Members Oswlek Posted March 6, 2012 Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 JUMP TO PAGE TWO!!!!! I passed this through a while back and got pretty far along, but let it drift away before the final coat of polish was applied. Here are the lyrics and a demo, with some additional details beneath. http://picosong.com/wnY9 - please be aware a few lines are sung differently. The text below is more up-to-date. V1You wake up on the couch againAll stiff and sore, the TV spinningThe same old tune it played the night beforeV2It's haunted you since your high school daysYou never could get your poor ass laidAnd you played the game like a total God damned foolV3So you hitch to the first girl who gaveA token shred of appreciationBut now she's gone and you don't know what to doCSo you crawl out of bedAnd grab a cigaretteAnd you try to clear your headV4Your friends they try to fix you upJust play it cool and have some funHey! I've got the perfect girl for youV5Another day you still don't phoneIt's just as well you've always knownShe's too good for you anyway Questionable areas are in red 1) "Hitch to" sounds too much like marriage, which isn't exactly what I meant to say. I suppose it could be taken that way, and maybe it is even stronger if it involves a divorce, but it's really just about putting too much faith in that first love. 2) I really wanted to convey that she wasn't the right person in the first place, but am struggling to say that within one line (or perhaps two with a rewrite of the "hitch" line). Right now it is too up-in-the-air why she is gone. 3) "She's too good" - is supposed to convey that ALL girls are too good, a serious lack of self-worth and confidence, but I don't think it quite pulled it off. At the very least, is it clear that "she" is the woman his friends are setting him up with? Some additional thoughts * Marshall was looking for some more clarity in the chorus, the root of the matter, but I can't pull it off. I'm open to a rewrite if offered some specific direction, but a simple nudge isn't going to be enough at this point. * LCK wasn't a big fan of "appreciation", but I really like how it sings, so it stays for now, barring a total rewrite of that line to solve problems #1 and #2 above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhino55 Posted March 6, 2012 Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 I'd keep 'hitch to' and play of that phrase for the 3rd line of that verse. Horse without a tether, jackknifed trailer, etc I like the simplicity of the chorus. I don't like bed in the first line because the first verse says you woke up on the couch again. Maybe 'your bed' would fix it. And you try to clear your head is the main thing that I think needs changing. I like the sentiment. I think it rings true. Hell, we've probably all been there. I just think you can do a much better job with the language. something something bedtry to clear your head feels like it has been done to death. For V5 I'd probably just say 'They're all too good for you anyway' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted March 6, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 I knew you'd catch the couch/bed thing, Ryan. Can't sneak that by you. I considered "They're too good" but I worry that it will sound like his friends are too good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhino55 Posted March 6, 2012 Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 I knew you'd catch the couch/bed thing, Ryan. Can't sneak that by you. I considered "They're too good" but I worry that it will sound like his friends are too good. There I go again being all linear and {censored}. I think even if the listener heard wrong and thought you were saying he thought his friends were too good for him, it would still have the desired effect. Low self esteem, isolation, maybe a little depression all sounds like what you are trying to get across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LCK Posted March 6, 2012 Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 I remember this song. I quite like it. I'll have to re-listen when I have more time. "Hitch" is the only glitch I see so far. LCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stickboymusic Posted March 6, 2012 Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 I remember this song. I quite like it.I'll have to re-listen when I have more time."Hitch" is the only glitch I see so far.LCK yeh agree how about "wed with..." kinda ties in with shred on the next line also not fully convinced on this the TV spinningThe same old tune it played the night before sounds like something a record player would do...not a tv.... do tv's spin tunes? i guess in a way they may do.... maybe change spinning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rickidoo Posted March 6, 2012 Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 Quite pretty tune. Another day you still don't phoneIt's just as well you've always knownShe's too good for you anyway me wants to get rid of "well", as well as "It's" I think it still works melodically: Another day you still don't phonejust as you've always knownyou'd rather be alone ... I know that last line isn;'t what you aimed at, and it busts the rhyming scheme, but it' what I feel the lyrics are leading to (for me at least....) Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted March 7, 2012 Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 I think this is good. I can hear the melodic structure of the verse working really well in full production with other instrumentation.The chorus however isn't as melodically developed as the verse.In the final chorus you improvise with some vocal variation that feels better than the preceding choruses.Maybe the middle chorus should also be a 5 or 6 liner - I think that could be a benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LCK Posted March 7, 2012 Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 * LCK wasn't a big fan of "appreciation", but I really like how it sings, so it stays for now, barring a total rewrite of that line to solve problems #1 and #2 above. I wasn't? Hmmm. Sorry. I kind of like it this time around. It's one of those unexpected rhymes that doesn't land on the last note, but comes in the middle of a word (in fact, it's actually a kind of assonance). In fact, this time around I was thinking the song could use a few more of them. Maybe hang on to instead of hitch to? Or grabbed on to? So you grabbed on to the first girl who gavea token shred of appreciation, butnow she's gone and you don't know what to do If I were you I'd go for an actual rhyme on the 4th verse. Your friends all try to fix you up.You look into your coffee cup and yousay, "I don't know. But thanks, anyway..." Another day, you still don't phone What the hell, you've always known that you'llnever have a player's resume. (a lover's resume? the perfect resume?) Just some ideas. LCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LCK Posted March 7, 2012 Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 The chorus however isn't as melodically developed as the verse. That's a consideration of mine as well. You seem to just wind down, presumably to imitate how this guy feels about his life. But those last couple of notes on the chorus feel like a let down to me (and presumably to other listeners). But I love the tune, the basic premise, 99% of the execution of said premise, and the chords are fabuloso. LCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted March 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 Lots to respond to Stick - I know it is a mixed metaphor, but I like it, gives the impression that it is little more than background noise. I could change it to "CD spinning" but that seems more intentional. Rick - I'll give those changes some thought, particularly line #2. OGP and LCK - Would a counter melody in the chorus add the spice you are looking for? If not, would you mind offering some specific advice on what words you hear some inflection changes? Even notes if you know what they are (the song is in E and the chorus goes E-A, E-A, F#m, B). Much of the absence is dancing is the need to craft melodies around my (lack of) abilities. Doesn't "head" being low in the first chorus set up the rise at the end of the second chorus? I totally get what you are saying theoretically, but I'm not quite there applicably. LCK - I hadn't thought of squeezing an "on" into the phrase. I'm thinking either "hold on to" or "latch on to", and leaning towards the latter. Are you providing ideas for V4 because you think it needs help? I kind of like the casualness of it, which is rare for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted March 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 Singing it through a few times, "hold" flows the best, by far, which is too bad because it is the least descriptive word. But it just sounds so much better that the alternatives. I'm also considering turning what I currently sing as the chorus into a backing melody, and writing another more prominant lead vocal that plays off of and interacts with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LCK Posted March 7, 2012 Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 Are you providing ideas for V4 because you think it needs help? I kind of like the casualness of it, which is rare for me. I was just fiddling around with it. LCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted March 7, 2012 Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 OGP and LCK - Would a counter melody in the chorus add the spice you are looking for? If not, would you mind offering some specific advice on what words you hear some inflection changes? Even notes if you know what they are (the song is in E and the chorus goes E-A, E-A, F#m, B). Much of the absence is dancing is the need to craft melodies around my (lack of) abilities. Doesn't "head" being low in the first chorus set up the rise at the end of the second chorus?I totally get what you are saying theoretically, but I'm not quite there applicably. I tried scatting a 6 line chorus using some different chords (I really think you need to start the chorus in something other than E).G#m / A / C#m / EC#m / E / F#7 / B Another way is :G#m / A / C#m / EF#m / E / F#m7 / B It works for me scatting a melody over the top, and then it falls quite naturally back into the verse melody.Give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted March 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 Some melodic sameness issues, huh? I just spent 20 minutes playing around with your ideas and I can't make it work, OGP. C#m is too generic and G#m isn't what I am looking for. I'll have to see if I can fake out the listener with some layering on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted March 7, 2012 Moderators Share Posted March 7, 2012 I love the chorus melody and chords. I think the main issue in the song, for me, is the chorus lyric doesn't sum up, doesn't offer any insight. For instance So you crawl out of bedAnd grab a cigaretteYou remember the things he saidBe someone that you could look up toBut you're through, yeah you're throughAs you crawl out of bed Something that brings the verses to some sort of conclusion. Even if that conclusion is inconclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted March 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 I love the chorus melody and chords. I think the main issue in the song, for me, is the chorus lyric doesn't sum up, doesn't offer any insight. For instanceSo you crawl out of bedAnd grab a cigaretteYou remember the things he saidBe someone that you could look up toBut you're through, yeah you're throughAs you crawl out of bedSomething that brings the verses to some sort of conclusion. Even if that conclusion is inconclusive. This was precisely what Marshall said. I think he might have even used the terms "insight" and "summary". I'm hesitant to extend the chorus since the song is already over 4:00 and so it has been a near impossibility to offer anything more. Can you parse your idea down to three lines? I wouldn't mind going with a "recall the things you/she said" except that it is a direct cop from "Turn the Page". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted March 7, 2012 Moderators Share Posted March 7, 2012 Well... I think you need to pare down the verses. I think you're falling prey to the luxury of lots of verse real estate. And for me, that's where the song is falling short. We don't need detail, we need illumination on the detail from a chorus. Your 1st verse is 24 bars long. That's long. Your 2nd is 16. That's long but works. I'd shorten them both to 16... V1You wake up on the couch againAll stiff and sore, the TV spinningThe same old tune it played the night before (How are you sleeping on the couch and then crawling out of bed? I'd ditch this one. It doesn't add anything the chorus isn't already saying. Leave it for the chorus.) Small changes and some rearranging: V1It's haunted you since high school daysYou never got your poor ass laidYou played the game like some backwoods, naive foolSo you latch onto the first girl who gave yaA token shred of appreciationBut now she's gone and you don't know what to do (naive fool) CSo you crawl out of bedAnd grab a cigaretteYou remember the things he saidBe someone that you could look up toBut you're through, yeah you're throughAs you crawl out of bed V2Your friends they try to fix you upJust play it cool and have some funHey! I've got the perfect girl for youAnother day you still don't phoneIt's just as well you've always knownShe's too good for you anyway CSo you crawl out of bedAnd grab a cigaretteYou remember the things your father saidBe someone that you could look up toLike he knew, sure... he knewAs you crawl out of bed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LCK Posted March 7, 2012 Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 This was precisely what Marshall said. I think he might have even used the terms "insight" and "summary". I'm hesitant to extend the chorus since the song is already over 4:00 and so it has been a near impossibility to offer anything more.Can you parse your idea down to three lines?I wouldn't mind going with a "recall the things you/she said" except that it is a direct cop from "Turn the Page". I think the only thing "wrong" with the chorus is the downturn on the melody in the last line. If I were you I'd try a key change in the chorus just to see where that takes you. I also don't see any inconsistencies in watching TV on the couch in the first verse and crawling out of bed in the chorus. LCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted March 7, 2012 Moderators Share Posted March 7, 2012 He's not "watching TV". You wake up on the couch again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted March 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 He's not "watching TV". That is going to be hard to ditch, probably my favorite lyric of the entire song. He isn't watching TV, but he was last night and fell asleep. That is why when he wakes up it is still blaring. I'm also unsure about starting on a verse on the "laid" part. That said, you did force me to review it and I wonder how necessary V3 is. V2 implies unlucky in love, does V3 really say anything necessary? If so, could I rewrite the chorus to make that statement? So you held on to her....???????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stickboymusic Posted March 7, 2012 Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 would this work? CSo you crawl INTO bedSTUB OUT YOUR cigaretteAnd you try to clear your head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted March 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 would this work?CSo you crawl INTO bedSTUB OUT YOUR cigaretteAnd you try to clear your head I thought about making it crawling into bed, but couldn't pull it off despite it seeming so simple now that I read this. Definitely worth checking out when I get home, though not illuminating in the way Lee hopes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stickboymusic Posted March 7, 2012 Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 I thought about making it crawling into bed, but couldn't pull it off despite it seeming so simple now that I read this. Definitely worth checking out when I get home, though not illuminating in the way Lee hopes. I think it will clear it a little for lee with the waking on the sofa....then seemingly crawling out of bed.... im sure these were separate days but they "could" by one day which "may" cause confusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted March 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 I think the only thing "wrong" with the chorus is the downturn on the melody in the last line. I'll see what a key change can do, but I know for certain that I won't be able to do it live, because the fingerings demand an open E shape. I'm also struggling to figure out any other way to end the chorus other than down, which IMO sets up the later rise at the end of #2 into the interlude. I have devloped a few alternate melodies that do some dancing on "try" and "clear" but even those drop back down on "head". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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