Members Tat2bluez Posted March 5, 2012 Members Share Posted March 5, 2012 This started writing itself this morning when I was messing around with DADGAD tuning for the first time. 6 hours later - my butt fully kicked, this is what I have so far: http://soundcloud.com/lauracollins/the-flood-1 The Flood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted March 5, 2012 Members Share Posted March 5, 2012 An excellent song. I've listened through twice and have a couple of suggestions. Firstly - the verses are wall to wall metaphor - which works and I like.But I think that the chorus needs to be lyrically tighter.The song title is 'The Flood', and the 1st half of the chorus stays with the title, but the 'circle the wagons' seems unrelated.It's a metaphor that is in context with the overall song, but I'd like to hear the chorus stay within the images of what wild water might do. Secondly (and it also concerns the chorus), the first half of the verse repeats itself melodically in the 2nd half of the same verse. This is fine, but the chorus follows a similar structure.I think the chorus would benefit from greater melodic movement in lines 4, 5, and 6. See what you think. A great song, but could be tweaked that extra 10% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tat2bluez Posted March 5, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 5, 2012 Thanks so much for taking the time to write such a constructive, thoughtful reply. All your comments are on point. I'm going to put this to bed for a day because I can't look at it anymore and come back to it with your suggestions in mind. Right now I'm emotionally attached to the 'circle the wagons' line (a call for help and protection), so I need to get some distance. I normally never write metaphorically; I am a straight on storyteller, for better or worse. However, I was really inspired to move out of my comfort zone for this one and I'm glad you noticed! Yes, I do tend to do a 'kirtan'/chant music style at times, so I will have to look at the musical structure of the second half of the chorus and see what happens when I change it up. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhino55 Posted March 5, 2012 Members Share Posted March 5, 2012 An excellent song. I've listened through twice and have a couple of suggestions.Firstly - the verses are wall to wall metaphor - which works and I like.But I think that the chorus needs to be lyrically tighter.The song title is 'The Flood', and the 1st half of the chorus stays with the title, but the 'circle the wagons' seems unrelated.It's a metaphor that is in context with the overall song, but I'd like to hear the chorus stay within the images of what wild water might do.Secondly (and it also concerns the chorus), the first half of the verse repeats itself melodically in the 2nd half of the same verse. This is fine, but the chorus follows a similar structure.I think the chorus would benefit from greater melodic movement in lines 4, 5, and 6.See what you think.A great song, but could be tweaked that extra 10% Exactly my thoughts as well. You could even repeat line 1 of the chorus in place of the circle the wagons. That would make the melodic shift in line 4 that much more important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted March 5, 2012 Members Share Posted March 5, 2012 I don't mind "circle the wagons". Sure, it literally doesn't have much to do with the subject matter, but it does fit the theme. Look for protection, get defensive, get ready for an attack That sounds exactly like what she is trying to say there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LCK Posted March 5, 2012 Members Share Posted March 5, 2012 I don't mind "circle the wagons". Sure, it literally doesn't have much to do with the subject matter, but it does fit the theme. I agree. Yes, it's a bit of a mixed metaphor, especially when you're reading the lyric. But as sung, I think "ragin', ragin', circle the wagons" is the strongest line in the whole damn song! That's a perfect hootenanny, singalong line, if you ask me. LCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tat2bluez Posted March 5, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 5, 2012 Such great feedback - thank you all. Well, as I mentioned, I *am* attached to circle the wagons, and yes, it is used figuratively. (And I love the fact that LCK hears a hootenanny goin' on)... So, the closest thing I've come to a replacement line would be: Ragin' ragin' the levee's caved in (which by the way, would be a very obscure homage to Jimmy Page, as he used dadgad so often, as well as a nod to "When the Levee Breaks" - but I digress....) Which works illustratively and as story line, although I think it might be a tad predictable/expected. What d'y'all think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted March 6, 2012 Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 'Circle the wagons' may be a great line, and it would sit happily in a verse, but it weakens the chorus.'The levee's caved in' works in a watery sense, but doesn't say much more than what's already been said in the 1st part of the chorus. Maybe a line that sets up the coming line of retribution: Ragin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LCK Posted March 6, 2012 Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 'Circle the wagons' may be a great line, and it would sit happily in a verse, but it weakens the chorus.'The levee's caved in' works in a watery sense, but doesn't say much more than what's already been said in the 1st part of the chorus. Maybe a line that sets up the coming line of retribution: Ragin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted March 6, 2012 Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 Thanks LCK - what you have written is useful to me, as it adds an additional aspect to think about when songwriting.As you know from the few works that I have posted, I am fond of the metaphor and fond of abstraction, and provide just enough of the concrete, to communicate the overall idea.I hint more than I state. So your discussion on the concrete trumping the abstract idea is of interest to me, and I will look at my WsIP to see how the premise might be applied, where it might be appropriate, or if indeed it should be applied in every case.I can't argue with the need for grabbing the listener's ear or creating an image in the mind's eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tat2bluez Posted March 6, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 Circle the wagons is a call to action. I used to do talent for PBS in Denver, and the producer would always remind us to not forget our call to action when we were doing a fundraiser ("Get off you couches now and dial this number now!....") I don't think I understood why it was such an important line for me until I read these comments. I truly do love the "It's all past saving, and if you don't mind, oldgitplayer, I would like to use that at the end, as the chorus is repeated twice consecutively and it would be a great change up: Ragin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted March 6, 2012 Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 Circle the wagons is a call to action. I used to do talent for PBS in Denver, and the producer would always remind us to not forget our call to action when we were doing a fundraiser ("Get off you couches now and dial this number now!....") I don't think I understood why it was such an important line for me until I read these comments. I truly do love the "It's all past saving, and if you don't mind, oldgitplayer, I would like to use that at the end, as the chorus is repeated twice consecutively and it would be a great change up: Ragin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted March 6, 2012 Moderators Share Posted March 6, 2012 I listened yesterday and couldn't figure out how to articulate my input. OK, so here we go... The lyric works for me fine. The groove is happening and the chords have a nice contrast section to section. Nice. The melody... Almost prefect to me. But... and I couldn't put my finger on it yesterday. The vereses are great melodicaly. And that first burst into the chorus is great. But... What is it? It's the repetitrion of that melodic figure. I really think you'd get a lot more impact by varying it. It works. Too well. One possible alternative. Are you in D? Right now you have: Ragin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted March 7, 2012 Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 It looks like Lee and I are both advocating some melodic shift in the chorus. And he knows what he's talking about.Scat a few alternatives and something good will come out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tat2bluez Posted March 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 I have another 11 hour shift to work tomorrow then I'm going to take some time and work on this. I'm interested to see where it leads...I'll report back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tat2bluez Posted March 8, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 8, 2012 The new version is here Anyway - I made some small changes to keep with that theme, namely: Decaying ropes of gravityhas now becomefraying ropes of liberty (Still abstract, but makes better sense) and, A cellar coughs up secrets is nowA graveyard coughs up secrets Cellar was not clear enough when sung. So - the solution for the chorus was actually subtle but effective. Original, the second half (same as first) was G --> DNow, there's a little walk up: G - A - Bb - C, then back to D I think it works nicely. Let me know. (Note: some harmonies have to be reworked due to change...) [quote=LCK;45286688 So it might be politically incorrect to organize the song around that image. (I'm assuming --perhaps incorrectly -- that the song is either about the power-hungry bloodsuckers currently running Syria or the money-grubbing bloodsuckers currently running Wall Street and Washington D.C., so the marauding outlaws theme would still apply.) Anyway, those are my thoughts. If anyone disagrees, feel free to circle the wagons... LCK So - This song didn't start out as a protest song, but evolved into a sorty of "occupy" anthem. I did a little slide video with such a theme before I changed the chorus. It's up on . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LCK Posted March 8, 2012 Members Share Posted March 8, 2012 I like your lyrical changes. Whatever musical changes you made seem to work. Unfortunately I thought of another possible addition to the lyric: Ragin', ragin' ... a wild contagion ... Substitute your word of choice for "wild." Good work! It's very catchy. They'll be singing along for sure! LCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tat2bluez Posted March 8, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 8, 2012 I like your lyrical changes. Whatever musical changes you made seem to work.Unfortunately I thought of another possible addition to the lyric:Ragin', ragin' ... a wild contagion ...Substitute your word of choice for "wild."Good work! It's very catchy. They'll be singing along for sure!LCK Ya, know - it's endless permutations like that, that can keep me up all night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LCK Posted March 8, 2012 Members Share Posted March 8, 2012 Ya, know - it's endless permutations like that, that can keep me up all night! Ya gotta go with the flow. Or catch the wave again tomorrow morning... LCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted March 8, 2012 Members Share Posted March 8, 2012 Nice - your lyrical revisions are far more contextual. The chorus melodic changes sound good as well - just slightly incomplete - probably the harmonic revisions should pull it all together. What instrument will you use in the break? I'm hearing a bluesy fiddle. Sort of 'Blues Project' style of playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tat2bluez Posted March 8, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 8, 2012 Nice - your lyrical revisions are far more contextual.The chorus melodic changes sound good as well - just slightly incomplete - probably the harmonic revisions should pull it all together.What instrument will you use in the break? I'm hearing a bluesy fiddle. Sort of 'Blues Project' style of playing. Yep, you're feelin' me brother~ Almost like a "Devil Went Down to Georgia" frenzied kinda feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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