and then I thought, I need someting in the middle and I remembered someone, somewhere suggesting that fuzz is a natural with horn sections -- and I've noticed that many times in mixes I liked. They're very complementary sounds, oddly enough. The first couple times I saw Chicago, the were in there jazz rock band phase and Katz's driving, usually fuzzed out guitar was prominent. In fact, that might have been one of the things that put it in my head. I remember when I went to see them, I was a little dubious. But they were really great. It was nothing like the 70s band, although you sort of capture some of it in the first couple albums, if I recall correctly. Anyhow, a long way between these honkers on my track and a real section. But, you know, think of all the badly recorded real horns you ever heard... and how they could still sound cool, anyway, if they were playing the right thing. The music is often more important than any one, particular instrument.

 

 

I did spend a little time tinkering the mix this evening (a lot easier than rewriting or resinging -- but I know I've gotta), and replaced the brushes kit I'd been using with a Frankenstein custom kit of my own whimsical concoction. I like the thrift store drum kit mentality. I'll see if I can justify putting any more time in it right now. I may leave it more or less as it is through the weekend.

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Saw my Baby walking with the Devil

Hurt me down deep in side

But they looked so good together

Couldn't help but feel a twinge of foolish pride

 

I know the syllables don't work out. But it puts the situation in clearer focus. The conflict is out in the open, not missed.

 

have a drink on the devil

don't be afraid just shake his hand

and raise a glass to my baby while your at it

cause it's all a part of his plan

 

That heightens the ambiguity of the situation. (You have to fear the Devil. It's part of his plan, isn't it?; to lure us in and chop our heads off figuratively. . . . , at least every time I've danced with him.)

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I love the angle of feeling pride over the situation. It's a bit like the dude who brags his wife blew David Lee Roth or Sebastian Bach. It's funny, it's sad, a little pathetic, but you get it. And the devil holds a bit more clout. :)

 

The only issue for me is driving home that misguided pride a bit more. I say, once you've stuck it in, you may as well twist it too.

 

And the Versace / Nashville thing isn't your best stuff. I'd step that up a bit. Other than that, it's very cool. You're very cool. Nice singing, nice horns. Nice feel.

 

:thu:

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I love the angle of feeling pride over the situation. It's a bit like the dude who brags his wife blew David Lee Roth or Sebastian Bach. It's funny, it's sad, a little pathetic, but you get it. And the devil holds a bit more clout.
:)

The only issue for me is driving home that misguided pride a bit
more.
I say, once you've stuck it in, you may as well twist it too.


And the Versace / Nashville thing isn't your best stuff. I'd step that up a bit. Other than that, it's very cool.
You're
very cool. Nice singing, nice horns. Nice feel.


:thu:

You've nailed what I was trying for completely with the pride thing. I'll just need you to go around and explain that to audiences for me... ;)

 

You (and others) are probably right about the Armani/Versace/Nashville thing/bar thing. I think I'm still gonna have the devil button hole him somewhere and gloat or something, but maybe I can suggest his slick, urban look and still get in some more explicit gloating -- even while I'm cleaning up the chorus(es). I may be nostalgic leaving the hints of gender confusion behind (just as Jagger did in the 80s, eh? :D ) but it's for the best.

 

Besides, the devil wearing Armani and Versace somehow reminded me (not necessarily too much, but still) of "Werewolves of London" (although I reviewed the lyrics and it didn't directly parallel anything).

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You (and others) are probably right about the Armani/Versace/Nashville thing/bar thing.

 

 

I think you've set up a great spot for some clever visualization. Don't waste the opportunity on Versace, etc. Nice set up, now go for something fresh. Something off E! News but classic at the same time. Some thing this week that'll have legs.

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Something off E! -? Is that like, what did y'all call it? Television? That seems so... 20th century. (Unlike, say, doing a song with a strong 70s Stones feel. :D )

 

Yeah... I get it. No one likes my apparently oblique dig at Nashville. I know when to move on. (Well, actually, not usually on the last, but I get the point, this time. :D )

 

I'll put the big red X through Versace through Nashville. (Although I did sort of like the potential indirect references to Crowley's "Every man and every woman is a star," as well as the whole fallen angel angle.)

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:love:

 

I felt more Van Morrison than Mick Jagger in the vocals, and a little bit of Werewolves era Warren Zevon ("I saw a werewolf drinking a Pina Colada in Trader Vic's/His hair was perfect") in the lyrics. I also didn't get the musical difference between the verse, chorus and bridge, but the groove is so much fun that I didn't mind too much.

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Something off E! -? Is that like, what did y'all call it?
Television?
That seems so... 20th century. (Unlike, say, doing a song with a strong 70s Stones feel.
:D
)


Yeah... I get it. No one likes my apparently oblique dig at Nashville. I know when to move on. (Well, actually, not
usually
on the last, but I get the point,
this
time.
:D
)


I'll put the big red X through Versace through Nashville. (Although I
did
sort of like the potential indirect references to Crowley's "Every man and every woman is a star," as well as the whole fallen angel angle.)

 

Not TV necessarily, but something a little more from your actual experience, not another song's, and still speaking to the masses. That's us.

 

Regarding the chorus vs. the verse. I think it's a contrast of lead vocal rhythm. You need to break up cadence from the verse. The thing that comes to mind is...

 

 

Have a drink

 

A 1/4 note rest on the 1 then "have a" being 1/16s on the 2 and "drink" landing heavy on the 3. That way you introduce a new note value and bring immediate contrast to your chorus.

 

 

1 rest

 

2 hava.....

 

3 drink

 

4 rest

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:love:
I felt more Van Morrison than Mick Jagger in the vocals, and a little bit of Werewolves era Warren Zevon ("I saw a werewolf drinking a Pina Colada in Trader Vic's/His hair was perfect") in the lyrics. I also didn't get the musical difference between the verse, chorus and bridge, but the groove is so much fun that I didn't mind too much.

 

Yeah, or maybe that other guy, Joe somebody? Sang at Woodstock? And does a cover of the Beatles, by with a little help from my friends? I can never remember his last name?

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Yeah, or maybe that other guy, Joe somebody? Sang at Woodstock? And does a cover of the Beatles, by with a little help from my friends? I can never remember his last name?

The one who came in through the bathroom window, eh?

 

I'm not sure where you're going with that but I think Cocker was one of the great stand up singers at one point. I saw him in '69 not long after Woodstock (at the Newport '69 festival that was basically our considerably less pastoral/bucolic/muddy version of that east coast, upstate NY, hippie extravaganza -- Newport '69 was on some kind of commercial facility or field, baking in the San Fernando Valley sun -- and smog -- just check out one of those Dragnet '69 this is the city intros to see what I'm talking about -- the environmental movement really saved So Cal -- the difference is stunning -- and we still supposedly have some of the less groovy air among US metro areas, but if it's bad now it was pretty well insane then).

 

I really liked Cocker -- although I never bought an album or went specifically to see him anywhere -- because he mostly had great taste in songs (except for "Bathroom Window" which is simply an insultingly insipid song, as are so many from the end of the Beatles once sublime career, but, hey, good with the bad and all), and he gave his performances everything he had. A heck of a performer. He could never make it on the mainstream pop scene today, of course. Now you just get supposedly pretty people (am I the only one who thinks Taylor Swift is creepy and weird looking?) who can't sing a lick without buckets of poorly concealed help.

 

Anyhow, much as I admire Cocker, I'm not sure what the parallels would be other than I have some rasp in my voice on this (but, while I just take the Dylan/Jagger approach, Cocker would actually shape his vocal apparatus to support and resonate the tones of what he was singing, which why, I suspect, he moved well past the small audience for guys like Tom Waits and other fuzz-vox vocalists) and also that I've definitely got some ironic distance from my vocals here -- I think I was subconsciously operating more in mimic mode, that thing that comedians do where even the non-singers among them can drop into an imitation of a singer that actually makes them sound like they can sing -- I think that stuff is fascinating. You should see me do Paul Robison doing "Ol' Man River." It's pretty frightening. From more than a few angles.

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