Moderators Lee Knight Posted June 6, 2013 Moderators Share Posted June 6, 2013 (lyric in and below vid both) A revisit. I was going through my older stuff looking for a spark plug and listened to this for the first time in 3 years. I like it now more than I remember but it has some issues too. The arrangment needs a bit of a kick in the ass, etc. And still... But the song proper... ...it always felt like an odd thing to be singing about the born loser without showing any hope. Any ideas on how I might bring a slight or not so slight shift to the whole POV here? For instance... an old buddy called out of the blue last night and told me about his book release. It's a Christian title. He doesn't remember I'm a devout agnostic. Or maybe he does. But he wants to start writing some tunes with me and suggested I help him with some modern praise stuff. I'm sort of the worst guy for that job and yet... maybe not. What if the cynicism present in Downhill Slippery were used in a "foxhole" setting. Everyone's a believer in a foxhole. A loser never wins except when... or not. Anyway... anything here to revisit and betterize? And praisify even? IntroDownhill slippery, slippery downhill slippery, slip-slippery downhill slippery... etc V1My hands are bleeding from the climingFingers torn up red and rawI'm told it's all about the timingThey can't deny my last hurrah I've got the rim tight under my gripThe mossy edging starts to rideNo way in hell that you'll see me slipAs I start my backwards slide C1Cause I loser never winsHe can only hopeThat the ride ain't too roughOn his downhill slippery slopeOn this downhill slippery slope V2My life begins to flash before meOr should I say it flashed behindI'd yell for help; they'll just ignore meI shoulda quit before I tried C2Cause I loser never winsHe can only hopeThat the ride ain't too roughOn his downhill slippery slopeOn this downhill slippery slope BridgeIn a black cloud shadow sittin'Every ice cold drop of rain reminds youGotta find your firm footin'Giving every ounce you gotCause the storm will always find youHow wet you get is what defines you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted June 6, 2013 Members Share Posted June 6, 2013 A loser never winsStill I have to hopeXXXXXXXXXXXOn this downhill slippery slope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Monkey Uncle Posted June 6, 2013 Members Share Posted June 6, 2013 I think the issue here is that the music is so bouncy and happy, but the lyric is all gloom and doom. The music is definitely looking for the silver lining. So yeah, if you're wedded to that tune, I think you need to show some hope. "I'm so wet that water's running down the crack of my ass, but at least I'm clean!" Maybe not. But you get the idea. Think about how to twist a line or two in the chorus toward the positive. Personally, I'd look for a way to twist the music so that it accentuates the negative, but that's just me. I don't think that's your cup of tea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LCK Posted June 6, 2013 Members Share Posted June 6, 2013 The first verse kicks ass. It's fan-frickin'-tastic. The chorus is great too. Just really great.You "slip" up a little lyrically on "my grip" (prosody sore thumb), and rhyming "find you" with "defines you."The only thing I think is missing is something besides the mountain climbing analogy -- what is this character's actual, real-life downhill situation? And why should we care?Did he act too slowly to get the promotion? Did he say to his girlfriend, "Sure, it's okay if you go out with your ex just for one night, you know, just to catch up..." ? What's got him sliding downhill?Other than that one little hook into the story, I think it's great. Great, great, great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted June 6, 2013 Members Share Posted June 6, 2013 I read the lyric with the volume turned off, and thought to myself - "Lee crafts better lyrics than these nowadays". Let me answer his questions about POV and maybe Christian ideas in a universal sense, and this is what came out (without hearing your music)(but I can hear you singing it): There are born losers and born winners But that can turn around at any time The last can come first And the first come last Life's game 'aint written in reason or rhyme Then I listen to the song, and loved the music and vocal melody. But I agree the music and lyric aren't completely happy bedfellows yet. If you send me an mp3 of the music without lyric - I'd love to write a lyric for this. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted June 7, 2013 Members Share Posted June 7, 2013 Lee Knight wrote: A revisit. I was going through my older stuff looking for a spark plug and listened to this for the first time in 3 years. I like it now more than I remember but it has some issues too. The arrangment needs a bit of a kick in the ass, etc. And still... But the song proper... ...it always felt like an odd thing to be singing about the born loser without showing any hope. Any ideas on how I might bring a slight or not so slight shift to the whole POV here? For instance... an old buddy called out of the blue last night and told me about his book release. It's a Christian title. He doesn't remember I'm a devout agnostic. Or maybe he does. But he wants to start writing some tunes with me and suggested I help him with some modern praise stuff. I'm sort of the worst guy for that job and yet... maybe not. What if the cynicism present in Downhill Slippery were used in a "foxhole" setting. Everyone's a believer in a foxhole. A loser never wins except when... or not. Anyway... anything here to revisit and betterize? And praisify even? It's great. Just great. You're so good as a producer that I can't really judge what the underlying song might be lacking, but it's all about the end product, and the end product here is great. As a songwriter you are giving hints to the arranger, and as an arranger you are giving hints to the performers, and as a performer you are giving hints to the mixer but I don't think it matters where the vision originates and where the vision gets realized, and in the case where the same person is serving in all of those capacities the distinction is moot anyway.Long story short, this is a great track. And don't do the praise co-write - I know you're a pro but life is too short to work on things you don't believe in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LCK Posted June 7, 2013 Members Share Posted June 7, 2013 rsadasiv wrote: It's great. Just great... Long story short, this is a great track... Yep. It is such a pleasure to listen to your artistry and workmanship in all areas and all arenas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted June 7, 2013 Members Share Posted June 7, 2013 rsadasiv wrote: It's great. Just great. You're so good as a producer that I can't really judge what the underlying song might be lacking, but it's all about the end product, and the end product here is great. As a songwriter you are giving hints to the arranger, and as an arranger you are giving hints to the performers, and as a performer you are giving hints to the mixer but I don't think it matters where the vision originates and where the vision gets realized, and in the case where the same person is serving in all of those capacities the distinction is moot anyway. Long story short, this is a great track. And don't do the praise co-write - I know you're a pro but life is too short to work on things you don't believe in. I'm not sure I agree with this, though I'm coming at this from the perspective of a professional track, since you create finals of that caliber. For me, this is like an "idea" mix, something I might put together as a placeholder before getting into a studio to do it up for real. As is, it feels caught somewhere between an intimate mix and a pop mix, and wants to move in either direction. Or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted June 7, 2013 Author Moderators Share Posted June 7, 2013 Oswlek wrote: A loser never wins Still I have to hope XXXXXXXXXXX On this downhill slippery slope That's a good rethink. I'd like to explore that a bit. A loser never winsUntil he's got hopeThen the winner begins begins (stepping away from)This downhill slippery slope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted June 7, 2013 Author Moderators Share Posted June 7, 2013 Monkey Uncle wrote: I think the issue here is that the music is so bouncy and happy, but the lyric is all gloom and doom. The music is definitely looking for the silver lining. So yeah, if you're wedded to that tune, I think you need to show some hope. "I'm so wet that water's running down the crack of my ass, but at least I'm clean!" Maybe not. But you get the idea. Think about how to twist a line or two in the chorus toward the positive. Personally, I'd look for a way to twist the music so that it accentuates the negative, but that's just me. I don't think that's your cup of tea. Agreed. I'd like to get some sunny funny optimism here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted June 7, 2013 Author Moderators Share Posted June 7, 2013 LCK wrote: The first verse kicks ass. It's fan-frickin'-tastic. The chorus is great too. Just really great. You "slip" up a little lyrically on "my grip" (prosody sore thumb), and rhyming "find you" with "defines you." The only thing I think is missing is something besides the mountain climbing analogy -- what is this character's actual, real-life downhill situation? And why should we care? Did he act too slowly to get the promotion? Did he say to his girlfriend, "Sure, it's okay if you go out with your ex just for one night, you know, just to catch up..." ? What's got him sliding downhill? Other than that one little hook into the story, I think it's great. Great, great, great! Thanks Lee. Great stuff. It's funny in that I love the sound of the rough prosody with MY grip. It sounds cool to me. But who knows where this is going anyway. It may be gone. I'm not sure if story specifics are the way to go for this. Maybe. But it seems like it is about attitude. We are what we feel. We manifest what we see in our mind's eye. etc. IT does feel like it could easily move form the climing motif at V2, doesn't it? Anyway, thanks for those nice words as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted June 7, 2013 Author Moderators Share Posted June 7, 2013 oldgitplayer wrote: I read the lyric with the volume turned off, and thought to myself - "Lee crafts better lyrics than these nowadays". Let me answer his questions about POV and maybe Christian ideas in a universal sense, and this is what came out (without hearing your music)(but I can hear you singing it): There are born losers and born winners But that can turn around at any time The last can come first And the first come last Life's game 'aint written in reason or rhyme Then I listen to the song, and loved the music and vocal melody. But I agree the music and lyric aren't completely happy bedfellows yet. If you send me an mp3 of the music without lyric - I'd love to write a lyric for this. ... Thanks for the ideas Phil. But hey, I'm writing this one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted June 7, 2013 Author Moderators Share Posted June 7, 2013 rsadasiv wrote: Lee Knight wrote: A revisit. I was going through my older stuff looking for a spark plug and listened to this for the first time in 3 years. I like it now more than I remember but it has some issues too. The arrangement needs a bit of a kick in the ass, etc. And still... But the song proper... ...it always felt like an odd thing to be singing about the born loser without showing any hope. Any ideas on how I might bring a slight or not so slight shift to the whole POV here? For instance... an old buddy called out of the blue last night and told me about his book release. It's a Christian title. He doesn't remember I'm a devout agnostic. Or maybe he does. But he wants to start writing some tunes with me and suggested I help him with some modern praise stuff. I'm sort of the worst guy for that job and yet... maybe not. What if the cynicism present in Downhill Slippery were used in a "foxhole" setting. Everyone's a believer in a foxhole. A loser never wins except when... or not. Anyway... anything here to revisit and betterize? And praisify even? It's great. Just great. You're so good as a producer that I can't really judge what the underlying song might be lacking, but it's all about the end product, and the end product here is great. As a songwriter you are giving hints to the arranger, and as an arranger you are giving hints to the performers, and as a performer you are giving hints to the mixer but I don't think it matters where the vision originates and where the vision gets realized, and in the case where the same person is serving in all of those capacities the distinction is moot anyway. Long story short, this is a great track. And don't do the praise co-write - I know you're a pro but life is too short to work on things you don't believe in. I read this last night as I was dozing off and it made me smile. Thanks so much Ram. That is quite a compliment. About the praise boycott... I've always loved philosophical thinking. I love eastern religion and I love the teaching of Christ. I hate dogma and the concept of earth bound deities in general. I see them as really cool people with world changing ideas. Not the sons of God. But skirting around the deity issue... I'd love to try my hand at writing inspirational songs. We'll see. I just reminded him of my religious status via email. I might be fired before I can quit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted June 8, 2013 Author Moderators Share Posted June 8, 2013 That'd a great idea MU. I like that angle a lot. You've got he thinking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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