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Suzanne


Marshal

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Working on a new tune. Musically it's pretty well worked out. (That's the way I do it). But I don't have a sonic version of anything recorded. But It's going well (for me) and I'm sure I'll finish it. It's inspired by a female friend. She is just a friend. But a nice one. Some couples have spent some time together this year on vacation. And I got to observe this woman in a closer-than-normal way. She struck me as a gracefully aging hippy type. Quite lovely woman in every meaning of the term. A little mannic and controlling. But endearing just the same.

Anyrate I found a nice little musical pattern not too long ago and started messing with some ideas. I came up with an opening stanza and decided to go with the modern day Suzanne approach. Here's the opening verse:

Rolls out her mat and the sun comes up
And strikes a pose to greet the new day
There's purpose in her gaze
And peace on her face
I often think of her that way.


The song will be: Verse, verse, chorus, verse, chorus. (1st verse above)

The verses will progress timewise through a day. The 3rd verse will be something like (very rough):

Pours out some wine as the sun goes down
Raise a glass to another day
Satisfaction in her gaze
And mischief on her face
I often think of her that way


The chorus will likely be something like:

Take my hand Suzanne
Show me the way to your promised land
La, la
La, la
I'll often think of her that way


. . . , VERY rough. I'm not even sure where I want to go with this one. The idea is to have this aloof, untouchable, uncontrollable, figure that totally mystifies the protagonist. Much like Leonard Cohen's Suzanne. (That's not really the way I feel about this person. But for the purpose of a good song, I use the experiences around me as fodder for an imaginary journey. )

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Quote Originally Posted by rsadasiv View Post
I like what you've got so far, and I am getting a picture of this woman, but the shadow of Leonard Cohen hangs heavily over the song.
Yeah, + it seems like the song should be titled "I Often Think of Her" or "I Often Think of Her That Way."

What you've got so far is really nice. Well done.

LCK
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Very cool. I love the picture you've painted of her. I get her. When it comes to the chorus though, while I like how you're trying to bring it all to a head with the:

Take my hand Suzanne
Show me the way to your promised land


...and frankly, that probably works, the first thing that goes through my mind is asking her to take your hand? Your back story does not paint a picture of you being in a position of wanting to be led into the promised land by her. Instead, you've painted yourself as an admiring onlooker, who sees her as she is. So the idea of you floating into the promised land in an Exodus to the promised land feels a bit of a stretch from the truth you've created here.

But... note in each verse how there is a mention of her gaze.

There's purpose in her gaze

and

Satisfaction in her gaze

What is it she's gazing at. Her past? Her dreams? Her creator? Her soul? Is that outward gaze really a look inside? And you really do want to be led to her promised land. But maybe instead of calling it the "promised land" you want to be led to the place she's looking at in that gaze of hers.

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Musically it's very different than Leonard's tune. So there'll be no musical confusion. You can't copyright a title, so there's that. But still it would likely be considered a derivative work. Which is OK by me. I don't expect to ever get anywhere with these silly tunes I waste so much time on.

But I just HAVE to do this writing thing. If per chance if this gets some attention BECAUSE of it's similarity, then I'll be famous for something.

wink.gifwink.gifwink.gif

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It's very rough Lee. I already understand that. It could be "She takes my hand, Suzanne." There are multiple, multiple, multiple ways this could go. And that's the burning question for me. I can spin verses on this thing till the cows come home. But what is it I want to SAY about the relationship of these two people. Who's doing what to whom? And at this point I don't have a clue. But that will be something I have to solve (and it will be in the chorus) before I can get this baby up and running.

Part of why I love writing songs is it helps me work out feelings. Nothing is black and white. Nothing is exactly like it seems on the surface.

PS - The gaze and face lines in the verses are a device I use often where I try to take a common image and spin it differently with each passing trip. But I hadn't thought of a deeper meaning to that. But thanks for opening that door.

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And also, I'm not tied to any particular ending for this relationship. It doesn't have to mirror my reality or any specific reality. It just has to have an aura of it's own reality that the listener can believe.

That's why I say I don't have a clue where i want to go with this. I just want to do the characters justice.

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Quote Originally Posted by Marshal View Post
It's very rough Lee. I already understand that. It could be "She takes my hand, Suzanne." There are multiple, multiple, multiple ways this could go. And that's the burning question for me. I can spin verses on this thing till the cows come home. But what is it I want to SAY about the relationship of these two people. Who's doing what to whom? And at this point I don't have a clue. But that will be something I have to solve (and it will be in the chorus) before I can get this baby up and running.

Part of why I love writing songs is it helps me work out feelings. Nothing is black and white. Nothing is exactly like it seems on the surface.

PS - The gaze and face lines in the verses are a device I use often where I try to take a common image and spin it differently with each passing trip. But I hadn't thought of a deeper meaning to that. But thanks for opening that door.
Of course, my post was not a critique of what you've done. I realize where you're at with it. My comment about the example chorus idea was to point out how you might be taking a turn there that is not in your gut but rather your head. Look at your little synopsis here...

She struck me as a gracefully aging hippy type. Quite lovely woman in every meaning of the term. A little mannic and controlling. But endearing just the same.
I think you've captured the unbolded bits quite well. A little manic... yeah you got that to, you hit that with her "mischievous" side. But a little "controlling?" Now that's interesting. When I read that bit, I liked her. You'd completed the picture in a nice subtle way. She's not supergoddess. She a real woman. Nice.

"Endearing just the same".

^^^ Damn straight! I want some of her Lentil soup now. With bee pollen please. I've got a picture of a person and one that you like very much. Get that into your lyric.
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I saw that Rad. Though I didn't read the link. Yeah, I've been up and down on the whole Suzanne thing on this from the start. It could collapse under overexposure. But the thing is I really enjoy the musical pattern. and I love the Yoga image of the verse. I just don't know if i want to take it to the derivative level. It was a quite honest and original and special idea that kicked the tune off. And I don't want to cheapen it by the easy comparison.

I'm conflicted.

But it's just another silly worthless song.

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Quote Originally Posted by Marshal View Post
I saw that Rad. Though I didn't read the link. Yeah, I've been up and down on the whole Suzanne thing on this from the start. It could collapse under overexposure. But the thing is I really enjoy the musical pattern. and I love the Yoga image of the verse. I just don't know if i want to take it to the derivative level. It was a quite honest and original and special idea that kicked the tune off. And I don't want to cheapen it by the easy comparison.

I'm conflicted.

But it's just another silly worthless song.
I with you. Forget all that and write your song.
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Quote Originally Posted by Lee Knight View Post
. . . , But a little "controlling?" Now that's interesting. When I read that bit, I liked her. You'd completed the picture in a nice subtle way. She's not supergoddess. She a real woman. Nice.
Thanks

You see, I want the chorus to show that, though she's alluring and playful, she's always IN CHARGE of what's going on. The relationship is only going where she decides it will go. In a way, that remind's me of Leonard's Suzanne. He's infatuated, but she's ultimately out of reach.

It's a universal story that plays itself out every day of the week, and twice on Sunday.
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Nice try. Too direct for me. Explains too much. I want it to be more unresolved. Plus the cadence of the musical chorus is very different.

I suppose I'm going to have to come up with a quickie mp3 of this partial thing, if we're going to go anywhere. Not today. But maybe tomorrow. Friday for sure.

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Oh Gee. Stop apologizing. I'm a big boy. All comments welcome. If nothing else, that narrows down the things I don't want to do wink.gifwink.gifwink.gif

Sometimes it just helps to talk it out. Before this thread, I never realized I wanted the controlling thing to be important in the chorus. So, I learned something trying to explain myself.

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Oh Gee. Stop apologizing. I'm a big boy. All comments welcome. If nothing else, that narrows down the things I don't want to do wink.gifwink.gifwink.gif

Sometimes it just helps to talk it out. Before this thread, I never realized I wanted the controlling thing to be important in the chorus. So, I learned something trying to explain myself. You helped with that already.

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Quote Originally Posted by Marshal View Post
Musically it's very different than Leonard's tune. So there'll be no musical confusion. You can't copyright a title, so there's that.
You can't copyright a title but some titles are so recognizable that it's probably not a good idea to write a song and call it "Hey Jude" or "A Whiter Shade of Pale," particularly if there's another piece of the lyric that's repeated over and over, begging to be used as the title.

That said, Leonard Cohen's "Suzanne" isn't quite in the same category, title-wise, as the two I mentioned.

One of the things I do when I come up with a good title, is I'll go to iTunes and see if there are any other songs out there with the same name. I always get a frisson of pleasure when there aren't any.

LCK
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I take the opposite approach. If somebody googling Leonard Cohen accidentally pops up my tune, I'm the better off for it. I've named tunes to closely follow known tunes, for just that fact, even though my tune has nothing to do with the original.

That being said, this tune follows more closely than the others to the original idea. It truly could be derivative. Whereas the other tunes I've copied titles on are completely different from the original.

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Quote Originally Posted by Marshal View Post
I take the opposite approach. If somebody googling Leonard Cohen accidentally pops up my tune, I'm the better off for it. I've named tunes to closely follow known tunes, for just that fact, even though my tune has nothing to do with the original.

That being said, this tune follows more closely than the others to the original idea. It truly could be derivative. Whereas the other tunes I've copied titles on are completely different from the original.
And I agree. As a matter of fact, I think mildly referencing another iconic tune can be a writing device. This is your Suzanne. I say run with your initial instinct here. I like it.
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I think I know this woman.
Nice idea and going well. Here are a couple of things to consider :

And strikes a pose to greet the new day - 'Strikes a pose' can also imply affectation, so there might be a better word. My wife is a yoga teacher, and I know she wouldn't like this turn of phrase. It's the sun greeting posture, not a pose.

Take my hand Suzanne
Show me the way to your promised land


I wonder if this is not a bit well worn and pedestrian. I already feel the woman has a certain mystique, and 'taking hand' and 'promised land' could be improved upon to convey that she is beyond the everyman's reach.

Just something to chew over........

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Quote Originally Posted by oldgitplayer View Post
Take my hand Suzanne
Show me the way to your promised land


I wonder if this is not a bit well worn and pedestrian. I already feel the woman has a certain mystique, and 'taking hand' and 'promised land' could be improved upon to convey that she is beyond the everyman's reach.
Agreed. I was enjoying reading the lyric until I got to those lines. The 'woman leading me to the promised land' theme is way too overdone in popular song. And as Lee Knight pointed out, it doesn't really work with the verses you have so far.

But otherwise it is an interesting song concept. The platonic relationship is not a common subject matter, so I'm curious about how you will develop it.
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The relationship in the song will not be platonic. Reality is only a tangential element to songwriting, as I see it. I have no desire to capture this real situation; only to be inspired by it to create something else that can stand on its own. So, I expect the protagonist to be fully enraptured by this lovely unattainable woman. But, like so many guys in so many songs, he will be left holding onto only a ghost of what could have been.

I had some further thoughts on the chorus last night (at about 4:00 am). But they are causing more verbal conflicts than they are resolving, so I won't post anything additional at this time. But I'm working on it.

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PS - "take my hand" will no longer be in there. I don't know what will. But it won't be that, because the protagonist will not initiate anything. She will be in control. [which is very much like Leonard's story. "Suzanne takes you down"]. The second line of the chorus I dug up in a dream state last night was, "Controlling earth and sky with only a grin." of course "grin" doesn't rhyme with Suzanne. "Controlling everything as only she can" works. But i like the whole universe revolving around her smile.

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