Members animaltown Posted May 7, 2002 Members Share Posted May 7, 2002 hey guys. first of all let me say how happy i am to discover that there's a drum forum on HC! i've been posting a lot in the effects forum but now i have a question for you cats: i'm a fairly new drummer and i notice that my kick pedal foot gets tired after a little while of playing. i'm wondering if it's normal or if something is *askew* with my technique. as far as i can tell i play "heel-down" and i don't really let the beater bounce back when i play. i sort of leave it touching the drum head until i do the next kick. is this bad practice? thanks in advance for any advice ya'll might have! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fullofcoffee Posted May 7, 2002 Members Share Posted May 7, 2002 As far as the fatigue goes. It is fairly standard for your limbs to feel tired/soar when first starting to play. You are asking your body to do somthing it has never done before. As long as it is just general aches, like after working out, and not sharp pains. You are probably just using muscles you have not used before. Somebody else probably knows more about this then me but thats my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shhpeaceful Posted May 7, 2002 Members Share Posted May 7, 2002 let the beater bounce off the head. It sounds better, and is more natural. It's the same with sticks. You dont make a stroke, and hold the stick down and pull it back up, your body has to work twice as hard: you make the stroke, and let the stick rebound off the head and back into position. Same applies for the bass drum. Your fatigue is simply because you havent been doing it long. There was a post from a week or two ago about this very same topic, I suggest you check it out. Also, I could suggest a good video about both hand and foot technique: Dave Weckl - A Natural Evolution - Volume 1: how to develop technique. Hope this helps ------------------"It's having fun that you grow! oh!" - Tony Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members XsanctifiedX Posted May 7, 2002 Members Share Posted May 7, 2002 I remember when I first started playing my calf muscles would hurt real bad. It took a good two months for that to go away..Heavy bass pedal playing helps your basketball jumping...i'll tell you that!!! Peace. -kevin- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members animaltown Posted May 7, 2002 Author Members Share Posted May 7, 2002 Originally posted by shhpeaceful:let the beater bounce off the head. It sounds better, and is more natural. for some reason when i try to let the beater bounce back it doesn't bounce back evenly, if that makes any sense. should i be rocking my foot back on my heel immediately after i kick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members P1 Posted May 7, 2002 Members Share Posted May 7, 2002 In general, heel down = beater bounces off of head, heel up = beater stays on head. If you're playing heel down and trying to keep the beater buried, that's probably why your foot fatigues quickly. Either switch to heel up or don't bury the beater and see if that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rumblebelly Posted May 7, 2002 Members Share Posted May 7, 2002 Hell, sometimes my leg/foot still gets tired. It's part of being new to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members animaltown Posted May 7, 2002 Author Members Share Posted May 7, 2002 Originally posted by P1:In general, heel down = beater bounces off of head, heel up = beater stays on head. If you're playing heel down and trying to keep the beater buried, that's probably why your foot fatigues quickly. Either switch to heel up or don't bury the beater and see if that helps. so with "heel up" i have to use my whole leg to play the kick? sorry if my questions are lame! i'm actually a guitar/bass player... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rumblebelly Posted May 7, 2002 Members Share Posted May 7, 2002 Originally posted by animaltown: so with "heel up" i have to use my whole leg to play the kick? sorry if my questions are lame! i'm actually a guitar/bass player... No, you don't have to. I tend to push downwith my leg, kinda like pedaling a bike. However, I've seen guys tap the pedalboard with their toes like ballerinas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted May 7, 2002 Moderators Share Posted May 7, 2002 Originally posted by animaltown: for some reason when i try to let the beater bounce back it doesn't bounce back evenly, if that makes any sense. should i be rocking my foot back on my heel immediately after i kick? You must learn to do this now, before you get used the habit of "burying" the beater. When I began playing drums no one was there to tell me about letting the beater rebound and so I developed a horrible kick drum technique. I am still re-training myself and it has been a whole lot of work to learn to let it bounce. So, please, learn from my mistake and work on not "burying" ther beater. You don't need to rock your foot back. Just let it come back by itself. Basically you need to ease up the pressure your are using to move the beater forward before it hit the head. Think of it this way: you're dribbling a basketball, not hammering a nail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mckelly Posted May 7, 2002 Members Share Posted May 7, 2002 Don't play heal down! Some drummers prefer it, but it is really weak. If you play heal up, you then have the ability to utilize the pedal in different ways. For example, striking the drum once with your foot placed somewhere towards the middle of the pedal, then letting the beater rebound as you slide your toe towards the front of the pedal. This allows you to place faster doubles and tripples with very little effort. Work on this technique and you won't get tired. -MCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members animaltown Posted May 7, 2002 Author Members Share Posted May 7, 2002 hmm, so many different answers! i think i like the sound of "heel-down" better but then again what do i know? playing "heel-up" seems like so much more work because you have to lift your whole leg, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rumblebelly Posted May 7, 2002 Members Share Posted May 7, 2002 Originally posted by animaltown:hmm, so many different answers! i think i like the sound of "heel-down" better but then again what do i know? playing "heel-up" seems like so much more work because you have to lift your whole leg, no? Okay, okay...get good at both. You'll be a better drummer if you do. It'll give you more flexibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dawgfish Posted May 7, 2002 Members Share Posted May 7, 2002 Heel up!!! Practice, practice, practice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted May 7, 2002 Moderators Share Posted May 7, 2002 Heel up, heel down... whatever... Play either, or play both (even within the same song!) The fact is that it really doesn't matter which you prefer, because there are excellent players that use both/either technique. What does matter is that you let the beater rebound, and that at all costs you avoid tension in your leg, ankle, or foot. [This message has been edited by Actionsquid (edited May 07, 2002).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members animaltown Posted May 8, 2002 Author Members Share Posted May 8, 2002 Originally posted by Actionsquid:What does matter is that you let the beater rebound, and that at all costs you avoid tension in your leg, ankle, or foot. thanks, Actionsquid! i'm assuming that the beater doesn't really rebound if i'm playing "heel-up", am i right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shhpeaceful Posted May 9, 2002 Members Share Posted May 9, 2002 Originally posted by animaltown: for some reason when i try to let the beater bounce back it doesn't bounce back evenly, if that makes any sense. should i be rocking my foot back on my heel immediately after i kick? I went down to my kit and sat there for a few minutres examining how I play the pedal. Playing heel-down, I make the stroke, and my foot floats on the pedal. I noticed that the pedal does not return the position that it's in when my foot is on it, so there's always a little pressure going on the pedal. my foot dosent change posistion on the pedal, only sliding forward a little after multiple strokes, there isnt much i can do to stop this, short of putting a traction grip on the pedal. The beater bounces off of the head, and the foot moves with the natural rocking motion of the pedal (it's on a spring, after all!) I've learned to control the pedal, and never have to think about making strokes, and can execute a steady stream of notes this way. I WOULD STRESS LEARNING BOTH HEEL UP AND DOWN TECHNIQUES. I use both. for some rhythms (like a 16th note before a quarter "ba-bump" etc) I use heel up for the first note, and heel down for the second. This is related to heel-toe, rocking motion, whatever people like to call it. sometimes, i'll play upbeat 8th notes with the heel up. It is generally accepted that heel up will give you more volume, heel down will let you play more sensitively. ------------------"It's having fun that you grow! oh!" - Tony Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members animaltown Posted May 9, 2002 Author Members Share Posted May 9, 2002 thanks, shh, for the super-informative post, i really appreciate it. i think i understand what you are getting at and i have noticed that heel-up does give me more power and volume. is it general consensus that "burying the beater" when playing heel-down is a bad idea? i quite like the sound and the feel i get from doing it this way... tony williams is my favorite drummer by the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LUCKY_7 Posted May 9, 2002 Members Share Posted May 9, 2002 If you are having muscle problems in your legs and feet make shure your sitting corectly..Your thighs should be level or close to level with the ground..Make it a point to sit up straight too..Good habbits in the begining help in the long run. http://www.mp3.com/robrussell Lucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted May 9, 2002 Moderators Share Posted May 9, 2002 Originally posted by animaltown:is it general consensus that "burying the beater" when playing heel-down is a bad idea? i quite like the sound and the feel i get from doing it this way... It's a general consensus that it's bad to "bury" it either heel up or heel down. The problem is that when you do this, you are preventing the kick drum head from resonating and also losing the rebound. So, you get a flatter, harsher sound and less smooth action from the pedal. You can get away with burying it for a lot of stuff, especially rock/punk, but for cases where you need more finesse, it's a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members animaltown Posted August 10, 2002 Author Members Share Posted August 10, 2002 hello drummers, i'm back with more kick questions! so i've been working on my "heel down" technique and trying to get the beater to bounce back naturally but there's one thing i'm still not totally clear on. should the ball of my foot (and toes) leave the pedal when the beater is coming back or should my whole foot stay on the pedal? maybe a better way to phrase it would be should my foot come up faster than the pedal springs back or should i let the pedal push it back up? know what i mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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