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Question for Guitarists who Read Notation


peterp79

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EDIT: Sorry everyone, I probably should have posted this in a different forum. I don't know how to delete my post. Any feedback is appreciated nonetheless.

 

Hello Forum,

 

I'm guitarist who has been playing a good while (~18 yrs) and recently decided to learn how to read music notation. I'm working through a book designed for guitarists to learn how to read music.

 

The book suggests picking directions (upstrokes or downstrokes) for particular notes/rhythms. At times, the book's picking suggestions seem counterintuitive, and I feel it would make more sense for me to pick the notes in a different direction than suggested.

 

As I'm new to reading music, I'm not sure if it's important for me to hang in there and try to follow the author's picking direction suggestions, even if they don't make sense to me. I guess my question boils down to this: am I making a mistake if I pick notes according to the way that feels natural and easiest to me, or is there some reason that it's important for me to know and use a specific approach for picking directions when reading music?

 

I hope that made sense. Thanks in advance.

 

-Peter

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I'm a violinist, and we're probably as picky about which way to go as anyone. Generally speaking, you should try to do whatever it is with the suggested picking direction-style, and if you reject it, you should know why and be able to do it your way convincingly. I've got stacks of music with some famous violinist bowings and fingerings, only to have my teacher at the time put in theirs. And sometimes I found my own way even so. Your way has to actually work and work well though.

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There's not always just one correct way to pick something. Most of the time it depends on what your aim is, musically, or the type of lick you're playing, or even just the tempo that you're playing it at.

 

That said, the author's picking most likely has a reason and logic to it. He wouldn't have put the time into notating all the picking if it were random. I'd go with what's in the book, but keep in mind that it's not an absolute "this is the only correct answer" thing, but rather, one good solution that will work.

 

Typically, in most reading books, the picking it based upon the rhythm. For music where the 8th note is the smallest subdivision, downstrokes are for notes on downbeats, and upstrokes are for notes on upbeats. For music where 16th notes are the smallest subdivision, the picking follows the subdivision - 1 e + a = down up down up. Where/when the note falls in the measure dictates whether it's an up or a down.

 

That's one main picking approach. The other is economy picking, which is simple in principle, but complicated in application, where the picking can break the above listed rules depending on how you're changing strings. This approach is compatible with strict alternating as mentioned above, and can be blended in as "exceptions" to the rule, on a case-by-case basis.

 

Again, I'd go with what's in the book for simplicity, but keeping in mind it's not the only solution. Ideally, you should be comfortable picking things in a number of ways, if need be.

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It might be a good idea to check the fingering too. A given picking pattern may make more sense in light of where an indicated fingering puts you on the neck. If it's indicated for something to be played on lower strings/higher up the neck, rather than higher strings lower on the neck, one might necessitate a certain picking pattern that is different than the other, I would think.. It's that way with the violin and bowing anyway. Also, while it may seem inconvenient, or counter-intuitive at first -something that is suggested to be played higher up the neck on lower strings will have a different tone, color, or quality that is desirable and important enough to warrant the added difficulty. I hope that makes sense. smiley-happy

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Since all the input is in this twin, here's my post from the other.

 

 

03-13-2015, 12:58 AM

In legitimate methods, fingerings and pickings usually reflect some specific concern. Be it phrasing. inflective, or technical, the indicated execution will shape the results and therefore the musical output. I'd go with a competent instructor.

 

http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/forum/guitar/acapella-40/31444551-picking-directions-when-reading-music

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I would follow the instructions if you practice just for the sake of practice. If you're 'practicing' a song that you will eventually play live' date=' i would listen to your intuition. [/quote']

 

This can have mixed results. Exactly what methods are trying to prevent.

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I would follow the instructions if you practice just for the sake of practice. If you're 'practicing' a song that you will eventually play live' date=' i would listen to your intuition. [/quote']

 

If you mean that when the chips are down, one does what seems like a good idea, I don't have a problem with that. Sometimes practice can mean exploring new ways, sometimes it means refining the way that you've chosen.

 

Practice puts arrows in your quiver. Intuition suggests which one to use.

 

If you're a consumate master, Bruce Lee for instance, you can set aside dogma, tradition...use it when it suits you, or put something that works better for you in it's place. But that's only if you've studied and practiced hard enough to know the difference.

 

 

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I'm working through a book designed for guitarists to learn how to read music.

Mistake #1. You don't need a book to learn how to read music for guitar or any other instrument. You can fit all the knowledge necessary to read 90% of music on a single sheet of paper. Ask a pianist to write it down for you. Make yourself some flashcards. All you really need to know is the basic logic behind it, and you can figure the rest out for yourself. Just mark down where on the staff each open string is and go from there. You can come up with whatever method you want to try and make the connection between what your fingers are doing and what you're seeing on the page. Take a song you already know and figure out how to write it in notation. Writing is as much a part of the learning process as playing - you already KNOW how to play the guitar, what you're trying to learn is how to translate notation on a page into something your fingers already know how to do - so start backwards! Figuring out how to notate things you're already know by heart will probably teach you how to read 1000x faster than some stupid book. If you really need help from someone, your money is much better spent on a competent music teacher. Seriously, if you don't have any music friends who know this stuff, just book a lesson or two with a piano teacher - I'm sure the person would get a kick out of just teaching the basics of how to read notation.

 

And really, the hardest part is learning how to accurately translate complicated rhythms... that still gives me trouble sometimes. Reading notes is NOTHING... the rhythms are the bitch of it.

 

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It's not much different than learning to read, as in words, out loud. And like anything else, the more you do it, the more you confront and struggle through the difficulties involved, the more angles you come at it from, the better you get at it.

 

There's a book of rhythm exercises by Robert Starer that's pretty good. But I agree with SoulSonicFX in that-without the teacher that held my feet to the fire-the book wouldn't have done me as much good. I met up with both when I was 15 and a student at The North Carolina School Of The Arts. There was no getting past Mona Larsen, sight-singing class and that book of rhythms...unless you could do it! :thu: And if after 3 trimesters you couldn't do it, you got sent home...for good.

 

I was at NCSA for another 3 years...whew. And I can read, baby! :cool:

 

 

 

 

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EDIT: I guess my question boils down to this: am I making a mistake if I pick notes according to the way that feels natural and easiest to me' date=' or is there some reason that it's important for me to know and use a specific approach for picking directions when reading music?[/quote']

 

It sounds to me like you're having a problem with alternate picking. It is a mistake to disregard this. Reading music is going to be partially dependent on muscle memory, and having the pick going in the same direction as your foot tapping is important. It makes reading more intuitive when you don't have to think about which direction your pick should be going in. It also helps with your timing, even if it seems like you're picking direction is unusual. When you follow the alternate picking pattern, you put more emphasis on the pulse, which makes for good phrasing. Learn this way first. Later, if you want to get into more of a speed picking thing with sweep and economy picking, you can make that a part of your playing style. For reading notation, alternate picking makes the most sense. William Leavitt's Modern Method For Guitar is the best for reading, and once you know a few major scale fingerings, Leavitt's Melodic Rhythms for Guitar is the best. Bugs Bower's book, Rhythms Complete(http://www.samash.com/charles-colin-bugs-bower-rhythms-complete-treble-clef-c1608) is great, too.

 

 

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Follow the pack, be a sheeple.... Ther is something to be said for correct approach... Just as there is for thinking outside the generally accepted parameters of the commonly accepted techniques... Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.

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It sounds to me like you're having a problem with alternate picking. It is a mistake to disregard this. Reading music is going to be partially dependent on muscle memory, and having the pick going in the same direction as your foot tapping is important.

 

 

Foot tapping however, is not important. It is a crutch. An unwelcome one in certain circles. There's lots of great playing out there that happens well enough without it, and no doubt some that happens in spite of it. I've seen it often enough though, someone's foot is tapping and they're playing away, but their foot is out to lunch anyway. If you need help with the pulse, better to get a metronome.

 

biggrin.gif Go ahead and post vids of Al Di Meola tapping away with his foot, working syncopations off of it. That's a specific instance where it may be of benefit. Pretty much any free body part will work for that...and I've little doubt that he could do the same holding still.

 

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I don't trust anyone that doesn't tap their foot... Just saying...

 

Well then we're square. I don't trust green hobgoblins. :D

 

How 'bout this? If it's, oh say, "The Theme From Hawaii 5 O", loud drums banging away, and it still seems useful or necessary to tap a foot-go ahead.

 

If it's a Bach Suite, or an audition for the Guarnerius String Quartet and you want the job...nail it to the floor. Tap your pinky toe, max. :cop:

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Well then we're square. I don't trust green hobgoblins. :D

 

 

 

How 'bout this? If it's, oh say, "The Theme From Hawaii 5 O", loud drums banging away, and it still seems useful or necessary to tap a foot-go ahead.

 

 

 

If it's a Bach Suite, or an audition for the Guarnerius String Quartet and you want the job...nail it to the floor. Tap your pinky toe, max. :cop:

 

 

 

Or perhaps this? A moving, spirited tribal rhythm supporting a modern, live improvisation loosely based on EDM and a touch of traditional Rastafarian and I'm all over the stage, dancing as I play djembe? I'll do more than tap a toe and the groove will mow you down even when it's so softly played you can only feel it, not hear it... Yet capable, with a little dumb luck, of keeping the back of the guitar at the lower bout 1/2 inch from the mic through several takes in a studio without moving let alone tapping the smallest extremity... It's all relative to the performance and the requirements of the moment. In my admittedly limited personal observances it seems professionals adapt to the situation, remain open to communication, refrain from entertaining personal ego in supportive roles, and most importantly, find a way to own each note and imbue said intervals with the passion that breathes life into each phrase... Ymmv.

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Or perhaps this? A moving, spirited tribal rhythm supporting a modern, live improvisation loosely based on EDM and a touch of traditional Rastafarian and I'm all over the stage, dancing as I play djembe? I'll do more than tap a toe and the groove will mow you down even when it's so softly played you can only feel it, not hear it... Yet capable, with a little dumb luck, of keeping the back of the guitar at the lower bout 1/2 inch from the mic through several takes in a studio without moving let alone tapping the smallest extremity... It's all relative to the performance and the requirements of the moment. In my admittedly limited personal observances it seems professionals adapt to the situation, remain open to communication, refrain from entertaining personal ego in supportive roles, and most importantly, find a way to own each note and imbue said intervals with the passion that breathes life into each phrase... Ymmv.

 

I agree. I wouldn't have asked James Brown to hold still. Or Little Richard. Or David Lee Roth.

 

It Is very much in the name of remaining open to communication and refraining from entertaining personal ego that makes it wise to refrain from tapping one's foot when one is sitting in front of a conductor, or playing in an ensemble that isn't locked to a beat. Players in a quartet may move quite a bit even though they're sitting. And I've known some 1rst violinists to give a little stomp once in a while. But it is very uncommon indeed to see someone's foot tapping away. And that is for a reason.

 

More to the point though. The OP (who hasn't been back) is learning to read. It is not likely to be useful to have a foot tapping when he's struggling to basically put it together. It's quite likely his pulse will fluctuate as he encounters areas of difficulty. I've seen it often in students who tap their foot. That's why, in my professional opinion... unless he always wanted to be a player who taps his foot, so he needs to practice tapping his foot, he would be better off with a metronome, or a drum machine.

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Even though his original question had more to do about picking than foot tapping... Again I reiterate at the point of being redundant' date=' there is no one right way. Carry on.[/quote']

 

Because someone presumed he'd be tapping his foot. very-happy.png' alt='16x16_man-very-happy.png.58f4fc7892e8041ddc6575c8d5db3ad6.png' alt='very-happy'>.png'>

 

No one right way, usually. Plenty of wrong ways though. lol.gif

 

And I shall. biggrin.gif

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Even though his original question had more to do about picking than foot tapping... Again I reiterate at the point of being redundant' date=' there is no one right way. Carry on.[/quote']

 

But there are bad answers. Next it's weed and then heroin and then the guy still can't play. :eek:

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