Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 7, 2012 Moderators Share Posted October 7, 2012 In a lot of ways... I want to start this one again. From the beginning, Ram made the point that it really wasn't the same song I first wrote and posted here in its infancy. But I forged on, cause I do like a lot about the form it's taken on in a more arranged and finessed state. But still... I think it may be missing the mark in the way that Ram was alluding to. Either way... and only time will tell, here it is in its final state for this rendition... although, if you feel it is worth it, please comment on how I can make it happen right for this version. Frankly, I'm a little more lost than usual. If this is not right, in this version, I'd love to hear why you feel so... no arguments from me. I just like to take an idea to where I think/thought it should go to see. I'm stubborn artistically sometimes but... I'm also open to revisiting it in a whole different manner if you feel it's worth it. I'm kinda feeling I missed the mark. All input from you has been evaluated and employed if I felt it was right for this. You know how that that goes. I really wanted to capture a guy that is frustrated with his life as is, but is still feeding off of a fading dream. He's knows it has passed and yet... he shoulda, and in someways feels he still might be able to... So finally, the idea of revisiting it more in its original form is OK with me. And though I've got stuff I want to work on other than this, I can stop that with the right input from you. Or not and move on and revisit later. Or again, not... you tell me. [video=youtube;R4T3oj2hBHA] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 7, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 7, 2012 Oh... and Stick! Should I redo that bass part? It was a total jam without really knowing it. Oh man, As I'm listening... that bridge rap... damn. That just sounds wrong. Ahgghgh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LCK Posted October 7, 2012 Members Share Posted October 7, 2012 In a lot of ways... I want to start this one again. From the beginning, Ram made the point that it really wasn't the same song I first wrote and posted here in its infancy. But I forged on, cause I do like a lot about the form it's taken on in a more arranged and finessed state. But still... I think it may be missing the mark in the way that Ram was alluding to. Either way... and only time will tell, here it is in its final state for this rendition... although, if you feel it is worth it, please comment on how I can make it happen right for this version. As far as I can tell this is the same basic version I heard before except for the "rap" stuff at the end. I don't know where you want to go, but I think this version is pretty damn good (except for the "Venus in profile" line, which not only has bad prosody you're also rhyming "file" with "file"). It's a rockin' track otherwise. Very catchy, very polished and well done. Since I don't know what Ram was alluding to specifically, that's the best feedback I can give you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 7, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 7, 2012 As far as I can tell this is the same basic version I heard before except for the "rap" stuff at the end. I don't know where you want to go, but I think this version is pretty damn good (except for the "Venus in profile" line, which not only has bad prosody you're also rhyming "file" with "file"). It's a rockin' track otherwise. Very catchy, very polished and well done. Since I don't know what Ram was alluding to specifically, that's the best feedback I can give you. And that is good feedback. There is no reason you should recognize all the changes. Even though they are there, they are more supportive. That is very helpful for me. So, no foul from you. The "Venus in profile" bit? I decided to stick with it because I do like the way the line sounds and translates. Though I realize I may find myself horribly wrong in a couple of week/months. We gotta go with what we like. No diss your way. You know how that goes as well, I'm sure. So it sounds the same? That is very helpful input believe it or not. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stickboymusic Posted October 7, 2012 Members Share Posted October 7, 2012 Oh... and Stick! Should I redo that bass part? It was a total jam without really knowing it. Oh man, As I'm listening... that bridge rap... damn. That just sounds wrong. Ahgghgh! Right now im listening on the laptop so cant comment on the bass.... will listen on the speakers later . You know after all the speak and wording talks of the rap section..... I have come away thinking only one thing I know this isnt going to be popular. BIN IT like straight into guitar solo off that chorus, no rap and you have created a perfect 3 minute pop song told you it wouldn't be a popular opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Monkey Uncle Posted October 7, 2012 Members Share Posted October 7, 2012 You know after all the speak and wording talks of the rap section..... I have come away thinking only one thingI know this isnt going to be popular.BIN ITlike straight into guitar solo off that chorus, no rap and you have created a perfect 3 minute pop songtold you it wouldn't be a popular opinion It's a shame, because there are some really clever lines in there. But unless you can find a way to slow it down so that the words are intelligible, I think Stickboy is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted October 7, 2012 Members Share Posted October 7, 2012 Ram is right that this isn't the same song.... But I think that is a good thing. However, if this is really the target: I really wanted to capture a guy that is frustrated with his life as is, but is still feeding off of a fading dream. He's knows it has passed and yet... he shoulda, and in someways feels he still might be able to... Then maybe you do want to being the original back because that one tapped this vein more than you do right now. I still think it was too wimpy, but I'm sure you'll make the right decision. FWIW, I'm also not feeling the rap section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 7, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 7, 2012 Right now im listening on the laptop so cant comment on the bass.... will listen on the speakers later . You know after all the speak and wording talks of the rap section..... I have come away thinking only one thing I know this isnt going to be popular. BIN IT like straight into guitar solo off that chorus, no rap and you have created a perfect 3 minute pop song told you it wouldn't be a popular opinion Now there's an idea! That would solve a lot of issues. I'll mess with that. Boy... that's like a weight off my shoulders... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marshal Posted October 7, 2012 Members Share Posted October 7, 2012 I love it as is. Funny thing is my favorite part is the melodic "Ooh-we-Oohs" in the background. Just absolutely charming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marshal Posted October 7, 2012 Members Share Posted October 7, 2012 Now there's an idea! That would solve a lot of issues. I'll mess with that. Boy... that's like a weight off my shoulders... You could come up with 2 versions. I like the lapse into the rap. That's a fun dimension. I would prefer that. But your target audience may or may not agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted October 8, 2012 Members Share Posted October 8, 2012 In a lot of ways... I want to start this one again. From the beginning, Ram made the point that it really wasn't the same song I first wrote and posted here in its infancy. But I forged on, cause I do like a lot about the form it's taken on in a more arranged and finessed state. But still... I think it may be missing the mark in the way that Ram was alluding to. Either way... and only time will tell, here it is in its final state for this rendition... although, if you feel it is worth it, please comment on how I can make it happen right for this version. *sigh* You're giving my comment a lot more weight than it probably deserves. So to quote the POTUS, "Let me be clear".... I think the song is great the way it is. It's a slightly different song, but I think this song has a wider appeal, and works better as a pop song. Now don't take this comparison the wrong way - I'm just trying to clarify how a song can morph from something that I, as a pointed headed songwriting geek might like, into something that a much wider audience will enjoy. [video=youtube;6bOhf2GBW94] Steve Poltz wrote a dynamite song - closely observed, character driven, touching, and ... a total bummer that doesn't reflect well on the performer. The protagonist is a delusional sad sack with relationship issues unsuccessfully trying to pick up the pieces of his shattered life. When he says "You were meant for me, and I was meant for you" that is a completely fabricated fantasy - she's never coming back and despite his lukewarm efforts to get up, get dressed, go to the movies, etc. he is unable to accept that fact. Jewel took that complicated, songwritery song and turned it into a straightforward statement of devotion in a slick pop wrapper that sold a billion copies worldwide. What I liked about your original song is that the protagonist is a pathetic, delusional loser. But that's not the kind of song that gets covered by hot chick singers and goes platinum - that's the kind of song you play for other pointy headed songwriter geeks at open mic night. You found the platinum version of the song - don't look back on the path to hot chick singers and a spot on Letterman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 8, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 8, 2012 Nice Ram ^. I know what you mean, Poltz's version is so good. A "cool story bro" - I used to hear him play his one offs, songs he'd just put together that day, and try them on the audience. Some were just freaking magic. I remember my sis and I walking up to him and requesting one. "Hey, do that song about you talking to the little girl and her saying "Can I have another piece of pie," As I recall, the song was just so touching. And we'd just heard him do it the previous week. And his response, "Hmmm... I'm sorry, I think that must've evaporated. I don't remember doing one like that. That happens some times." My sister and I were blown away. Such a great song and it's gone. Lost. He did like his beer and supplements at the time. Anyway, yes, I get your comparison and that's a pretty insightfully take on his and her different versions... and how a lot was lost in her one dimensional reading of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted October 8, 2012 Members Share Posted October 8, 2012 Nice Ram ^. I know what you mean, Poltz's version is so good. A "cool story bro" - I used to hear him play his one offs, songs he'd just put together that day, and try them on the audience. Some were just freaking magic. I remember my sis and I walking up to him and requesting one. "Hey, do that song about you talking to the little girl and her saying "Can I have another piece of pie," As I recall, the song was just so touching. And we'd just heard him do it the previous week. And his response, "Hmmm... I'm sorry, I think that must've evaporated. I don't remember doing one like that. That happens some times." My sister and I were blown away. Such a great song and it's gone. Lost. He did like his beer and supplements at the time. Anyway, yes, I get your comparison and that's a pretty insightfully take on his and her different versions... and how a lot was lost in her one dimensional reading of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stickboymusic Posted October 8, 2012 Members Share Posted October 8, 2012 Oh... and Stick! Should I redo that bass part? It was a total jam without really knowing it. Oh man, As I'm listening... that bridge rap... damn. That just sounds wrong. Ahgghgh! Forgot about this. The bass sounds cool as. Is it bothering you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stickboymusic Posted October 8, 2012 Members Share Posted October 8, 2012 After listening again (properly) I do think this it totally awesome. Im wondering (if it's worth trying) for the rap bit (which aside from the kinda rap itself is really great) could you kinda semi-sing those lines? Just give it a little more melody, slightly elongate bits so it isnt quite so spoken but still has a "similar" feel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhino55 Posted October 8, 2012 Members Share Posted October 8, 2012 I like it but am also not feeling the rap. I think semi-singing like stickboy said would probably be pretty cool. Maybe a bull horn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted October 8, 2012 Members Share Posted October 8, 2012 I like it but am also not feeling the rap. I think semi-singing like stickboy said would probably be pretty cool.Maybe a bull horn? That's an idea! Or simply compress the {censored} out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhino55 Posted October 8, 2012 Members Share Posted October 8, 2012 That's an idea! Or simply compress the {censored} out of it. Or a bunch of delay and reverb. I think it would be just as effective not understanding what he is saying. I think what is being said is cool, but I don't think it is imperative to the song. Which would be somewhat fitting if the listener is left thinking WTF is this guy saying here and it gets lost in the noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 9, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 9, 2012 Forgot about this.The bass sounds cool as.Is it bothering you? It's not really bothering me. It was. I was down the rabbit hole then though. I tend to jam out a part, then replay it using the best bits and trying to do some repeating of key bits and really making it a part. Replay it or cut it up. With development and all. I think you do this intuitively, it seems. This one I just jammed out once and forgot about it. Then as I listened closer there was some cool stuff but I never went back and sort of composed the part around those best ideas. It's alive sounding though, I think. So I guess I'm good with it. Thanks for looking into it though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 9, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 9, 2012 Or a bunch of delay and reverb. I think it would be just as effective not understanding what he is saying. I think what is being said is cool, but I don't think it is imperative to the song. Which would be somewhat fitting if the listener is left thinking WTF is this guy saying here and it gets lost in the noise. You guys are awesome for even caring at this point. I think I'm burnt out on this characters attitude. I wanna rufie his ass and tie him to a light post, midtown, naked. Then be there rush hour to enjoy. He's a prick. OK... that out. now... Wait a minute, sing it? That's not a bad idea. I really like the edit suggestion because of the mercy it provides for the writer but... that's not a bad idea. Maybe some sort of almost Bohemian Rhapsody, with out the intense camp (and awesome vocals), well, maybe more like a Barber Shop Quartet for rock band exercise. This might be cool, fun, a little camp. Hmmmm.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 9, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 9, 2012 Or a bunch of delay and reverb. I think it would be just as effective not understanding what he is saying. I think what is being said is cool, but I don't think it is imperative to the song. Which would be somewhat fitting if the listener is left thinking WTF is this guy saying here and it gets lost in the noise. You guys are awesome for even caring at this point. I think I'm burnt out on this characters attitude. I wanna rufie his ass and tie him to a light post, midtown, naked. Then be there rush hour to enjoy. He's a prick. OK... that out. now... Wait a minute, sing it? That's not a bad idea. I really liked the edit it out altogether suggestion because of the mercy it provides for the writer but... that's singing it's not a bad idea. Maybe some sort of almost Bohemian Rhapsody, with out the intense camp (and awesome vocals), well, maybe more like a Barber Shop Quartet for rock band exercise. This might be cool, fun, a little camp. Hmmmm.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 9, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 9, 2012 OK... OK... somebody said something almost inadvertently about "Unless you could slow it down...". I can't find your quote so whoever it was, hide now or come forward depending... but... Why not slow it down? Do a section that just grooves. I promise I won't try and cop Dre or whoever. But the original part was written much slower. That is why keen heads like yourselves are thinking, but wait, that should work... Because it sort of does. But not at this breakneck tempo. What Ram picked up on. I do like where the tune is at now but, maybe why not do a 10CC on this? Let me think about his... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Monkey Uncle Posted October 9, 2012 Members Share Posted October 9, 2012 OK... OK... somebody said something almost inadvertently about "Unless you could slow it down...". I can't find your quote so whoever it was, hide now or come forward depending... but...Why not slow it down? Do a section that just grooves. I promise I won't try and cop Dre or whoever. But the original part was written much slower. That is why keen heads like yourselves are thinking, but wait, that should work... Because it sort of does. But not at this breakneck tempo. What Ram picked up on. I do like where the tune is at now but, maybe why not do a 10CC on this?Let me think about his... Not sure if I'm the only one who said it, but that was me. It would be worth a shot just to see what it sounds like. If it doesn't work, you could always fall back on 'can it' or 'sing it.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mahuska Posted October 9, 2012 Members Share Posted October 9, 2012 Lee I am not familiar with any previous version. I might sound like I am going easy on you, but I like what you have so far. Sure a few tweaks here and there. I like the "rap" part, perhaps different vocal tonality or FX may sound even cooler. I don't think it detracts from the song, but that is just me. As usual great melody arrangement, lyrics, the works. Toward the end I hear a guitar line with a awesome George Harrison vibe. Cool.I am curious where this will go and which suggestion shared here you utilize.. I am of the mind that it is of great importance to heed advise of other's. In the end I need to be satisfied as well. A fine line I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shortchord Posted October 9, 2012 Members Share Posted October 9, 2012 It's not really bothering me. It was. I was down the rabbit hole then though. I tend to jam out a part, then replay it using the best bits and trying to do some repeating of key bits and really making it a part. Replay it or cut it up. With development and all. I think you do this intuitively, it seems.This one I just jammed out once and forgot about it. Then as I listened closer there was some cool stuff but I never went back and sort of composed the part around those best ideas.It's alive sounding though, I think. So I guess I'm good with it. Thanks for looking into it though... It's a very good part, and I think it does a great job of driving the track. If I were to nit-pick: 0:48 - I love the ascending line here, and I miss it when you don't repeat that same figure in the second chorus. I like the spontaneous nature of the bass line throughout, but this is one place where I would consider flying that part from the first chorus to the second. 1:10 - 1:14: The bass part sounds tentative here. Like maybe you almost started the second verse too soon and then caught yourself? Consider having the bass double the guitar's F# - E - C# - B line here, in the same octave as the guitar (i.e., starting on the F# on the G string) on the last repeat or two. 1:28 ("tell them what they wanna hear") - There's a sloppy note (sounds like you hit the fret). It didn't bother me in the prior version but the bass is more prominent in this mix and it really jumps out (to my bass player's ears, anyway). I love the track and the production, by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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