Members Dylanisgod Posted March 23, 2010 Members Share Posted March 23, 2010 Dylan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Matximus Posted March 23, 2010 Members Share Posted March 23, 2010 I'd say greatest and most influential songwriter living songwriter today is Max Martin. He's a genius - from Hit Me Baby to My Life Would Suck Without You and all of the great hits he's cowritten in the last 15 years or so. He's an unassuming legend. People that really understand songwriting know that he has an extremely rare gift to write and produce music that consistently connects with a lot of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sabriel9v Posted March 23, 2010 Members Share Posted March 23, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dparr Posted March 23, 2010 Members Share Posted March 23, 2010 Lennon/McCartney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted March 23, 2010 Members Share Posted March 23, 2010 Who was the songwriter in The Trolls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted March 23, 2010 Members Share Posted March 23, 2010 Well... I was just about to delete or lock this thread based on the 'no fan thread' rule but if you guys see a ball you want to run with, I'll let it roll on. Although I suspect it's just going to be one of those threads that generates a lot of predictable heat but not much light. And, while it is certainly just my opinion, to be frank, I've always thought ranking artists was pretty juvenile. I mean, can you imagine the Cole Porter and the Irving Berlin partisans having a street bang over it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted March 23, 2010 Members Share Posted March 23, 2010 Hugo Wolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted March 23, 2010 Members Share Posted March 23, 2010 No, wait! Schubert!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted March 23, 2010 Members Share Posted March 23, 2010 Hold on a sec! Faur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted March 23, 2010 Members Share Posted March 23, 2010 How could I forget Reynaldo Hahn?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Etienne Rambert Posted March 23, 2010 Members Share Posted March 23, 2010 "...can you imagine the Cole Porter and the Irving Berlin partisans having a street bang over it..." And it should be all-out gang warfare if those two are not in the discussion. (Takes down Tommy-Gun, sticks in a clip.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted March 23, 2010 Members Share Posted March 23, 2010 Hell... I think Stack can have a rumble all on his own from the looks of it. "...can you imagine the Cole Porter and the Irving Berlin partisans having a street bang over it..." And it should be all-out gang warfare if those two are not in the discussion. (Takes down Tommy-Gun, sticks in a clip.) And let's not forget the great Harry Warren, author, with lyricist Al Dubin, of the greatest song of the 20th Century (and cut when the century was only 1/3 over), "Remember My Forgotten Man" -- sung below by Joan Blondell and Etta Moten... Not just the century's best song, but its best video... 3jIofWwupLA (From the otherwise relatively light-hearted depression-era musical, "Gold Diggers of 1933," directed by yet another great, Busby Berkley. People probably mostly think of Berkley's big fluffy production numbers, but check out what happens above when he's got something serious to chew on. Check out Blondell as the proverbial prosti with a heart of gold as she stops a cop from taking a whack at a street bum with his night stick, reaching across to open his coat and show the cop the tarnished Medal of Valor clipped inside the lining. And take note of the marching to war sequence -- where the fresh soldiers marching to battle zip past the weary, wounded, devastated troops limping back, the speed of their marching accelerated by a treadmill. And the final production number... keep in mind, kiddies, there's no CGI there... that's a huge ass set with a jillion dancers. [He also directed some serious dramas and often injected serious sub-themes into his depression era extravaganzas.] That guy rocked.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted March 23, 2010 Members Share Posted March 23, 2010 Andy Partridge vs Colin Moulding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted March 23, 2010 Members Share Posted March 23, 2010 I was lucky enough to see XTC c. 1980 on what I believe was there only trip to LA. It was really, really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kurdy Posted March 23, 2010 Members Share Posted March 23, 2010 This is too broad a question. I think there are writers that were/are the best at different things, but in terms of the all-around greatest songwriter, I think that's almost impossible to answer. Dylan--probably the most innovate lyricist in rock 'n roll. Pushed the boundaries of what could be said in a pop song. But of course, without Woody Guthrie or Stephen Foster, there would probably be no Dylan. Paul McCartney--probably one of the greatest melodists in rock 'n roll. Of course, you could probably say that about Brian Wilson too. For craft, you couldn't beat the best of the Brill Building songwriters--King/Goffin, Leiber/Stoller, Mann/Weil. Of course, if you mention them, then you also have to mention the Motown writers as well--Holland/Dozier/Holland, Smokey Robinson, Whitfield/Strong, etc. Max Martin is probably one of the best current writers, in terms of great hooks. Although I'm sure there are many Nashville writers who could rival him easily in that department, and are better storytellers. For a current performing songwriter--I'd have to give that award to John Mayer. You can tell he pays attention to his craft. He has the knack for getting the point across in a song in a unique way. And of course, the pre-rock & roll songwriters--creators of the great American songbook: Irving Berlin, Cole Porter, George and Ira Gershwin--those guys could write circles around anyone in rock 'n roll today in terms of sophistication (and they were considered "pop" back then), but sadly, people don't talk about them much anymore. Burt Bachrach, Paul Simon, Jimmy Webb, Stevie Wonder...I could go on. Point is, I don't know if there is one "best" songwriter. Many of the "great" songwriters had different reasons why they were great. It wouldn't be fair to compare someone like Dylan with someone like Irving Berlin, because they're songs are very different. We're talking apples and oranges here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted March 23, 2010 Moderators Share Posted March 23, 2010 This is too broad a question. I think there are writers that were/are the best at different things, but in terms of the all-around greatest songwriter, I think that's almost impossible to answer. Dylan--probably the most innovate lyricist in rock 'n roll. Pushed the boundaries of what could be said in a pop song. But of course, without Woody Guthrie or Stephen Foster, there would probably be no Dylan. Paul McCartney--probably one of the greatest melodists in rock 'n roll. Of course, you could probably say that about Brian Wilson too. For craft, you couldn't beat the best of the Brill Building songwriters--King/Goffin, Leiber/Stoller, Mann/Weil. Of course, if you mention them, then you also have to mention the Motown writers as well--Holland/Dozier/Holland, Smokey Robinson, Whitfield/Strong, etc. Max Martin is probably one of the best current writers, in terms of great hooks. Although I'm sure there are many Nashville writers who could rival him easily in that department, and are better storytellers. For a current performing songwriter--I'd have to give that award to John Mayer. You can tell he pays attention to his craft. He has the knack for getting the point across in a song in a unique way. And of course, the pre-rock & roll songwriters--creators of the great American songbook: Irving Berlin, Cole Porter, George and Ira Gershwin--those guys could write circles around anyone in rock 'n roll today in terms of sophistication (and they were considered "pop" back then), but sadly, people don't talk about them much anymore. Burt Bachrach, Paul Simon, Jimmy Webb, Stevie Wonder...I could go on. Point is, I don't know if there is one "best" songwriter. Many of the "great" songwriters had different reasons why they were great. It wouldn't be fair to compare someone like Dylan with someone like Irving Berlin, because they're songs are very different. We're talking apples and oranges here. I'll say all of the above ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChordGirl Posted March 23, 2010 Members Share Posted March 23, 2010 I'll add Kris Kristopherson, Johnny Cash, and John Prine to the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dparr Posted March 23, 2010 Members Share Posted March 23, 2010 Bruce Cockburn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dparr Posted March 23, 2010 Members Share Posted March 23, 2010 I think Webb is the goofiest songwriter, bar none. More so, even, that that deathless poet/musicians who inked the immortal, "Yellow Polka Dot Bikini" (Lee Pockriss/Paul Vance) or "Beep Beep," aka "The Little Nash Rambler" (Carl Cicchetti and Donald Claps)... Stuff like "MacArthur Park" -- I mean, damn, the guy was just out there... He also wrote: Galveston Highwayman Wichita Lineman The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress By the Time I Get to Phoenix If These Walls Could Speak The Worst That Could Happen All I Know One of Americas greatest songwriters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted March 23, 2010 Members Share Posted March 23, 2010 You managed to get that quoted before I deleted it. (See, kids, I'm even harder on myself when I've got the moderator hat on.) Thankfully, you didn't catch it during the brief period I was misattributing the far goofier "Windmills of Your Mind" to Webb (it's actually Michel Legrand with those lyrics by Alan Bergman and Marilyn Bergman). I do think "Phoenix" is a great little song and I've got a soft spot for "Wichita" as well... I guess Glenn Cambell was (briefly) to Webb what Dionne Warwick was to Burt Bacharach... Maybe that's what I need... a front man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted March 23, 2010 Members Share Posted March 23, 2010 I've only mentioned art song composers, and I have been patiently waiting for one of you scholars to mention Townes Van Zandt, who is not only the greatest songwriter ever but he also hails from the greatest state ever, Texas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted March 23, 2010 Members Share Posted March 23, 2010 I'll see your TVZ and raise you one Guy Clark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted March 23, 2010 Members Share Posted March 23, 2010 I'll see your TVZ and raise you one Guy Clark. Even Guy Clark knows that he's not a higher hand/raise than TVZ. Not even Dylan can beat TVZ -- as Steve Earle has so famously said on top of Dylan's coffee table while wearing his cowboy boots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jersey Jack Posted March 23, 2010 Members Share Posted March 23, 2010 And in response, TVZ said something like this: "I've seen Bob Dylan's body guards, and if Steve thinks he's getting anywhere near Bob Dylan's coffee table, he's crazy." (Taken from memory.) This would prove, conclusively and for all eternity, that TVZ is the best songwriter. But here in New Jersey we have this other guy.... and he's the Boss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted March 23, 2010 Members Share Posted March 23, 2010 Chris Christie? Eminently qualified to be the big boss man by most any real world measure, be it Metric or Avoirdupois. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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