Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 5, 2012 Moderators Share Posted October 5, 2012 *Updated here as I go. I'm going to start work on this one... V1 Little girl eyes, they seems to sympathize Or is it scrutinize, the things I do These tears of pride, you see the fear behind And though you're not unkind, sometimes you're cruel C You're not a little girl, I'm not your daddy There is no Superman, Lady Penelope It is a gift to love and live So we'll beg, borrow and give Our heroes are gone Long gone, Lady Penelope V2 There's a better place, a place for gentle hands A place with bigger plans, for me and you And when our world starts to crumble, logic turns to jumble "I love you's" turn to mumble, I still love you C You're not a little girl, I'm not your daddy There is no Superman, Lady Penelope It is a gift to love and live So we'll beg, borrow and give Our heroes are gone Long gone, Lady Penelope B Remember the time spent driving in your car? The desert was electric, the day to day, hectic But still so far away C You're not a little girl, I'm not your daddy There is no Superman, Lady Penelope It is a gift to love and live When we beg, borrow and give Our heroes are gone Long gone, Lady Penelope _________________ 1st draft. Ideas? V1 Little girl eyes, they seems to sympathize Or is it scrutinize, the things I do These tears of pride, you see the fear behind And though you're not unkind, sometimes you're cruel C You're not a little girl, I'm not your daddy There is no Superman, Lady Penelope The world's a better place to live When we beg, borrow and give Sad to say, our heroes are dead, Lady Penelope V2 There's a better place, a place for gentle hands A place with bigger plans, for me and you And when our world starts to crumble, logic turns to jumble "I love you's" turn to mumble, I still love you C You're not a little girl, I'm not your daddy There is no Superman, Lady Penelope The world's a better place to live When we beg, borrow and give Sad to say, our heroes are dead, Lady Penelope B Remember the time spent driving in your car? The desert was electric, the day to day hectic Was so far away C But you're not a little girl, I'm not your daddy There is no Superman, Lady Penelope The world's a better place to live When we beg, borrow and give Sad to say, our heroes are dead, Lady Penelope Our heroes are dead, Lady Penelope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 5, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 5, 2012 gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 The picture is freaking me out..... I'm kind of an Odyssey nut, so that's making it difficult to see past the name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 Not sure this is a great line coming out of the chorus, since you do the "better place" there: There's a better place, a place for gentle hands You'll have to forgive me, but I don't grasp the significance of "Lady Penelope". Must have missed that show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 Originally Posted by Lee Knight gone C'mon man, not cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LCK Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 I think it's a great first draft. Very strong rhythmically. And that second verse is killer stuff. I like the internal rhyme on "Lady Penelope." One minor hitch: I don't fully understand the relationship b/w the singer and Penelope. By starting with "little girl eyes" you give us the impression that she's his daughter. Then you scotch that idea, but who is he now? Her uncle? We have to go even further to find out that it's a romantic (semi-romantic?) pairing. Also, while I like the idea of using hectic as a noun, it's kind of a head-scratcher, esp, when sung. How about "the desert was electric, the daily dialectic was so far away?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 5, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 5, 2012 I don't know if it makes any sense at all but I'll share what it is. Lady Penelope is a character from the puppet kid's show Thunderbirds. She was the London spy with the Thunderbirds and the daughter of an aristocrat. She's high maintenance. It is my wife's nickname. We had a fight and I realize I seem to be her surrogate father. Her dad was a scoundrel so she was raised by her mom alone. Enter: Me. i.e. Superman. Daddy. It can suck. So this was writing without restriction. Total purge city without refinement. I should nix the "little girl eyes". I like calling her Lady Penelope in the song. It sounds good. Kind of like the way Lady Godiva sounded to me as a kid before I understood who that figure was... I hope, and I think it is clear that the narrator is under the strain of her expectations. These are shoes impossible to fit in. So, there's the back story. How can I make it clear I can't/won't/not interested in filling the shoes of Superman in my wife's eyes? But I love her and want her to see that working hard without a sense of entitlement is a gift, not a burden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 The problem I see is a mix of metaphoric fields... (although the reference to the puppet show sort of ties it together -- for people who get the reference)... We've got Lady Penelope (it sounds high maintenance, so it's kind of shorthand). But then we've got Superman... British aristocracy and Depression era comic book superhero... they don't seem to overlap. Without the foreknowledge that Lady Penelope was a character in the puppet show, I'm left with just the aristocracy and, being a flat-footed plodder, that would lead me to a tendency to keep the metaphoric field there, recasting Superman as, I dunno, some Prince Charming type. (Which might also give you as songwriter a chance to play some upstairs/downstairs with your metaphors.) Anyhow, I definitely got the missing-father-fixation thing from the lyrics as they are, despite early confusion as to roles. The roles ARE confused, after all, in the intended telling of the song, so it's natural, I think. Also, I don't think the little girl eyes part is necessarily a problem. It's actually fairly evocative -- and somewhat economical, as well, because, after all, one is not necessarily inclined to point out that a little girl has little girl eyes... so the implication, if one is willing to stretch just a bit, is that the object of attention is a grown woman who is indulging in 'little girl eyes.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 5, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 5, 2012 ^^^ that's a great point. I need a synonym for hero there. Although I like the way the line echoes, "there is no Santa Clause". Sort of the big wake up and see reality moment. Hmmm. I like "There is no... " and then at least alluding to some mythical icon. Hmmm.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 You get Santa Claus in there, mixed with the Electra Complex stuff, and you got a real tangled can-o-worms, seems to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted October 6, 2012 Members Share Posted October 6, 2012 I like this. I find it intriguing.I felt the romantic vibe from the beginning. Maybe my mind is just in the gutter all the time, who knows? This to me feels like a Fleetwood Mac - Beatles combination, which is interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Monkey Uncle Posted October 6, 2012 Members Share Posted October 6, 2012 Originally Posted by grace_slick I felt the romantic vibe from the beginning. +1. I think you're fine in that regard.I'm not crazy about using 'hectic' as a noun, but I realize your rhyme choices are pretty limited.This phrase confused me: These tears of prideI get the second part of that line about seeing the fear behind the pride, but I can't figure out why being proud would make you cry.The chorus seems a little complex just reading it, but I can't wait to hear how it sounds over a great Lee Knight melody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted October 6, 2012 Members Share Posted October 6, 2012 Hmm...why would being proud make someone cry... Often pride for a loved one can be so overwhelming, it can bring on tears. And in terms of self-pride, tears can come from a more complicated place. Guilt mixed with pride, regret mixed with pride, the pressure of expectation and the resulting relief from feeling pride...stuff like that maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted October 6, 2012 Members Share Posted October 6, 2012 Originally Posted by grace_slick Hmm...why would being proud make someone cry...Often pride for a loved one can be so overwhelming, it can bring on tears. And in terms of self-pride, tears can come from a more complicated place. Guilt mixed with pride, regret mixed with pride, the pressure of expectation and the resulting relief from feeling pride...stuff like that maybe. That is exactly what I was thinking. I actually thought it was a great line, full of complex emotion in few words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stickboymusic Posted October 6, 2012 Members Share Posted October 6, 2012 I think the "heroes are dead" line is a bit out of place How about You're not a little girl, I'm not your daddy There is no Superman, Lady Penelope The world's a better place to live When we beg, borrow and give Here's the deal, our heroes aren't real, Lady Penelope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 6, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 6, 2012 Originally Posted by Monkey Uncle I'm not crazy about using 'hectic' as a noun, but I realize your rhyme choices are pretty limited.This phrase confused me: These tears of prideI get the second part of that line about seeing the fear behind the pride, but I can't figure out why being proud would make you cry.The chorus seems a little complex just reading it, but I can't wait to hear how it sounds over a great Lee Knight melody. Originally Posted by grace_slick Hmm...why would being proud make someone cry...Often pride for a loved one can be so overwhelming, it can bring on tears. And in terms of self-pride, tears can come from a more complicated place. Guilt mixed with pride, regret mixed with pride, the pressure of expectation and the resulting relief from feeling pride...stuff like that maybe. Originally Posted by Oswlek That is exactly what I was thinking. I actually thought it was a great line, full of complex emotion in few words. Originally Posted by stickboymusic I think the "heroes are dead" line is a bit out of placeHow aboutYou're not a little girl, I'm not your daddyThere is no Superman, Lady PenelopeThe world's a better place to liveWhen we beg, borrow and giveHere's the deal, our heroes aren't real, Lady Penelope hectictears of prideour heroes are deadGreat stuff, guys. The use of hectic as a noun. I don't know, I sorta like it. A modern language trend is to verbafy nouns. Journaling. Google it. The horrible "I God you". "Guilt me into it." So adjective as noun... 'The intelligent are not arrogant' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marshal Posted October 6, 2012 Members Share Posted October 6, 2012 took me a couple times to climb that hill. Then I went "Aha." Truly love: And when our world starts to crumble, logic turns to jumble "I love you's" turn to mumble, I still love you There's your boat anchor. Doesn't need to be in the chorus. But it needs to be in there like you got it. Well done. I read your explanation. That's pretty much what I figured was going on, though I'm not familiar with the Thunderbirds and Lady Penelope. Don't need to be. the song speaks for itself. Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 6, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 6, 2012 You're not a little girl, I'm not your daddy There is no Superman, Lady Penelope The world's a better place to live When we beg, borrow and give Our heroes are long gone, wake up with the dawn, Lady Penelope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marshal Posted October 6, 2012 Members Share Posted October 6, 2012 Originally Posted by Lee Knight . . . , our heroes are deadIt is a bit "God is dead-ish". Nietzsche said that, and then, "Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?" The murdering of God. I take "Our heroes are dead", to mean, ain't nobody gonna do it for you now. I'm not your dad, I'm not superman, if if either ever existed, they're gone now, leaving only the fact that you... must do what you... want and need done. Lady Penelope was a game, fun. This is real and there is no aristocrat waiting to take you to the next fashion show in Milan. . . . , Got that too. Nice explanation, though. But I figured that's what was behind it. Dead nuts on ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marshal Posted October 6, 2012 Members Share Posted October 6, 2012 Originally Posted by Lee Knight You're not a little girl, I'm not your daddyThere is no Superman, Lady PenelopeThe world's a better place to liveWhen we beg, borrow and giveOur heroes are long gone, wake up with the dawn, Lady Penelope Hhhhmmmm. I'm not sue I would go with wake up with the dawn. Seems unecessary and degenerative. Our heroes are long gone already says that. Maybe I'm just familiar with the first read (and get it) and don't want to see stuff just stuck in there. I mean it works. Just seems redundant to a fault. (cliche like?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 6, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 6, 2012 yeah... ^^^ cliche for sure. I'm glad I have it in the back pocket though. I might need that come melody time. Some sort of hope in all the harsh reality. But yeah, I hear you and will be happy not to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted October 7, 2012 Members Share Posted October 7, 2012 Originally Posted by Lee Knight our heroes are deadStick says: Here's the deal, our heroes aren't real, Hmm...heroes are dead or heroes aren't real...?I like the flow of "aren't real", but...is it enough to have that specific meaning over the original meaning intended by "dead"? Cause dead, as has been said above, implies they were at some stage in existence and believed in and relied upon for whatever purpose. And so now they're dead, it's like a dream has been shattered, a comfort has been removed. The word "dead" is quite blunt. Like if someone's died and you're told about it, "(insert name)'s dead" is much harsher and more shocking than "(insert name) has died". So yeah, because of the bluntness of the word "dead", to me it's like ripping away the dreams of the person you're telling her heroes are not there. They're dead. Gone. You're on your own.Whereas heroes aren't real...it doesn't have the same impact, and it doesn't have the same meaning. Yeah, your heroes aren't real, they never were, they never existed except within your mind.I don't know what I'm blabbering about now. I shall go. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Monkey Uncle Posted October 7, 2012 Members Share Posted October 7, 2012 Originally Posted by grace_slick Hmm...heroes are dead or heroes aren't real...?I like the flow of "aren't real", but...is it enough to have that specific meaning over the original meaning intended by "dead"? Cause dead, as has been said above, implies they were at some stage in existence and believed in and relied upon for whatever purpose. And so now they're dead, it's like a dream has been shattered, a comfort has been removed. The word "dead" is quite blunt. Like if someone's died and you're told about it, "(insert name)'s dead" is much harsher and more shocking than "(insert name) has died". So yeah, because of the bluntness of the word "dead", to me it's like ripping away the dreams of the person you're telling her heroes are not there. They're dead. Gone. You're on your own.Whereas heroes aren't real...it doesn't have the same impact, and it doesn't have the same meaning. Yeah, your heroes aren't real, they never were, they never existed except within your mind.I don't know what I'm blabbering about now. I shall go. lol +1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted October 7, 2012 Members Share Posted October 7, 2012 Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 7, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 7, 2012 Originally Posted by grace_slick Hmm...heroes are dead or heroes aren't real...?I like the flow of "aren't real", but...is it enough to have that specific meaning over the original meaning intended by "dead"? Cause dead, as has been said above, implies they were at some stage in existence and believed in and relied upon for whatever purpose. And so now they're dead, it's like a dream has been shattered, a comfort has been removed. The word "dead" is quite blunt. Like if someone's died and you're told about it, "(insert name)'s dead" is much harsher and more shocking than "(insert name) has died". So yeah, because of the bluntness of the word "dead", to me it's like ripping away the dreams of the person you're telling her heroes are not there. They're dead. Gone. You're on your own.Whereas heroes aren't real...it doesn't have the same impact, and it doesn't have the same meaning. Yeah, your heroes aren't real, they never were, they never existed except within your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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