Members blue2blue Posted January 5, 2014 Members Share Posted January 5, 2014 Just stumbled across this fun and thought-provoking vid from the always-breathless Vi Hart... It hit home because just around the New Year I got a couple of long comments on a couple of vids on my YT channel that went pretty far out their way to be insulting. Mind you, I don't think he was lying about hating my music, though. I laughed it off but the animosity behind his comments kind of bugged me, you know, it wasn't so much that he was critical of my work as that he seemed to feel deeply offended that I even existed. Anyhow, I figured that the fact that the dude's insults had got under my skin signaled there must be some lesson there for me (not in his comments -- but in analyzing my responses to them). So I was charmed, in the intro to Vi's speed-ramble through her comment ethos talking points, to hear her say just about the same thing: if negative comments from strangers get under your skin, it may well be because of something you need to deal with in yourself. ('Cause, heaven knows there's no fixing the broken, toxic folks who spend their idle hours trying to rain bile on others' lives. )Anyhow, Vi has some great little observations in the vid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted January 5, 2014 Moderators Share Posted January 5, 2014 Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted January 5, 2014 Members Share Posted January 5, 2014 Yes - but with punctuation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted January 6, 2014 Members Share Posted January 6, 2014 blue2blue wrote: Just stumbled across this fun and thought-provoking vid from the always-breathless Vi Hart... It hit home because just around the New Year I got a couple of long comments on a couple of vids on my YT channel that went pretty far out their way to be insulting. Mind you, I don't think he was lying about hating my music, though. I laughed it off but the animosity behind his comments kind of bugged me, you know, it wasn't so much that he was critical of my work as that he seemed to feel deeply offended that I even existed. Anyhow, I figured that the fact that the dude's insults had got under my skin signaled there must be some lesson there for me (not in his comments -- but in analyzing my responses to them). So I was charmed, in the intro to Vi's speed-ramble through her comment ethos talking points, to hear her say just about the same thing: if negative comments from strangers get under your skin, it may well be because of something you need to deal with in yourself. ('Cause, heaven knows there's no fixing the broken, toxic folks who spend their idle hours trying to rain bile on others' lives. ) Anyhow, Vi has some great little observations in the vid. Mark's reference to T. a Kempis is a good example of the wealth of insight that can be found in numerous works coming out of the western Christian monastic tradition. Living in a monastary with the same guys for decades....I can only think you'd either have to come to grips with people-problems or else figure out how to get yourself kicked out before you go insane. For me, however, the habit of turning outside irritants into an opportunity for self-examination and self-correction, just comes too easily. Which is a fault of another sort. My question to myself has to be - what is my motivation for self-examination here? Is it to avoid pain? Meaning...am I trying to obtain some super-equable or mega-confident internal temperment that will protect me from feeling pain when mistreated or criticized by others? If so...to my mind, that's not good - it's trying to be only half-human, while looking maybe superhuman to others. One thing a friend of mine said decades ago I've never forgotten is that sometimes, you just have to take it like a dog. Pain is part of the complete picture of being human. But if my motivation for the self-examination and self-correction is to cure a real fault of my own - a lack of compassion, or harboring resentment, or nursing a desire for retribution, then yeah, I'm all for it. The deal is this - seems to me that, if you internalize conflict too easily, you can becomes a perfect sucker for the bad co-dependent thing where one person is the bully and you (generalized you, here), the victim, blames him/herself for being bullied. I think, hope, pray, that I've managed to avoid this pitfall in life, but the pit never goes away and it's always just a step or two away ready to receive me if I fall... But it's still very true - someone can get your goat only if you've got a goat to get. I've yet to meet a 100\% goat-free person. nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted January 6, 2014 Moderators Share Posted January 6, 2014 I love this, Nat. nat whilk II wrote: One thing a friend of mine said decades ago I've never forgotten is that sometimes, you just have to take it like a dog. Pain is part of the complete picture of being human. It's the anguish we can create around the incident that buries us. Accepting the pain is part of Budduh's path to "awakening". And seeing it's roots (self centered craving that things were different than they are) then letting it go... is also part of it. A momentary parting of the clouds to see truth before we let them close again. But repeating this dealing with anguish and its roots... that's awakening. The clouds remain parted just a little longer each time and part more frequently. Accepting there will be pain is only part of it. Not to go all Buddha on you or anything. I love this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted January 6, 2014 Moderators Share Posted January 6, 2014 ???? I'm an agnostic as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mbfrancis Posted January 6, 2014 Members Share Posted January 6, 2014 Great topic. My life became infinitely easier when I started practicing the serenity prayer and accepting things I couldn't change: I used to spend inordinate time resenting people I thought would be happier if they lived as I thought they should, or would change their mind if I came up with the precise set of words in an argument. Nope. Also, I often found that when people disturbed me, always I had some part in it - either their behavior reminded me of my own, or I had done something to start the ball rolling, or I lacked the ability to accept them as they were. But the disturbance was something *I* ultimately had power over. Which makes sense: if you make your serenity and peace dependent on the behavior of other people you are f&*ked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted January 6, 2014 Author Members Share Posted January 6, 2014 nat whilk II wrote: blue2blue wrote: Just stumbled across this fun and thought-provoking vid from the always-breathless Vi Hart... It hit home because just around the New Year I got a couple of long comments on a couple of vids on my YT channel that went pretty far out their way to be insulting. Mind you, I don't think he was lying about hating my music, though. I laughed it off but the animosity behind his comments kind of bugged me, you know, it wasn't so much that he was critical of my work as that he seemed to feel deeply offended that I even existed. Anyhow, I figured that the fact that the dude's insults had got under my skin signaled there must be some lesson there for me (not in his comments -- but in analyzing my responses to them). So I was charmed, in the intro to Vi's speed-ramble through her comment ethos talking points, to hear her say just about the same thing: if negative comments from strangers get under your skin, it may well be because of something you need to deal with in yourself. ('Cause, heaven knows there's no fixing the broken, toxic folks who spend their idle hours trying to rain bile on others' lives. )Anyhow, Vi has some great little observations in the vid. Mark's reference to T. a Kempis is a good example of the wealth of insight that can be found in numerous works coming out of the western Christian monastic tradition. Living in a monastary with the same guys for decades....I can only think you'd either have to come to grips with people-problems or else figure out how to get yourself kicked out before you go insane. For me, however, the habit of turning outside irritants into an opportunity for self-examination and self-correction, just comes too easily. Which is a fault of another sort. My question to myself has to be - what is my motivation for self-examination here? Is it to avoid pain? Meaning...am I trying to obtain some super-equable or mega-confident internal temperment that will protect me from feeling pain when mistreated or criticized by others? If so...to my mind, that's not good - it's trying to be only half-human, while looking maybe superhuman to others. One thing a friend of mine said decades ago I've never forgotten is that sometimes, you just have to take it like a dog. Pain is part of the complete picture of being human. But if my motivation for the self-examination and self-correction is to cure a real fault of my own - a lack of compassion, or harboring resentment, or nursing a desire for retribution, then yeah, I'm all for it. The deal is this - seems to me that, if you internalize conflict too easily, you can becomes a perfect sucker for the bad co-dependent thing where one person is the bully and you (generalized you, here), the victim, blames him/herself for being bullied. I think, hope, pray, that I've managed to avoid this pitfall in life, but the pit never goes away and it's always just a step or two away ready to receive me if I fall... But it's still very true - someone can get your goat only if you've got a goat to get. I've yet to meet a 100\% goat-free person. nat whilk ii I don't think this advice is so much about internalizing conflict at all; if anything, I think it may give one a way out of being 'trapped' in negative feelings fostered in oneself by the perceived cruelty or disregard of others. To me it seems that the advice is to surrender one's self-delusion of control over situations (including even internal situations like feeling hurt because of someone else's cruelty) to a 'higher power.' I can't directly change my antagonist, Joe Blow, who is just acting out his own pain, so I just count him as 'out of my control.' And if I obsess on the negative feelings the antagonism has created in me, I acknowledge my inability to immediately will change in myself and, similarly, give those unresolved negative feelings over to that 'higher power.' That said, I think when one continually gets hung up on the feelings such externals produce, there probably are related lessons one may need to learn about oneself. Maybe your goat is just to easy to be got. That's not directly related to the truth or lack of it in the antagonist's statements -- it's simply dealing with the mechanisms in oneself that continue to produce those feelings even if one has dealt with them intellectually and practically. If the negative feelings persist beyond the point where they are helpful, persit after productive or prompt sensible corrective action (if any is even deemed necessary), they're probably not doing their holder any good. If it sounds like program-think, while I've never been an active 12 step person, I've found that a number of 12 step strategies have dovetailed well with my own worldview and offer practical advice in situations that often otherwise may produce irrational -- and unhelpful -- reactions and behaviors. Circling back around to co-dependencies and problem relationships, I found back in my 20s that, for me, the intellectual conceit of imaging that no one else has free will but me helped me deal with other people in a much calmer, more understanding, and flexible approach. I had been highly reactive to people (it's kind of my own nature, not to cross shade ) and their various and many faults increasingly seemed to bug me and make me increasingly judgmental. At one point, I sort of realized that I'd defined so much of my world as small-minded, venal, and mean-spirited, that there was precious little standing room left. And, being an idealist/solipsist, I knew that world was all up inside my head -- I was filling my head with all that negative definition and judgment -- and it was quickly making me a very dark, misanthropic soul. (Imagine. That much worse. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted January 6, 2014 Author Members Share Posted January 6, 2014 Lee Knight wrote: ???? I'm an agnostic as well. To me, it just seems the rational approach. It doesn't deny anything -- except self-certainty and willful self-deception. And, for me, it doesn't prevent a spiritual orientation to the universe. I'm just not trying to put that which I fully believe is unknowable inside some box of pretend knowledge. That said, I've pretty much always been into comparative religions and philosophies. (One of the first books I ever got as a present, maybe the first, was a book of folklore and mythology from my old-school Deist grandparents. OK, they were Lutheran, originally. ) There are, seems to me, bits and pieces of very practical wisdom as well as tantalizing insights into what I sometimes call capital-M mystery in most of the world's philosophical and religous traditions. I feel an intellectual bond with the Hermeticists, who felt the ultimate nature of the universe was innate in all parts of it, from the macrocosmic to the microcosmic. (And THEY didn't even have fractals. Exactly. Ever look at some of the world's prayer rugs, though? Magic carpet ride.) (Sadly, of course, the human stewards of those traditions have far too often perverted them for their own ends or out of some helpless enslavement to their own internal torment and pain. But THAT's for some other thread in some other forum. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted January 7, 2014 Moderators Share Posted January 7, 2014 Ah! I missunderstood... Thanks for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mark Blackburn Posted January 7, 2014 Members Share Posted January 7, 2014 Isn't communication a wonderful thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.