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  • Quieter cymbals?

    I'm interested in something that is not TOO quiet, but something quieter than your average cymbals. Something I can keep on hand in the studio for those times when drummers come in who hit the brass too dang hard... any suggestions?
    **********

    "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

    - George Carlin

    "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

    - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

    "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

    - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

  • #2
    Thin to win. On smaller venue gigs I use a 14" A Zildijan paper thin crash for my main crash and move my med thin 16" Sabian HH crash to my right (that's usually my main crash between the hi hats and rack tom).

    Smaller thinner usually means a bit quieter. Also the quality of the cymbal matters. Lower end cymbals produce a usually higher pitch with less warmth that can translate into loudness.

    If they're hitting that hard, maybe the problem is the one on the drum throne and not the cymbals.

    Hope this helps.
    Missin' Marko46

    "I've never been given more to bear than I can endure."
    Marty Mann

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    • #3
      Thins or thinner won't stand up to any kind of bashing. You can try K dark types that may have less annoying attack transients but they'll still be vulnerable to bashers; and expensive too. There are also the Asian Dream Bliss types that seem to have more white noise content - whatever that means to a microphone. Sabians and Zildjian A and A Customs might be a little too bright for loud guys. Bonham played Paistes and those always blended in Zeppelin. Uh, outta trivia.
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      • #4
        Yeah, thinner cymbals are generally quieter, but that also means they'll break that much easier. If you're using these for a studio situation, there are a lot of questions I'd have about location and what styles of music since there's potential to lose money if some guy is hacking away at your HHX Thin cymbals.

        By and large, drums are just loud, so maybe the solution is a drum shield for recording?

        Are you trying to lower the sound on the recording or lower the volume inside/ outside of your studio?
        Music, music, I hear music
        Fitch Drums - The Blog for the Aspiring Non-Professional Drummer

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        • #5
          I saw a guy use a silicone thing on his snare drum and toms, they're were like Drum Boogers.

          I have never tried them , but should.

          Could you not use these things to also tame a cymbal.
          IDK

          Dendy did an article on Drum Boogers not to long ago, or maybe it was a long time ago, I can not remember.


          http://www.musiciansfriend.com/drums...dampening-gels

          I saw a coffee filter dampening thing on the web.



          _____________________________________
          Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase.

          Join Date: Aug 2001
          Location: N. Adams, MA USA
          Posts as of Jan 10th 2013: 82,617

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          • #6
            Lighter sticks?

            I've only played with one guy who actually cracked a cymbal when I was jamming with him. He was a heavyweight on the sticks. but he wasn't very good technically. A drummer who cant control his dynamics lacks and extremely important skill. I'd take a good aerobic player over a weight lifter any day. Weight lifters focus on power and are more likely to freeze up and stutter then someone who practices for endurance. Of course there's a time for playing hard too, but someone who works out aerobically can usually do both and not get trapped into focusing on power as being better.

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            • #7
              Zildjian's new L80 cymbals may be what you are looking for.
              Sound just like every other cymbal, but at 80% of the volume.

              Keeping the Harmony at Harmony Central

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              • #8
                I would recommend what Dendy posted or if you don't want the expense, lighter sticks or maybe even these?? Regaltip Blasticks, harder than brushes, lighter than sticks, drummer can go full force, but softer hits means softer sounds.
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                • #9
                   
                  "As in drug rehab? or derhh, I crashes muh motorcycle rehab??" (Cross Eyed Mary) *** One of the founding members of The Geezer Guild***

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                  • #10
                    Or Maybe this?? This guy does a great demo and explains well.
                     
                    "As in drug rehab? or derhh, I crashes muh motorcycle rehab??" (Cross Eyed Mary) *** One of the founding members of The Geezer Guild***

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by rayboomboom View Post

                      If they're hitting that hard, maybe the problem is the one on the drum throne and not the cymbals.

                      Undoubtedly. But I don't always have the option of replacing the drummers in the bands I record, or even of insisting they get their stuff together before they come in to record, although I always offer that advice before I book the session.
                      **********

                      "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

                      - George Carlin

                      "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

                      - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                      "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

                      - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by twosticks View Post
                        I would recommend what Dendy posted or if you don't want the expense, lighter sticks or maybe even these?? Regaltip Blasticks, harder than brushes, lighter than sticks, drummer can go full force, but softer hits means softer sounds.
                        I've got sets of Hot Rods and Blasticks on hand, but they usually result in not only lower levels on the brass, but also on the heads too. Invariably, the drummers who hit the cymbals too hard have a tendency to barely tickle the skins, resulting in an unbalanced sound. That's what I'm trying to find solutions and work-arounds for.

                        Obviously a good pro-level drummer knows how to control their own kit balance and dynamics... but not everyone I record always meets that definition, if you know what I mean.

                        **********

                        "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

                        - George Carlin

                        "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

                        - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                        "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

                        - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dendy Jarrett View Post
                          Zildjian's new L80 cymbals may be what you are looking for.
                          Sound just like every other cymbal, but at 80% of the volume.

                          80% might be a bit too much on the attenuation, but that's the general idea I'm after - thank you!

                          BTW, do you know how these compare to the Sabian Xs20 dB Control cymbals?
                          **********

                          "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

                          - George Carlin

                          "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

                          - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                          "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

                          - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            FWIW bashing cymbals is too often the solution. The issues include the resonating latency of a metal plate, the physical dimensions and distances involved, and stick control itself. These parameters have to apex repeatedly at precisely and predetermined intervals or it's not a take. Just the natural voice of a cymbal requires it be struck at / with specific dynamics to produce the desired results. Without going into the math (still a mystery to me) "good" drummers will play in a manner that allows their hands and sticks to be in position for a good swat at a crash for instance. Open, uncluttered parts go a long way in this regard as well as efficient movement. If your right hand has to go from the hihat to a crash a yard away, the last stroke on the hats should leave in the direction of the crash. The more smoothly this is done, the better chance of a good comfortable hit on the crash.

                            Modern genre don't always allow this style of comfortable drumming and the kung fu involved is a very detailed art unto itself.
                            The common solution seems to be to flail away, go for the timing and let the engineer fix the rest.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by FitchFY View Post

                              Are you trying to lower the sound on the recording or lower the volume inside/ outside of your studio?
                              That's an excellent question.

                              I don't really have to be concerned with outside environmental sounds or with disturbing neighbors - acoustical isolation isn't a problem. As a recording engineer, I've dealt with high SPL situations for years, and know how to protect myself, no matter how loud it gets inside the studio.

                              What I'm seeking are ways of lowering the relative volume of the cymbals on recordings compared to the drum heads in situations where the drummer doesn't balance their levels appropriately. Invariably when that situation arises with a rock drummer, it's the cymbals that are too loud while the skins are hit with less authority, enthusiasm and confidence. Even if I bring up the levels of the close mics on the drums, the cymbals are too loud - in part because they spill into the close drum head mics too, but mainly because the two are not being properly balanced by the player. Solo out the overheads or room mics and it's the same issue - too much cymbals, not enough drums.

                              A cymbal that was 50% quieter (on average) would probably work, but not if it means that they're so thin as to be at significant risk of breaking. I can't afford to be replacing cymbals all the time either.
                              **********

                              "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

                              - George Carlin

                              "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

                              - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                              "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

                              - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

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